Acorn Electron online? Any such hardware.

discuss both original and modern hardware for the bbc micro/electron
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roland
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Re: Acorn Electron online? Any such hardware.

Post by roland » Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:48 pm

I have modified the read response routine for the CIPSEND function. It works a bit different now.

The previous version depended on three blocks of data coming from the ESP8266. These blocks were separated by a (short) time interval. In some situations this went wrong because of a too short time out time. I have rewritten this. In the new version the read response routine for CIPSEND uses the long time out for the first blocks (where the old routine used the short time out). However, in the last block (that contains the data) there is always a + sign (of the +IPD) and when this + is received, the routine switched to the short time out. The advantage is that whether there are one, two or three data blocks, the time out at the start is always long enough and when the real data comes in, the time out after receiving the data is quite short so you don't have to wait for nothing.

I also disabled the interrupts before sending the CIPSEND= command because I notices sometimes a data loss at the beginning and this seems to be solved as well. And I moved the timer bytes to &140 so they won't be overwritten by incoming data.

I want to do some more testing with the new version before I publish it.
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Re: Acorn Electron online? Any such hardware.

Post by hoglet » Thu Sep 03, 2020 6:04 pm

roland wrote:
Wed Sep 02, 2020 9:48 pm
I have modified the read response routine for the CIPSEND function. It works a bit different now.

...

I want to do some more testing with the new version before I publish it.
That seems like a reasonable approach.

I'm happy to do some more local testing when there is a new version available.

Dave

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Re: Acorn Electron online? Any such hardware.

Post by BigEd » Sat Sep 05, 2020 2:28 pm

Nearby Dave Arcadian notes that Roland's presentation from this morning can now be viewed online:
Arcadian wrote:
Sat Sep 05, 2020 2:19 pm
First video edited and online :)

WiFi on the Acorn Electron - Roland Leurs.
Roland-Electron-Online.png

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Re: Acorn Electron online? Any such hardware.

Post by roland » Sat Sep 05, 2020 5:24 pm

Thanks for the feedback on my presentation (mostly by PM and during the ABUG).

I have released version 0.17. The most significant changes are:

* rewrite of the driver #13 download handling (mostly used by WGET)
* added the *DISCONNECT command (might be handy when a TCP connection is not closed because of an error)
* added the -S option to WGET for downloading ROM images directly into sideways RAM

The WiCFS filing system was already available in version 0.16 but was probably not mentioned before :mrgreen: I just wanted to keep that as a "surprise" to my ABUG talk. Unfortunately I couldn't give it much attention because I was running out of my time slot.

To start with the new options I have copied some texts from the ElkWifI manual:

WGET retrieve a file from the Internet
Syntax: *WGET [-T X U A P S] <url> [load address]
This tool downloads a file from a web server and either displays it on the screen (for example a text file) or stores it in the Electron’s memory.
The tool has three parameters. The first one is an optional switch to indicate the file type. You may only specify one of these switches:
-T treat the file as a text file and display it on the screen after downloading the file. It will not be stored in the Electron’s main memory.
-X this is the same as -T but it uses the code &0A as newline. Suitable to display Linux/Unix files.
-A the file will be downloaded into the Electron’s memory and has an ATM file header. If no load address is specified on the command line, the file will be stored on the load address in the header.
-P similar to the -A option, but now the file has an Atom-in-PC header. If no load address is specified on the command line, the file will be stored on the load address in the header.
-U the file is an UEF file. This file will be loaded into the second 64k bank of the paged RAM.
-S the file a a ROM file and will be loaded directly into sideways RAM. You should specify the RAM bank number (0 – F) as the last parameter; the default is bank 0.

