Recommended BBC Model B upgrades
- JasonStonier
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Recommended BBC Model B upgrades
I'm sure this has been asked before, but it would be really useful to me to get some views.
Having failed to find my childhood BBC in my folks' loft, I bought one on eBay this week. Works fine apart from the obvious blue smoke issue I was expecting. It's a revision 7 motherboard with no added ROMs (just BASIC). I have some 5.25 drives around from the BBCFDC project and my old beeb had an Acorn (I think) DFS ROM but not sure it's worth tracking one down for this. I'll be using it for nostalgia games and revisiting the programs I wrote as a kid once I find the disks and rip them with the BBCFDC,
One of my great joys is hardware hacking so I'd love some recommendations on what to do with the Beeb. My intentions so far:
1) Re-cap the power supply
2) Cheap SD card hardware from ctorwy31 on eBay
3) Pi co-pro
4) Custom walnut "Viglen" type case to separate the keyboard and main board
5) RGB-Scart cable
Anything else that is cool and worth doing?
Thanks.
Having failed to find my childhood BBC in my folks' loft, I bought one on eBay this week. Works fine apart from the obvious blue smoke issue I was expecting. It's a revision 7 motherboard with no added ROMs (just BASIC). I have some 5.25 drives around from the BBCFDC project and my old beeb had an Acorn (I think) DFS ROM but not sure it's worth tracking one down for this. I'll be using it for nostalgia games and revisiting the programs I wrote as a kid once I find the disks and rip them with the BBCFDC,
One of my great joys is hardware hacking so I'd love some recommendations on what to do with the Beeb. My intentions so far:
1) Re-cap the power supply
2) Cheap SD card hardware from ctorwy31 on eBay
3) Pi co-pro
4) Custom walnut "Viglen" type case to separate the keyboard and main board
5) RGB-Scart cable
Anything else that is cool and worth doing?
Thanks.
Re: Recommended BBC Model B upgrades
Sideways RAM is cheap and easy although not very well supported.
Audio socket and cable from SCART.
Audio socket and cable from SCART.
- flaxcottage
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Re: Recommended BBC Model B upgrades
The BooBip SWR and EEPROM boards are a 'must' for a Beeb. You will need a disc interface, too, even with a turboSD card device, to get stuff from floppies 'for real'. I'd recommend a 1770 disk interface as it works better with the SWR having the SWR utilities already built in. And don't forget a GOTEK drive.
There are lots of goodies to add to a Beeb nowadays. The mind boggles!
There are lots of goodies to add to a Beeb nowadays. The mind boggles!

- JasonStonier
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Re: Recommended BBC Model B upgrades
Cool, so
6) BooBip SWR
7) 1770 DFS ROM
I do like the Gotek flash floppys, but for use as a 'jukebox' is there any significant advantage over a cheap turboSD module?
6) BooBip SWR
7) 1770 DFS ROM
I do like the Gotek flash floppys, but for use as a 'jukebox' is there any significant advantage over a cheap turboSD module?
Re: Recommended BBC Model B upgrades
Depends what you want to do... getting floppy images onto and off the beeb.mmb on an SD card is a PITA. Copying a floppy image to a USB stick is pretty simple.JasonStonier wrote: ↑Tue Sep 08, 2020 10:21 amI do like the Gotek flash floppys, but for use as a 'jukebox' is there any significant advantage over a cheap turboSD module?
If you want to be loading up new floppy images regularly then the Gotek wins hands down. If you're rarely going to change any disk images then an SD interface is fine.
Re: Recommended BBC Model B upgrades
If you go for Gotek, then you may want to consider upgrading the disk controller if it isn’t already a 1770. Retroclinic can provide an upgrade. Also make sure your DFS version is 2.26.
If you would like hard disk storage then a BeebSCSI is the way to go. Martin B is selling some kit for this. You’ll need ADFS filing system, which BTW is more memory hungry.
If you would like hard disk storage then a BeebSCSI is the way to go. Martin B is selling some kit for this. You’ll need ADFS filing system, which BTW is more memory hungry.
Richard B
Acorn Electrons issue 4 and 6, MRB, Plus 1, AP6, AP5, Pegasus 400, BeebSCSI, Gotek, Raspberry Pi, GoSDC MBE.
BBC B+ 64K (128K upgraded) with Duel OS, Raspberry Pi and Gotek.
Acorn Electrons issue 4 and 6, MRB, Plus 1, AP6, AP5, Pegasus 400, BeebSCSI, Gotek, Raspberry Pi, GoSDC MBE.
BBC B+ 64K (128K upgraded) with Duel OS, Raspberry Pi and Gotek.
Re: Recommended BBC Model B upgrades
He is?Martin B is selling some kit for this.

