SASI HDD

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Aktomairel2012
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SASI HDD

Post by Aktomairel2012 » Sun Dec 21, 2008 12:51 pm

I have 2 SASI ( ST-506) hdd with Econet level-3 partitons.
But my Econet clock no working and i no able to access to files only to ADFS prat of disk localy.
Is it any way connect HDD to PC via ST-506 HDD controller and make disk dump for access to it in BeebEm or ADFS explorer or some way extract files to PC as file file.inf format for preserver soft on this hdd ?
I want extract all files from econet part of disk to PC then reformat HDD as ADFS only and back to it all files from PC.

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SarahWalker
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Re: SASI HDD

Post by SarahWalker » Sun Dec 21, 2008 6:39 pm

I've written a DOS tool which will dump an entire hard disk to a file. Don't know if it will work for ST-506 drives (should do, but I've only tried IDE) but if it works you would be able to load the image into Beebem or something, and there would probably be some way to extract the files from it. I can send you this if it would be helpful?

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retroclinic
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Re: SASI HDD

Post by retroclinic » Sun Dec 21, 2008 10:23 pm

Hi.

What is wrong with your Econet Clock? They're a simple circuit, maybe you can get that working to copy the files off?

Mark.

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Aktomairel2012
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Re: SASI HDD

Post by Aktomairel2012 » Sun Feb 08, 2009 6:51 pm

Is it way access to HDD Eonet level-3 partition from local Master-128 ?
I mean get access to all files stored on other then ADFS part of winchester.
I have program XFER for conect BBC to PC
I want recover all files stored on HDD but need run Econet FS to access files.
Is exist some kind of ROM or Econet emulator thet alowe see all files from all Econet users as normal ADFS dir structure ?
on HDD I have many my and old soft.
For exaple old Acorn games thet no present on this site.
So i need or trasfer files as game.inf formmat or as HDD image for use with beebem.

irrelevant

Re: SASI HDD

Post by irrelevant » Sat Mar 21, 2009 11:16 pm

Did you ever sort this out?

Because many years ago I wrote a routine to scan a L3 hard disc and backup all the files from it, without requiring the server to be running, or even accessible..

I think I still have a copy on my fileserver, but it's not currently set up. Should be getting that back up in the next week or so, however, having just made a space for it, so I'll have a look for it then. If I am remembering right, it writes out floppies that can then be restored back onto new drive..

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Aktomairel2012
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Re: SASI HDD

Post by Aktomairel2012 » Sat Apr 18, 2009 7:21 pm

As I not wrong Linux can mount ADFS partitions
But problem to find PC controller for ST-506
I find some for PC ISA
Also I find strange device adapter USB<>ISA
I want backup all files from 2 Econet Level-3 HDD to PC then reformat HDD as ADFS only and back transfer files from PC or copy file to IDE CF-Card.
I have problems with XFER on my PC notebook broken COM-1 port.
Is exist new ideas about PC<>BBC file transfer of via parallel link UserPort <> PC EPP ( bidirectional parallel printer port) or device RS ( domino) <> USB.
If I recover all my collection from floppy and 2 HDD I can send disk images to site.
I can have rare ROM images and old games.
Our Ukrainian Ministry of education in 1985 get some BBC model B and Master-128 for put as test in Kiev school for teach informatics.
Image my favorite game Castle Quest
ImageBBC Buggy robot
Image our program for control electric heating floor at office
ImageMaster-128 with IDE CF-Card adapter
Image CF-CARD on Master-128
ImageMy Econet HDD
ImageI want recover them
ImageMy BBC books
Image
Image

irrelevant

Re: SASI HDD

Post by irrelevant » Mon Apr 20, 2009 11:20 am

Aktomairel2012 wrote:As I not wrong Linux can mount ADFS partitions
But problem to find PC controller for ST-506
I find some for PC ISA
Very old PC hard discs were ST506 - I'm talking 8086 and 80286 era .. if you can find a machine that old, you might be able to take out the controller card and put it in a later machine. They will still only be ISA, though.

