Another noob issue - disk fault 10

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stuslayer
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Another noob issue - disk fault 10

Post by stuslayer »

Hi All,

As you might have seen, I've recently been collecting hardware and having varying levels of success getting it to work - novice user etc.

I just picked up a really nice condition Cumana dual switchable 5.1/4" drive, and proceeded to test (sold as tested and working on a BBC and ATARI 800, Also TI99), cosmetically it's as new as the seller had resprayed the housing. It looks really good.

So I plugged this into my Peg400 equipped Elk, as a test, as I'm still waiting for my new Beeb to come back from repair. Initially, nothing. I tried all commands to get a disc to CAT, the drive whirred but no activity lights came on. Checked my cables are correctly inserted etc, right way round, and no changes.

So I opened it up, the drives are TEC 504's, and the links were set incorrectly. I set the links to DS0 and DS1, and switched on - *CAT and hey presto! life. Starts to whirr, activity lights etc. Great! However - I get 'disk fault 10 at 00/00' errors each time, with different discs. I'm set to 80 track on the switches, I have changed these to no effect. I am at a loss what to try next. Any ideas?
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danielj
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Re: Another noob issue - disk fault 10

Post by danielj »

That's "drive not ready". What's on the disks? Are you sure the Peg's working? What's the surface condition of the disks like? Does *CAT 0 and *CAT 1 make the correct drive light up or do they both light up? :)

d.
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Re: Another noob issue - disk fault 10

Post by stuslayer »

danielj wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 2:51 pm
That's "drive not ready". What's on the disks? Are you sure the Peg's working? What's the surface condition of the disks like? Does *CAT 0 and *CAT 1 make the correct drive light up or do they both light up? :)

d.
Hi Daniel

The discs are various old discs I picked up in a job lot off ebay, plus 2 discs that were in the drives when I took delivery. The drives respond properly i.e. CAT 0 starts up drive 0, CAT 1 Drive 1 etc. The lights light up correctly. I have checked the data cable is in the right way, I've plugged/unplugged it numerous times etc.

With regards to the job lot discs I have checked they were in OK nick before putting them into the drive.

I also attempted a format of one of the discs that came with the drive, it never got off sector 0 so I wonder if the drive is stepping correctly?
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Re: Another noob issue - disk fault 10

Post by stuslayer »

To clarify, I've got the cover off at the moment to try and work out what is happening. I have also manually moved the head on the disc to ensure It's resetting to track 0 when CATing. it is, on both drives. Could it be something to do with the DFS stepping rates?
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Re: Another noob issue - disk fault 10

Post by danielj »

Unplug drive 1, just leave 0 connected. What happens then?

Basically it's drive motor not spinning, disk not in properly or a clash between drives that tends to cause that error...

d.
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Re: Another noob issue - disk fault 10

Post by stuslayer »

danielj wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 3:07 pm
Unplug drive 1, just leave 0 connected. What happens then?

Basically it's drive motor not spinning, disk not in properly or a clash between drives that tends to cause that error...

d.
Thanks, just tried this, no effect. Still disk fault 10, tried a CAT and a VERIFY, same result.
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Re: Another noob issue - disk fault 10

Post by BeebMaster »

What DFS are you using? Many of them (usually with an 8271 controller) don't have an in-built formatter and verifier, so without a formatted disc already in the drive, you will get a disc error of some sort.
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Re: Another noob issue - disk fault 10

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BeebMaster wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 4:00 pm
What DFS are you using? Many of them (usually with an 8271 controller) don't have an in-built formatter and verifier, so without a formatted disc already in the drive, you will get a disc error of some sort.
Hiya, I'm using the revamped Pegasus 400 E00 DFS from Dave Hitchins, so that's not the issue (it's 1772 based, I believe)
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Re: Another noob issue - disk fault 10

Post by stuslayer »

Although, I guess it could be the issue (i.e. incompatability)? I can use a VERIFY command, it simply gives the same disk fault 10 code.
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Re: Another noob issue - disk fault 10

Post by stuslayer »

And I should say, the Peg works perfectly with my Gotek.
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Re: Another noob issue - disk fault 10

Post by stuslayer »

OK, the plot thickens...

I decided to try and check each logical drive to see if I got any signs of life. Drives 0, 1 and 3 will not CAT, FORMAT or VERIFY any disks. However, Drive 2 enabled me to format a disk to 80 track and then CAT it perfectly well.

