BeebSID

for bbc micro/electron hardware, peripherals & programming issues (NOT emulators!)
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SarahWalker
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Re: BeebSID

Post by SarahWalker » Wed Jan 27, 2010 10:39 pm

MartinB wrote:Thanks for that Tom. How much CPU time on average would you guess is used up supporting three voices at 50Hz then? If it's not excessive, is the in-game music that retro_junkie referred to feasible if the music data can be stashed somewhere?
A normal C64 game tune will almost certainly not exceed 10% CPU time, and probably won't exceed 5% (it's a C64 - it's not got much CPU!). Something like Last Ninja might not be a bad one to do, as it's written for the Electron and hence has loads of spare CPU time on the Beeb.

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Kecske Bak
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Re: BeebSID

Post by Kecske Bak » Thu Jan 28, 2010 4:39 pm

MartinB wrote:I had a play with stickers but I'm not convinced that Kecske Bak will like them....
I can certainly give you some ideas as to where you can stick them...

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iomanoid
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Re: BeebSID

Post by iomanoid » Fri Jan 29, 2010 7:10 pm

Big sloppy wet kiss, sheep, and a packet of Horlicks tablets to the first person who can get the song from CYBERNOID II on the C64 playing on BeebSID correctly...
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Re: BeebSID

Post by SarahWalker » Fri Jan 29, 2010 7:25 pm

It's on the nu menu disc, as attached. This is the disc shown at last RCM - as with the previous it needs a Master 128.
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iomanoid
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Re: BeebSID

Post by iomanoid » Fri Jan 29, 2010 7:37 pm

NoooooOOOOOOOoooooooo.... what do I have to do to make it work on a (fully sexed up to the max) model B?
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ukretrogamer
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Re: BeebSID

Post by ukretrogamer » Fri Jan 29, 2010 7:55 pm

iomanoid wrote:...and a packet of Horlicks tablets to the first person...
So *YOU* are the one hoarding the Holicks tablets...

No wonder I haven't seen them at the chemist in the last 10 years!

How many cases do you have stashed away? Gimme, Gimme...

I used to LOVE them and would possibly kill to get my hands on a few rolls!

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iomanoid
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Re: BeebSID

Post by iomanoid » Fri Jan 29, 2010 7:57 pm

Well, now you know what to do... bloodshed not (strictly) necessary... ;)
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Re: BeebSID

Post by ukretrogamer » Fri Jan 29, 2010 7:57 pm

iomanoid wrote:NoooooOOOOOOOoooooooo.... what do I have to do to make it work on a (fully sexed up to the max) model B?
Yeah. I'm wondering that too... I wouldn't give any Horlicks tablets away but I'd let someone have a sheep (had I got one) in exchange for a BBC-B compatible SID demo!

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Re: BeebSID

Post by iomanoid » Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:00 pm

Lots of B-compatible SID demos posted already.

I'm just lusty and wet for Cybernoid II...
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ukretrogamer
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Re: BeebSID

Post by ukretrogamer » Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:01 pm

Um...

I have a SID of the tune, but neither the skill nor Horlicks to make it work on the BeebSID.

Anyone?...
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Last edited by ukretrogamer on Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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iomanoid
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Re: BeebSID

Post by iomanoid » Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:03 pm

That's what I'm sayin', dude :D

Gives the SID a damn good workout that one, too... plus, come on - it's almost as iconic as the music from R-Type... *wipes tear from eye*
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Re: BeebSID

Post by ukretrogamer » Fri Jan 29, 2010 8:10 pm

What we really need is a SID player application (Beeb compatible, please?) that lists the .SID files and plays them.

I wish I could program in assembler. I wrote Z80 code in the 80s. I cracked "fast loaders", like those used on Daley Thompson's Decathlon - purely to increase my knowledge and for personal backup purposes! :wink:

I never owned a C64 or Acorn then, so never got to code 6502. By the time the ST & Amiga came around, I figured 16-bit assembler looked like too much trouble to re-learn and moved on to other things...