- BeebMaster
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Re: Recommended BBC Model B upgrades
Ooopppss... I just Paypalled a few grand to "Martin B"...turns out it went to Martin Bormann's Swiss bank account!
Re: Recommended BBC Model B upgrades
Richard B
Acorn Electrons issue 4 and 6, MRB, Plus 1, AP6, AP5, Pegasus 400, BeebSCSI, Gotek, Raspberry Pi, GoSDC MBE.
BBC B+ 64K (128K upgraded) with Duel OS, Raspberry Pi and Gotek.
Acorn Electrons issue 4 and 6, MRB, Plus 1, AP6, AP5, Pegasus 400, BeebSCSI, Gotek, Raspberry Pi, GoSDC MBE.
BBC B+ 64K (128K upgraded) with Duel OS, Raspberry Pi and Gotek.
Re: Recommended BBC Model B upgrades
Further to what Chris said - if you get a bog-standard gotek and flash it yourself, it'll cost you the same as one of the TurboMMC things, and to all intents and purposes can jukebox in exactly the same way using Tricky's menu system. You'll be lacking the OLED display and rotary encoder which you can add later if you so desire (you'd have no trouble doing so as you're handy with a soldering iron, and they'd cost you 6 or 7 quid max on top). The only reason *not* to go the gotek route is if you've not got, and aren't intending to install, a disc interface. Seeing as you are I can't seen why you wouldn'tJasonStonier wrote: ↑Tue Sep 08, 2020 10:21 amCool, so
6) BooBip SWR
7) 1770 DFS ROM
I do like the Gotek flash floppys, but for use as a 'jukebox' is there any significant advantage over a cheap turboSD module?

d.
- JasonStonier
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- JasonStonier
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Re: Recommended BBC Model B upgrades
I would avoid MMC and GOTEK (at the same time) and they will probably not be great together and unless they use SWRAM, will use you memory.
As a games jukebox, GOTEK is slower (same as floppy), but that can be a good thing, as it encourages you to play a bit before moving on - TAPE might be better still, or just join the high-score competition (more a gathering).
EDIT: (at the same time)
As a games jukebox, GOTEK is slower (same as floppy), but that can be a good thing, as it encourages you to play a bit before moving on - TAPE might be better still, or just join the high-score competition (more a gathering).
EDIT: (at the same time)
Last edited by tricky on Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Recommended BBC Model B upgrades
They're all the cheap copy units from ChinaJasonStonier wrote: ↑Tue Sep 08, 2020 5:37 pmGood advice - thanks. Where are you seeing Goteks for around the £20 mark? Or are the cheap copy units from China usable and can be flashed?

E.g.: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/133055672707
Have a read of the flashfloppy wiki:
https://github.com/keirf/FlashFloppy/wiki
d.
- JasonStonier
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- JasonStonier
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Re: Recommended BBC Model B upgrades
I don't know. I've seen a lot of threads both here and on other forums from people struggling to get their Goteks up and running for various systems. It may not be as easy as some people make it out to be.
I've bought a pre-prepared one from Retro Clinic. £45 including all the relevant cables and a USB stick with a ton of software pre-installed. Seems like a fair price to me and I'll take it over a £15 item from China that will take forever to get here and comes from a seller with a very poor feedback record.
Just my two cents. YMMV.
- JasonStonier
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Re: Recommended BBC Model B upgrades
Yeah, I get that totally... but for me, the joy is in getting things working. I know from literally every project I’ve ever done, the moment it’s finished and perfect I lose interest and go onto the next one. So a cheap Gotek that will take months to get working sounds like an awesome prospect to me... 

Re: Recommended BBC Model B upgrades
I've put together 6 or 7 now, and never had one go AWOL on its way from China - admittedly they take anywhere between a week and a month to appear. It's not very tricky if you're reasonably confident with soldering in a pin header and running a little TTL serial dongle, but obviously if you're not that way inclined there are plenty of options. Many of the people protesting about not being able to do it haven't ever tried doing something like that before, and are generally asking for help in all the wrong places. We've successfully talked many people through DIYing it here.
The main point I was making though, is that the units are the self-same ones from China. If you wish to pay for someone to do it for you it's absolutely fine, but if you're confident enough, you can buy one and DIY it for rather less. You may have noticed quite a few of us are all about encouraging people to get their hands dirty under the bonnet