It's quite likely however that the drive will not work (or rather, will not read existing data) with a different controller than it was already using. This is because ST506 is an /analogue/ interface, not digital. You would be better keeping the adaptec ST506 adapter that the drive is currently connected to, and connecting to the SASI port on the other side of it. Finding an old enough SCSI card that still speaks the older SASI protocols is another matter...
I want backup all files from 2 Econet Level-3 HDD to PC then reformat HDD as ADFS only and back transfer files from PC or copy file to IDE CF-Card.
If they still work attached to a Beeb, my prog would do it. Sorry, I've still not checked if I've still got it, but I've seen a folder that might have it in... I did remember, though, that it takes a LOT of memory for the free space map, and therefore requires a ARM co-processor...
I have problems with XFER on my PC notebook broken COM-1 port.
Is exist new ideas about PC<>BBC file transfer of via parallel link UserPort <> PC EPP ( bidirectional parallel printer port) or device RS ( domino) <> USB.
If I recover all my collection from floppy and 2 HDD I can send disk images to site.
I believe that standard PC USB-Serial port adapters will work with XFER, but I've never used it so can't guarantee tat.
I can have rare ROM images and old games.
Our Ukrainian Ministry of education in 1985 get some BBC model B and Master-128 for put as test in Kiev school for teach informatics.
It's always good to see new old stuff ! :D

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regregex
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Re: SASI HDD

Post by regregex » Mon Apr 20, 2009 9:52 pm

Aktomairel2012 wrote:I have problems with XFER on my PC notebook broken COM-1 port.
Is exist new ideas about PC<>BBC file transfer of via parallel link UserPort <> PC EPP ( bidirectional parallel printer port) or device RS ( domino) <> USB.
JK sells a 65Link parallel cable and software here. But a USB serial interface works OK with Xfer.
Our Ukrainian Ministry of education in 1985 get some BBC model B and Master-128 for put as test in Kiev school for teach informatics.
Nice pics, hadn't seen Cyrillic keyboarded Masters before :)

--Greg

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Aktomairel2012
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Re: SASI HDD

Post by Aktomairel2012 » Sat Aug 08, 2009 12:11 pm

Is it way transfer econet level-3 HDD patrtition to PC for use disk image with BeebEm ?
Is it way on BBC emulate econet server to local access to all files of all users without run econet network ?

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retroclinic
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Re: SASI HDD

Post by retroclinic » Sat Aug 08, 2009 1:04 pm

Aktomairel2012 wrote:Is it way transfer econet level-3 HDD patrtition to PC for use disk image with BeebEm ?
Hi. Watch this space...I beleive that JW is working on a version of the CF utilites that will backuip and restore an Econet L3 partition.

Mark.

irrelevant

Re: SASI HDD

Post by irrelevant » Sat Aug 08, 2009 1:06 pm

I believe that ADFS Explorer can transfer a hard disc attached to a Beebto a PC image file via XFER. It rather depends on how it determines the size of the drive, however. If it uses the drive size stored in the first sector, then it will only get the ADFS part of the drive. If it actually interrogates the drive to find the size, then it will get the L3 bit as well. It won't recoognise any files in the L3 bit, but at least you could load the image into BeebEm and run an emulated econet server.

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retroclinic
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Re: SASI HDD

Post by retroclinic » Sat Aug 08, 2009 1:11 pm

irrelevant wrote:If it uses the drive size stored in the first sector, then it will only get the ADFS part of the drive.
The current version 1.01 reads the partition sizes, and will only backup (and restore) the main ADFS partitions.

Mark.

irrelevant

Re: SASI HDD

Post by irrelevant » Sat Aug 08, 2009 1:26 pm

retroclinic wrote:The current version 1.01 reads the partition sizes, and will only backup (and restore) the main ADFS partitions.
Same as the GoMMC utilities, then ...

Looks like I'm going to find the time to write one too, as I've got a smiliar requirement: I want to backup the filestore E20s I just got, prior to actually trying to run them.

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Re: SASI HDD

Post by BeebMaster » Sun Aug 09, 2009 4:39 pm

Aktomairel2012 wrote:Is it way transfer econet level-3 HDD patrtition to PC for use disk image with BeebEm ?
Is it way on BBC emulate econet server to local access to all files of all users without run econet network ?
Do you have more than 1 BBC micro? If so, you could use one BBC to connect the Winchester disc to and run this computer as the Econet file server, and copy the files using the other machine with the built-in CF card adapter.