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MartinB
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Re: BeebSID

Post by MartinB » Sat Jan 30, 2010 12:03 am

I am turning my attention to BeebSID utilities and I'm sure that whenever Tom has time to spare he will be chipping in too. There's plenty of the other BeebSID buyers that are talented programmers and/or SID musical experts too (SwiftSID maybe? :wink:) so once we all get settled in with our new gadgets there'll be lots of input.

The intention was always to host the development of the hardware here on STH and then to ship across to Retrosoftware since the next phase in BeebSID's story is all about the software. Is everyone on here a member over at RS and is everyone happy that we make that move?

Any thoughts Samwise ? (e.g. Does this thread get moved/locked/linked?)

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iomanoid
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Re: BeebSID

Post by iomanoid » Sat Jan 30, 2010 12:08 am

No no no don't ship across, I'm not on that forum and I seriously can't cope with too many forums in my life, I'm only on two as it is (and this one was only because Dave begged me :lol:)

I'm conducting my own experiments into the possibilities of BeebSID MIDI control but it's going to take at least half a stretch, so no breath-holding please. Once this is achieved it'll surely be shared with the community though, I'm not going to just sit on it and become magnificently purple - well, at least not for long ;)

For now I'm as happy as a pig in shit if someone just does that Cybernoid II conversion for an olde worlde B, come on lads - you know it makes sense :D
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Samwise
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Re: BeebSID

Post by Samwise » Sat Jan 30, 2010 1:12 am

Martin,

It's yours and Tom's project so it's really up to you, in my opinion. Personally, I think there's a benefit to keeping a single up-to-date page on the wiki with the latest information and downloads because you can easily replace obsolete information, which is harder to do in a forum-type setting. But that does require someone maintains it.

The wiki is currently only available at Retro Software, but as that has it's own forum it might be considered a bit of an odd fit to continue to manage the project in the forum here.

If you want this STH topic locked, we can certainly do it.

If it weren't very tricky, I'd offer to migrate this topic between forums - but with different people registered with different names. Bleugh. I'm drunk and would rather not consider that option.

Sam.

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iomanoid
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Re: BeebSID

Post by iomanoid » Sat Jan 30, 2010 1:23 am

If, then I'd ask to at least not lock this thread. Or I couldnae post my glory look.

And my glory smells so good....
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Re: BeebSID

Post by iomanoid » Sat Jan 30, 2010 1:20 pm

I found this strangely amusing: :lol:

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sorvad
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Re: BeebSID

Post by sorvad » Sat Jan 30, 2010 6:01 pm

MartinB wrote:There's plenty of the other BeebSID buyers that are talented programmers and/or SID musical experts too (SwiftSID maybe? :wink:)
We could do with a BeebSid expansion for BeebEm etc. to make Swift more useful here. Would be nice if some sort of "Plug-in" interface could be developed for BeebEm/B-Em for the 1Mhz Bus. Then people could just write additional 1Mhz bus devices and drop them in a plug-in folder without having to re-compile the emulator. If that already exists I feel foolish :oops: Doesn't does it ?

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billcarr2005
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Re: BeebSID

Post by billcarr2005 » Sun Jan 31, 2010 12:16 am

iomanoid wrote:Lots of B-compatible SID demos posted already.

I'm just lusty and wet for Cybernoid II...
*/CYBP to run!

Had lots to alter from the original SID to get this one working happily! :D
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Re: BeebSID

Post by iomanoid » Sun Jan 31, 2010 12:24 am

WoWzAtRoN :shock:

I can't listen to it now because it's after curfew. It's pencilled in for a priority early start tomorrow though - if it works, you get a Scooby Snack for sure :D
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Re: BeebSID

Post by iomanoid » Sun Jan 31, 2010 11:59 am

billcarr2005 wrote:
iomanoid wrote:Lots of B-compatible SID demos posted already.

I'm just lusty and wet for Cybernoid II...
*/CYBP to run!

Had lots to alter from the original SID to get this one working happily! :D
Right, I've had it loop for a little while now :D

That's just beautiful. Hearing that coming out of a Beeb is just... wrong, in such a good way :lol:

It sounds almost right. There's one brief synth lead line that seems to be dropped a bit in volume from what it should be... and the explosion heralding the start of the main theme is slightly off. I'll have to check with a different SID though to make sure it's not just chip characteristics.