d.
- richardtoohey
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Re: Recommended BBC Model B upgrades
But if you don't fancy building anything, Mark @ Retro Clinic an excellent source!
- JasonStonier
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Re: Recommended BBC Model B upgrades
That's the main source of joy in keeping retro tech alive: dirty hands, esoteric knowledge, fond memories, and a bit of archaeology. There's got to be some point to it, 'cos you're sure as hell not going to impress your kids.
Re: Recommended BBC Model B upgrades
I've been doing Mark @ RetroClinic's cheapo ROM socket upgrades on all my Beebs as it's pretty simple.
http://www.retroclinic.com/acorn/swr/swr.htm
Cuttin' a few tracks and soldering (or sodering if you're American) a few wires and you've got four "native" ROM sockets that take up to 64KB (27512) ROMs instead of 16KB, or three 64KB ROMs and a 32KB SWR.
My problem has been trying to figure out the best combination of ROMs to put in there.
http://www.retroclinic.com/acorn/swr/swr.htm
Cuttin' a few tracks and soldering (or sodering if you're American) a few wires and you've got four "native" ROM sockets that take up to 64KB (27512) ROMs instead of 16KB, or three 64KB ROMs and a 32KB SWR.
My problem has been trying to figure out the best combination of ROMs to put in there.
Brett.
Re: Recommended BBC Model B upgrades
See this thread which covers my deliberations in selecting ROMs. viewtopic.php?f=2&t=18845&p=262961#p262961dsdf323 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 09, 2020 9:17 amI've been doing Mark @ RetroClinic's cheapo ROM socket upgrades on all my Beebs as it's pretty simple.
http://www.retroclinic.com/acorn/swr/swr.htm
Cuttin' a few tracks and soldering (or sodering if you're American) a few wires and you've got four "native" ROM sockets that take up to 64KB (27512) ROMs instead of 16KB, or three 64KB ROMs and a 32KB SWR.
My problem has been trying to figure out the best combination of ROMs to put in there.
You may also have discovered that there is a quirk im Mark's rework instructions which brings the ROMs in in a strange order ... but that is a different discussion and is in a different thread.
Robin
#1 BBC Model B Issue 7 + 1770 DFS + Dual TEAC Floppy
#2 BBC Model B Issue 7 + 8271 DFS + Dual Floppy + Speech
#3 BBC Model B Issue 7 + 8271 DFS + Cumana Single Floppy + PiTubeDirect on KenLowe's Tube Level Shifter
#2 BBC Model B Issue 7 + 8271 DFS + Dual Floppy + Speech
#3 BBC Model B Issue 7 + 8271 DFS + Cumana Single Floppy + PiTubeDirect on KenLowe's Tube Level Shifter
Re: Recommended BBC Model B upgrades
Other possible upgrades:-
BeebZif, nice if you have a hole to the left of the keyboard to fill viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2710, there also a plugin available for purchase on eBay. I bought one to improve the appearance.
Batch IntegraB ROM / RAM Expansion Board for BBC B, sideways RAM and ROM viewtopic.php?f=8&t=17455
Also take a look at the Modern Retro Hardware List for the BBC Micro Master and Acorn Electron https://elminster.github.io/hardware
BeebZif, nice if you have a hole to the left of the keyboard to fill viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2710, there also a plugin available for purchase on eBay. I bought one to improve the appearance.
Batch IntegraB ROM / RAM Expansion Board for BBC B, sideways RAM and ROM viewtopic.php?f=8&t=17455
Also take a look at the Modern Retro Hardware List for the BBC Micro Master and Acorn Electron https://elminster.github.io/hardware
Richard B
Acorn Electrons issue 4 and 6, MRB, Plus 1, AP6, AP5, Pegasus 400, BeebSCSI, Gotek, Raspberry Pi, GoSDC MBE.
BBC B+ 64K (128K upgraded) with Duel OS, Raspberry Pi and Gotek.
Acorn Electrons issue 4 and 6, MRB, Plus 1, AP6, AP5, Pegasus 400, BeebSCSI, Gotek, Raspberry Pi, GoSDC MBE.
BBC B+ 64K (128K upgraded) with Duel OS, Raspberry Pi and Gotek.
- JasonStonier
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Re: Recommended BBC Model B upgrades
That list is insanely useful - exactly what I needed thanks.rmbrowngr wrote: ↑Wed Sep 09, 2020 1:38 pmAlso take a look at the Modern Retro Hardware List for the BBC Micro Master and Acorn Electron https://elminster.github.io/hardware
I've just ordered a batch of PCBs from my supplier in Hong Kong for the SmallyMouse USB converter. As usual, it was the same price to get 5 as it was to get 1...so if anyone wants one let me know!
Re: Recommended BBC Model B upgrades
And, from reading the thread, that is not the board originally designed by Simon Inns but an equivalent running on a Raspberry Pi.rmbrowngr wrote: ↑Tue Sep 08, 2020 4:42 pmOpps, sorry.![]()
Kenlowe viewtopic.php?f=8&t=18910&hilit=BeebSCSI
What upgrades to get does very much depend on what you intend to do with the machine most of the time. For me, transferring a new SSD into/out of an MMB file to use an SD card interface is not sufficiently common that I would want to get a GOTEK instead and the Turbo SD interface I have, the same one I think you were proposing to buy, has the advantages that it is fast and compact, i.e. it fits under the machine with no extra cables.
On the question of slowness possibly being a virtue, I have never understood why people want "warts and all" from back in the day when, back in the day, we would have happily got rid of them. Loading programs, including games, from tape never seemed to be an advantage to me at the time and a friend and I used to transfer them to floppy disc including cracking the copy protection to do so. If either of us could afford hard discs at the time we would have wanted to transfer them to that too. But people vary and I am not saying that what is right for me is right for others.
When tricky says sideways RAM is not well-supported, that is right as far as games are concerned. Plenty of people upgraded model Bs back in the day to include sideways RAM because it was another way to have more than four ROMs (other than a ROM board, that is) and wasn't even limited to the 16 that a larger ROM board would hold. But commercial software writers couldn't work on the assumption that you had it because there were also plenty of people who did not have it. Only when it became part of the standard machine specification, and that machine sold in high enough numbers to bother with, i.e. the Master, did support in games emerge.
So the reason for installing sideways RAM now would be the same as it was then - if you want to run others thing than BASIC without having to blow them into ROM, though EEROM is another possibility. So any of the other languages or things like disc doctor, Exmon, etc.
Back to ADFS, another option for using ADFS is one patched to use an SD card instead. Unlike MMFS etc. this doesn't use an MMB file but a partition but it works fine for me. I also have one of the boobip OS RAM modules which enables RAM to be placed in the OS address space swicthed in and out with software control and some cleverness so data can be stored there but execution happens from the ROM. I have a version of ADFS which I patched to put its workspace there rather than in low memory so that way it uses less of the main memory than DFS, not more.
Finally, on the case, I have one of the Solidisk painted steel cases along the same lines as the Viglen one you mention. If I still had the top part of the original plastic case I would probably swap back. The steel case is heavy especially with disc drives in and, with an SD interface, I find I don't use the discs anyway. I also have a standalone disc drive which I can use if I need too. But that just emphasises that what upgrades are right is a somewhat personal thing.
- JasonStonier
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Re: Recommended BBC Model B upgrades
That's a really helpful post - thanks.
- 1024MAK
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Re: Recommended BBC Model B upgrades
Oh my! Don’t tell Duncan (Elminster), or he’ll get overexcited againJasonStonier wrote: ↑Wed Sep 09, 2020 2:27 pmThat list is insanely useful - exactly what I needed thanks.rmbrowngr wrote: ↑Wed Sep 09, 2020 1:38 pmAlso take a look at the Modern Retro Hardware List for the BBC Micro Master and Acorn Electron https://elminster.github.io/hardware