You would still need a clock, but I'm sure someone could lend you one for a while. For a small network just to do this specific job, you would get away with connecting the two BBCs together via the clock.

You would need a 6502 second processor for the file server, this might be a problem if you haven't got one, but again somebody might lend you a cheese wedge.
Image

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Re: SASI HDD

Post by BeebMaster » Sun Aug 09, 2009 4:46 pm

irrelevant wrote: Looks like I'm going to find the time to write one too, as I've got a smiliar requirement: I want to backup the filestore E20s I just got, prior to actually trying to run them.
Sometimes it's easier to backup from Beeb to Beeb, and then to something more modern. I think it would be as well to connect the E20 to an E01 and use that as a file server to pick off all the files using another Beeb (or even your A5000). You are going to need to have the E20 powered up and running to get the files off it, however it's done.
Image

irrelevant

Re: SASI HDD

Post by irrelevant » Sun Aug 09, 2009 5:42 pm

BeebMaster wrote:Sometimes it's easier to backup from Beeb to Beeb, and then to something more modern. I think it would be as well to connect the E20 to an E01 and use that as a file server to pick off all the files using another Beeb (or even your A5000). You are going to need to have the E20 powered up and running to get the files off it, however it's done.
Well I know that it'll need powering up, but I'd rather take a copy before I let anything try to write to the disc.. And it means I'm not reliant on the E01 working as well as the E20..

Since it's a 1MHz bus, I was thinking of just pluging it into a Master, and image the disc to a file on the GoMMC. Then I can just take the MMC card over and plug it into a PC to get it off. Unfortunately the standard GoMMC utility to transfer a harddisc uses the ADFS free space map to determine the exent of the drive, so I can't use it.

(As the A5000 isn't talking to the beebs at the moment, I can't just open a file over the network, either.)

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Re: SASI HDD

Post by BeebMaster » Mon Aug 10, 2009 10:45 pm

The disc in my E20 is full of errors. It doesn't format properly using the FileStore formatter, which is a curious routine because it has to do the formatting over the Econet by using the Econet JSR & Poke to get the code into the FileStore, then wait a bit till the FileStore has finished, but I usually end up with timeout errors.

The routine doesn't have a defect handling routine for the Rodimes inside the E20 - there is a line somewhere along the lines of

REM Put disc error routine here

which isn't very helpful! Next time I can get at the E20 I want to connect it to a Master and format it with Superform and see if that deals with the defects. When I have it running on the Econet, I just get Disc fault errors all the time, so it's in need of some attention.
Image

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Aktomairel2012
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Re: SASI HDD

Post by Aktomairel2012 » Tue May 15, 2018 5:34 am

Hi.
This me from Kiev, Ukraine again.
I have program afsfiler but I need backup My Econet Level 3 Winchester 130 to PC.
So I need make some "mixture of a Bulldog with a Rhinoceros".
I mean look sources of afsfiler and xfer and make program for read files from AFS0 partiiton and over RS232 send to PC where save for backup like in adfsexplorer.
Do You have any ideas ?
I lost my clock, I have only Master 128 and 2 Winchester 130 sasi drives.
Or I need making very crazy harкdkor and soldering 1Mhz Bus controller for Raspberry Pi or USB to dump all hdd sectors to pc.
sincerely Yours Acorn BBC user from a distant independent Ukraine
Image

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Re: SASI HDD

Post by dominicbeesley » Thu May 17, 2018 9:26 am

I'm afraid I've not done much with SCSI disks. Are you a programmer? Maybe a BASIC program using http://beebwiki.mdfs.net/OSWORD_%2672 and sending the results over the serial port to a PC might be worth a try?

I don't know if Phil (Myelin) has any of his serial port cards available - one of these may help as it allows faster serial transfers and tends to not lose data around RTS/CTS handling

It's very interesting to see an Acorn machine with a Cyrillic keyboard. I wonder how many of these are still working? Were there many in use in Ukraine?

D

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Re: SASI HDD

Post by DutchAcorn » Thu May 17, 2018 10:19 am

Just a thought; would it be possible to use UPURS HostFS to back up the ADFS files? Don’t know if the Master will let you copy files across filesystems...
Paul

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