The URL consists of a number of components:
protocol (required, http and https are supported
protocols)
hostname (required)
port number (optional)
path and filename (optional)

For example: http://acornatom.nl:8080/path/to/file.htm

Although you can specify https as a protocol and the ESP8266 will connect to port 443 of the web server, it does not retrieve any data. This is probably related to either outdated encryption protocols or the ESP8266 might not support SNI.
The last parameter, load address, will override the load address that is in a header. If this parameter is omitted and the file has no header then it will be loaded at the current PAGE.

Working with UEF files
Downloading an UEF file
Before you can use an UEF file you have to download it from a (local) web server. Use the *WGET command for this with the -U switch, for example:
*WGET -u http://acornatom.nl/ddd.uef
This will download the UEF file and store it in the second bank of 64k paged RAM. The uncompressed UEF should not exceed 65533 bytes (the last two addresses are used to store the length of the UEF file).
Starting the WiCFS filing system
After loading the UEF file you can start the WiCFS filing system with the command:
*WICFS
This command activates *TAPE but changes the vectors FILEV, FSCV, FINDV and BGETV to its own routines. Commands like *CAT, *LOAD and *RUN are intercepted and redirected to the WiFi ROM. Page is set to &E00 as this is required for many games.
Also the read-pointer is reset to the beginning of the data.
Rewinding
Just like a real tape you might sometimes need to “rewind” the data in memory. Of course we are not moving the data around but we have to move the read-pointer to the beginning of the data in memory.
After you have *CAT-ted an UEF file you must reset the read-pointer to the beginning of the file before you can load a file into the main memory of your Electron. That’s all what the
*REWIND
command does.

Example to run Dare Devil Dennis:
*WGET -U HTTP://ACORNATOM.NL/ddd.uef
*WICFS
CHAIN ""

Enjoy!
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Re: Acorn Electron online? Any such hardware.

Post by sfalvey » Mon Sep 07, 2020 12:58 am

In its current form is it compatible with the Master or is there more work to do?

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Re: Acorn Electron online? Any such hardware.

Post by roland » Mon Sep 07, 2020 8:22 am

I don't think it's a lot of work to adapt this board for a BBC Master. Unfortunately I don't have a Master so I cannot work this out. The CPLD is prepared for a Master and should work as it is shipped, but still untested.

I assume (but cannot confirm) that the ROM is also compatible with the Master. Perhaps somebody with a Master can test it, Hoglet perhaps?
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Re: Acorn Electron online? Any such hardware.

Post by hoglet » Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:10 am

roland wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 8:22 am
Perhaps somebody with a Master can test it, Hoglet perhaps?
Co-incidentally, I was planning to git it a try today!

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Re: Acorn Electron online? Any such hardware.

Post by hoglet » Mon Sep 07, 2020 1:40 pm

roland wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 8:22 am
Perhaps somebody with a Master can test it, Hoglet perhaps?
Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but there are a couple of problems on the Master front...

Firstly, it doesn't actually fit in the cartridge slots in the case. The Master Cartridge slots are much smaller than the Electron ones. The ElkWifi PCB is too large on the left hand side, by about 7mm.
IMG_1969.JPG
Secondly, if you remove the case and plug it in, it stops the Master from booting:
IMG_1970.JPG
I made sure ROMs 0-3 were *UNPLUGged first, in case it was just a bug in the ElkWifi ROM. But it seems to be more than that.

I had a look at the CPLD, and I spotted one issue. The nROM_CS signal is not quite right for the Master. It needs an extra term that include the ERnW signal:

Code: Select all

      -- Enable ROM
      if nROMOE = '0' and (madet = '1' or ERnW = '1') then
         cs_rom <= '0';
      else
         cs_rom <= '1';
      end if;
I made this change, and now the Master will boot.

The next issue was the fast Clock was missing on the cartridge. To enable it on the Master you need to fit link LK61 in position C/D. I did this, and found the clock is 8MHz, not 16MHz. This is correct, according to the App Note.

So as a quick workaround, I changed "freq" from 72 to 144, rebuilt the CPLD, and managed to do a successful WGET!
capture12.png
The ?&FE34=&20 causes the Master to map &FCxx and &FDxx to the internal 1MHz Bus on the Cartridge Port. This is something the ROM would really need to do.