I'm really curious, when you say you had to alter a lot to get it to work, could you elaborate further...?
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MartinB
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Re: BeebSID

Post by MartinB » Sun Jan 31, 2010 12:11 pm

When Tom did that first proper Beeb demo for me, it mostly sounded fine but there were odd sections that were out of tune :?. Tom then said that he had missed some address changes (I think?) and after that it was perfect.

Seems it's not necessarily all or nothing, there can be musical 'defects' if something is missed.

Martin

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Re: BeebSID

Post by billcarr2005 » Sun Jan 31, 2010 2:03 pm

iomanoid wrote:
It sounds almost right. There's one brief synth lead line that seems to be dropped a bit in volume from what it should be... and the explosion heralding the start of the main theme is slightly off. I'll have to check with a different SID though to make sure it's not just chip characteristics.

I'm really curious, when you say you had to alter a lot to get it to work, could you elaborate further...?
The SID file runs from the starting memory of A600, so i had to replace all mention of A6?? through to B7?? with something else, in this case i chose 16?? to 20??
Using SIDedit to display the assembly, and hexedit to change the file, i went through the code. The references to D4?? also needed changing to FC??.
There was also some code that read from 1F01,Y and 1F02,Y then put the value so it could be "index"? read from (&46),Y so the values there needed altering.
So when this still wasn't working correctly (no main chord, just the backing channels), I checked over the master compatible file on Tom's disk, and discovered he wasn't changing anything except some of the references to D4?? to FC??, presumably (wrong?) because he can load into the master's higher memory/change on the fly from AF??
The references to D418 remained in the Tom's SID on the Master disk, because this is changed during the interrupt from the MENU program? Also... on some (1?) of the changes to FC?? Tom JSRs to 0140, which changes FC?? but also allows for a change to 74?? which is then used to change the volume in the interrupt, so perhaps this is what i'm missing?
Apologies if this is clear as mud :oops:
If you extract both files from the SSD, you'll be able to compare/contrast what is different.

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billcarr2005
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Re: BeebSID

Post by billcarr2005 » Sun Feb 07, 2010 2:50 am

I cobbled together a timer display & pause (SPACE) and resume (RETURN) on this one!
*/THRUSTP
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name: Thrust
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released: 1986 Firebird
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sorvad
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Re: BeebSID

Post by sorvad » Sun Feb 07, 2010 9:41 am

Grrr.... My beebem won't do sound anymore, everythings on that should be.... would love to try this.... back later when fixed :) Thanks for the file though :)

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billcarr2005
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Re: BeebSID

Post by billcarr2005 » Sun Feb 07, 2010 2:43 pm

sorvad wrote:Grrr.... My beebem won't do sound anymore, everythings on that should be.... would love to try this.... back later when fixed :) Thanks for the file though :)
To save me plugging my BBC & BeebSID in, i'm using a beta version of B-em (thanks Tom!) to check that they're working...

*/CHRDNP
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name: Chordian
author: Jens-Christian Huus
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sorvad
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Re: BeebSID

Post by sorvad » Sun Feb 07, 2010 8:06 pm

Yes, can't run on BeebEm anyway , lol, wasn't thinking right. Please ignore. Is that B-Em beta on Toms site ?

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Re: BeebSID

Post by elaverick » Tue Feb 09, 2010 12:43 pm

Apologies if this has already been posted (don't think it has tho) but I've just spotted this site selling SIDs - http://bits.rewind-gaming.co.uk/commodo ... re=default

£16.99, not sure how that compares price wise but it's certainly cheaper than slaughtering a C64 from eBay at the moment.

Just out of interest is anyone still building the boards (I'm kinda assuming that most peeps that wanted one have bagged one already) and what kind of price are they built?

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Re: BeebSID

Post by MurrayCakaMuzer » Tue Feb 09, 2010 1:23 pm

I still need to get around to assembling the parts for mine :p

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Re: BeebSID

Post by andyt31 » Tue Feb 09, 2010 4:55 pm

Still not ordered the parts for mine. Must do that soon.

So busy with other stuff...
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