Are the drive heads knackered?
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Re: Another noob issue - disk fault 10

Post by danielj »

Or the cable? I'd have expected a different fault with knackered heads.. 18 or something :?


d.
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Re: Another noob issue - disk fault 10

Post by stuslayer »

danielj wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 5:50 pm
Or the cable? I'd have expected a different fault with knackered heads.. 18 or something :?


d.
Unfortunately, I don't have another cable to test it. The seller offered a refund for sending back, I might have to take that up. It's a real shame because the unit looks like new.

One last thought - would it make any difference which drive is set as 0? Looking at the unit from the front, the left hand drive is drive 1, the right hand is 0. Does this make any difference?
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Re: Another noob issue - disk fault 10

Post by 1024MAK »

Any drive can be device 0 and any drive can be device 1. But at no time can they both be the same device number.

You can test if it is the cable if you have a multimeter or a logic probe, or even a simple test circuit (one resistor and a RED or GREEN LED).

Mark
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Re: Another noob issue - disk fault 10

Post by stuslayer »

1024MAK wrote:
Wed May 06, 2020 11:14 pm
Any drive can be device 0 and any drive can be device 1. But at no time can they both be the same device number.

You can test if it is the cable if you have a multimeter or a logic probe, or even a simple test circuit (one resistor and a RED or GREEN LED).

Mark
Hi Mark,

I have a multimeter. Could it still be the cable if drive 2 seems fo be working correctly?
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danielj
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Re: Another noob issue - disk fault 10

Post by danielj »

If the side select signal wasn't getting through you might find that you're only accessing one side... Although I'd expect you just to see the same side no matter which side you tried to access. That said, I'd still want to rule out a flakey cable.

I note this thread: viewtopic.php?t=8567

I can't find a service manual for the drive :(

d.
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Re: Another noob issue - disk fault 10

Post by 1024MAK »

stuslayer wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 8:53 am
I have a multimeter. Could it still be the cable if drive 2 seems fo be working correctly?
IDC connectors and ribbon cable are normally rock solid when new, and when left undisturbed. But old cables can develop flaky connections that cause various strange intermittent faults.

There is also the possibility that the pins on the computer or the floppy drives are dirty or ‘tarnished’. Or that the receptacle in the cable IDC connector has been damaged.

Floppy Diskdrive pinout (Acorn BBC version of the Shugart interface):
Pin Name <- Micro - Direction - Drive -> Description
8/INDEX<--Index
10/DS0-->Device Select 0
12/DS1-->Device Select 1
16/MO-->Motor On
18/DIR-->Direction
20/STEP-->Step
22/WDATA-->Write Data
24/WGATE-->Floppy Write Enable
26/TRK00<--Track 0
28/WPT<--Write Protect
30/RDATA<--Read Data
32/SIDE1-->Side/Head Select
All odd numbered pins are 0V/GND.
Any even numbered pins not listed are not normally used for 5¼” drives.

The control lines are active low. So are normally high and go low to signal an action.

Pin 10 and 12 (one or the other) should be active depending on which drive is selected.
Pin 16 goes active to spin both disks up (a single signal is used by both drives).
Pin 32 is the side select and should change state depending on which side (head) is selected.
Pin 8 should pulse (may be too quick for a digital multimeter to show) every time the physical index in the disk is detected (where applicable).
Pin 18 determines which direction the head steps when changing track, and the signal to step (change track) is on pin 20.
When the head is at track 0, pin 26 should be active.

Mark
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Re: Another noob issue - disk fault 10

Post by stuslayer »

To be honest, I bought this as it was listed as fully tested and working, with drives and housing in as new condition. Given that I paid a 3 figure sum because it was advertised as such, I think I'm going to return it for a refund. The point was to avoid this hassle. I have a TurboMMC to use on my Beeb when it arrives back, so I guess I'll stick with that.
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Re: Another noob issue - disk fault 10

Post by BeebMaster »

I think it's a good idea to check for a faulty cable, even if you don't a have a spare. Make sure there aren't any breaks or cracks all the way along and clean out the header in case there's any debris lodged in there. Similarly check at the computer end that the pins on the port are clean and all present and spaced correctly. Not very long ago I managed to bend two adjacent pins of a header so that they both went into the same header socket pin, by fumbling about plugging a cable into something without actually observing what I was doing.
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Re: Another noob issue - disk fault 10

Post by danielj »

stuslayer wrote:
Thu May 07, 2020 10:58 am
To be honest, I bought this as it was listed as fully tested and working, with drives and housing in as new condition. Given that I paid a 3 figure sum because it was advertised as such, I think I'm going to return it for a refund. The point was to avoid this hassle. I have a TurboMMC to use on my Beeb when it arrives back, so I guess I'll stick with that.
Sounds wise, it's clearly not working. Get more goteks for £12 and put flashfloppy on them :)

d.
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