There does seem to be an issue with *WICFS - do you have any idea what that might be?

Dave

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Re: Acorn Electron online? Any such hardware.

Post by roland » Mon Sep 07, 2020 2:37 pm

Thank you Dave for testing. After all, I don't find it too bad after all. Like I mentioned before I don't have a Master and didn't to much research for Master compatibility other than Dave Hitchins' directions to feed some of the Master specific into the CPLD. That was a good choice since you did not need to cut tracks and add wires :lol:

The CPLD differences for the clock might be switched automatically by including the Master-Detect signal. Otherwise, two versions of the CPLD isn't a big problem, except for people who want to use the cartridge in both the Master and the Elk.

The board size is something that might be a challenge. I will have a look at the KiCAD files to see if I can make it smaller without a complete re-route of the board.

About WiCFS, is the file correctly loaded into memory? You can check that with *PRD 0 1
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Re: Acorn Electron online? Any such hardware.

Post by hoglet » Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:23 pm

roland wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 2:37 pm
About WiCFS, is the file correctly loaded into memory? You can check that with *PRD 0 1
Yes, it looks correct to me.

I'll do a bit more debugging...

Dave

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Re: Acorn Electron online? Any such hardware.

Post by hoglet » Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:09 pm

hoglet wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 3:23 pm
I'll do a bit more debugging...
*WICFS is not working on the Master because it uses an Electron specific hardware address (&FE05).

There are a few other places this is used as well:

Code: Select all

electron.asm:            switch = &FE05
erase.asm:            stx &FE05
erase.asm:            stx &FE05           \ write to ULA
erase.asm:            stx &FE05
erase.asm:            stx &FE05           \ write to ULA
erase.asm:            stx &FE05
erase.asm:            stx &FE05           \ write to ULA
flash.asm:            STA &FE05
flash.asm:            sta &FE05
flash.asm:            sta &FE05           \ write to ULA
program.asm:            stx &FE05
program.asm:            stx &FE05           \ write to ULA
program.asm:            stx &FE05
program.asm:            stx &FE05           \ write to ULA
program.asm:            stx &FE05
program.asm:            stx &FE05           \ write to ULA
program.asm:            stx &FE05
program.asm:            stx &FE05           \ write to ULA
serial.asm: sta &FE05
wicfs.asm:	STA	&FE05
wicfs.asm:	STA	&FE05
wicfs.asm:	STA	&FE05
Dave

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Re: Acorn Electron online? Any such hardware.

Post by roland » Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:42 pm

MartinB has informed me that there are different versions for the Elk and BBC/Master of UPCFS. So this version definitively won't work on a Master. I might try to convert the BBC version to WiCFS.

What about a WiFi board version for the 1MHz bus connector?
  • It will work on a Master, BBC and Electron with AP5
  • It will also work on standard Atoms with the BBC Expansion port module
  • The ROM will be removed from that board and should go into a free socket (you'll probably miss the *UPDATE feature)
  • The sideways RAM can be retained on the board
How about that?
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Re: Acorn Electron online? Any such hardware.

Post by daveejhitchins » Mon Sep 07, 2020 7:03 pm

roland wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 4:42 pm
MartinB has informed me that there are different versions for the Elk and BBC/Master of UPCFS. So this version definitively won't work on a Master. I might try to convert the BBC version to WiCFS.

What about a WiFi board version for the 1MHz bus connector?
  • It will work on a Master, BBC and Electron with AP5
  • It will also work on standard Atoms with the BBC Expansion port module
  • The ROM will be removed from that board and should go into a free socket (you'll probably miss the *UPDATE feature)
  • The sideways RAM can be retained on the board
How about that?
What's the difference between having TWO versions (Master and Electron) and detecting you're in a Master or Electron and behaving accordingly?
You could even have completely different ROMs!