BTW, that all started here

Mark
For a "Complete BBC Games Archive" visit www.bbcmicro.co.uk NOW!
BeebWiki - for answers to many questions...
Fault finding index • Acorn BBC Model B minimal configuration • Logic Levels for 5V TTL Systems
BeebWiki - for answers to many questions...
Fault finding index • Acorn BBC Model B minimal configuration • Logic Levels for 5V TTL Systems
- 1024MAK
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Re: Recommended BBC Model B upgrades
I should also point out that if you are into DIY, it’s possible to get a cheap (£1 approx) SD card ‘interface’ (for Arduino and other microcontrollers) from China (via an online marketplace) and then make yourself a simple adapter to plug into the user port. Add a sideways ROM with a suitable filing system and you have the cheapest mass media storage system that’s possible.
Mark
Mark
For a "Complete BBC Games Archive" visit www.bbcmicro.co.uk NOW!
BeebWiki - for answers to many questions...
Fault finding index • Acorn BBC Model B minimal configuration • Logic Levels for 5V TTL Systems
BeebWiki - for answers to many questions...
Fault finding index • Acorn BBC Model B minimal configuration • Logic Levels for 5V TTL Systems
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Re: Recommended BBC Model B upgrades
May I ask why a Gotek would be any more problematic than a regular floppy drive? My understanding is that the file management software/firmware for the Gotek is at the device's end and that all the BBC will see is a set of instructions that appear to be from a 5.25" floppy and act accordingly.tricky wrote: ↑Tue Sep 08, 2020 5:38 pmI would avoid MMC and GOTEK (at the same time) and they will probably not be great together and unless they use SWRAM, will use you memory.
As a games jukebox, GOTEK is slower (same as floppy), but that can be a good thing, as it encourages you to play a bit before moving on - TAPE might be better still, or just join the high-score competition (more a gathering).
EDIT: (at the same time)