I just don't believe you need seperate the hardware!

Dave H.

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Re: Acorn Electron online? Any such hardware.

Post by roland » Mon Sep 07, 2020 10:20 pm

This idea was just for if I have to modify a lot of the board to make it physically fit into the Master. In that scenario I can do a completely new build that fits the Beeb as well. Of course, still can both be done; after all, Beeb users might want this as well :lol:
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Re: Acorn Electron online? Any such hardware.

Post by hoglet » Mon Sep 07, 2020 10:43 pm

My feeling would be to focus on the Electron version for now; the cartridge form-factor you already have there is perfect. It's also really nice that it contains the necessary ROM, and that this is updateable with *UPDATE. It really is just plug-and-go! It would be great to see an online Electron games archive with a simple menu program.

An external 1MHz bus Beeb and/or Master version in the future would be nice, but there is more scope for compatibility issues, as other devices also use the 1MHz Bus (Data Centre, Beeb SCSI, Music 5000, etc). Dominic B came up with a nice set of rules for sharing the 1MHz bus; the current Elk Wifi doesn't quite follow those, but the changes would be quite small. There are hooks in the MOS for a device on the 1MHz bus to initialize itself on power up. (The Beeb 1MHz Bus FPGA board uses this to generate the Own logo). It might be possible to use this hook to copy a 16K ROM image from paged-FLASH on the 1MHz Bus into sideways RAM. Then it would be plug-and-go like the Electron version is.

A further issue with using the Master cartridge is the MOS in the Master doesn't really have any support for the internal and external 1MHz busses both being active at the same time. In fact, even the OSBYTE that is meant to switch from one to the other is broken!

Dave

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Re: Acorn Electron online? Any such hardware.

Post by daveejhitchins » Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:45 am

hoglet wrote:
Mon Sep 07, 2020 10:43 pm
It would be great to see an online Electron games archive with a simple menu program.
Could EveryGameGoing be used?

Dave H.

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Re: Acorn Electron online? Any such hardware.

Post by hoglet » Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:49 am

daveejhitchins wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:45 am
Could EveryGameGoing be used?
Are UEF files freely available there? I couldn't see them...

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Re: Acorn Electron online? Any such hardware.

Post by daveejhitchins » Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:54 am

hoglet wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:49 am
daveejhitchins wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:45 am
Could EveryGameGoing be used?
Are UEF files freely available there? I couldn't see them...
D'oh! UEF files . . .

Dave H.

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Re: Acorn Electron online? Any such hardware.

Post by hoglet » Tue Sep 08, 2020 8:04 am

daveejhitchins wrote:
Tue Sep 08, 2020 7:54 am
D'oh! UEF files . . .
There are a load on stairway:
http://www.stairwaytohell.com/bbc/index ... e=homepage

They just need unzipping and a simple menu needs to be generated.

Dave

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Re: Acorn Electron online? Any such hardware.

Post by roland » Tue Sep 08, 2020 8:09 am

Last Sunday I already downloaded about UEF 998 files from http://www.stairwaytohell.com/electron/uefarchive/ WGET in Linux is a nice tool :mrgreen:

I just don't know if it's allowed to redistribute them..... Unzipping and un-g-zipping them is easy to do with some scripting.
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Re: Acorn Electron online? Any such hardware.

Post by 1024MAK » Wed Sep 09, 2020 3:38 pm

I’ll put my thoughts about a BBC B / B+ / Master version in the new BBC + Master online (fork from ElkWiFi) topic.

I agree with Dave, best to continue to concentrate on the Elk version for now.

Mark

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Re: Acorn Electron online? Any such hardware.

Post by roland » Sat Sep 19, 2020 10:59 pm

A new step: the first printed page from the Electron over WiFi:
print1.jpg
print2.jpg
It's not perfect yet because the printer gives a time-out error and the AT commands are also printed which it should not do. I haven't mastered the ESP8266 pass-through mode completely. But there is hope :lol:
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Re: Acorn Electron online? Any such hardware.

Post by roland » Sun Sep 20, 2020 1:32 pm

Just playing a bit :lol:
579A8570-2C02-4B58-9520-6DD6F8EEF6C2.jpeg
579A8570-2C02-4B58-9520-6DD6F8EEF6C2.jpeg (29.18 KiB) Viewed 407 times
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Re: Acorn Electron online? Any such hardware.

Post by roland » Tue Sep 22, 2020 8:07 am

roland wrote:
Sat Sep 19, 2020 10:59 pm
It's not perfect yet because the printer gives a time-out error and the AT commands are also printed which it should not do. I haven't mastered the ESP8266 pass-through mode completely.
print2.jpg
print2.jpg (2.91 KiB) Viewed 362 times
I have found a way to prevent the AT codes. To stop the pass-through mode the ESP8266 expects the string +++ followed by a pause of minimal 1 second. However, for an unknown reason the ESP8266 ignored or missed it. I did monitor the data stream with a serial monitor and also I "printed" to my laptop and monitored the data stream with tcpdump. However, I couldn't find why it didn't end the pass-through mode.

I had the idea that the interrupt driven printer output from the Electron was the cause. So now I wait 1 second before sending the +++ and wait a second after sending them. This seems to do the trick and now the printing is really stopped after the VDU 3 command 8)

I also speed up printing by not reading one character at a time from the printer buffer when the user print vector is called. The printer buffer is not that big, so I read and send it completely to the network printer. This causes almost no delay in output.
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Re: Acorn Electron online? Any such hardware.

Post by 0xC0DE » Tue Sep 22, 2020 3:38 pm

Hi Roland,

I got the Elk Wifi in the mail today and it's working beautifully!
I think I got the same problems as described earlier in this thread with getting a local webserver (python) to work.
I updated the Elk Wifi software to version 0.21 but the problem persists (delay, then "Connect error"). Any ideas for a fix?
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Re: Acorn Electron online? Any such hardware.

Post by roland » Tue Sep 22, 2020 4:07 pm

A connect error sounds more like it can't connect at all. Are you connecting to the right port of your Python server?
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Re: Acorn Electron online? Any such hardware.

Post by 0xC0DE » Tue Sep 22, 2020 4:21 pm

roland wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 4:07 pm
A connect error sounds more like it can't connect at all. Are you connecting to the right port of your Python server?
I think so but will try again. I can download from an external server just fine. Trying to setup a local webserver so I can use that in my dev tool chain :mrgreen:
I just shared a picture of my Electron with the Elk Wifi on Twitter. I did mention you Roland but couldn't tag you because you're not on Twitter I think
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Re: Acorn Electron online? Any such hardware.

Post by roland » Tue Sep 22, 2020 4:32 pm

You can always point people to this topic for more information. I use Apache for the ElkWiFi development. Assemble the file with beebasm and then download it with *WGET. However, the Python server should also work. I'll try it for myself later.
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Re: Acorn Electron online? Any such hardware.

Post by 0xC0DE » Tue Sep 22, 2020 5:11 pm

roland wrote:
Tue Sep 22, 2020 4:32 pm
You can always point people to this topic for more information. I use Apache for the ElkWiFi development. Assemble the file with beebasm and then download it with *WGET. However, the Python server should also work. I'll try it for myself later.
Yes, I posted this thread on Twitter as well.
I can't get Apache and Python httpd to work. The built-in Windows 10 IIS web server works but I don't want to use it.
I am starting to think my firewall or ESET internet security may be blocking something.

Edit: yes, ESET is blocking the daemon. It now works! =D>
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Re: Acorn Electron online? Any such hardware.

Post by roland » Tue Sep 22, 2020 6:17 pm

Good to read that you solved it. So the problem really was a connection problem.
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