MMC - Card? - Help needed.

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csb1980
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MMC - Card? - Help needed.

Post by csb1980 » Sat Apr 04, 2020 3:44 pm

Afternoon folks,

Recently purchased the MMC ROM with card reader, finally got around to installing today but every time I try to run the card I get ‘Card?’ appearing on screen.

I double checked all connections, I’ve tried reformatting the MICRO SD but still get the same error. Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated. It’s a Model B that I have. Have included pic my ROM layout below.

Regards

Col.
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danielj
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Re: MMC - Card? - Help needed.

Post by danielj » Sat Apr 04, 2020 4:03 pm

First thing - who did you buy it from? Have you been in touch with them? If people are asking for money for products then they're absolutely obliged to support the people who buy them! :)

If it is misbehaving, and you're confident all the connections are good, the card is properly set up, and there's no faults with the hardware itself, it's possible that it's the user VIA (one of the two 6522s) that's not working.

d.

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flaxcottage
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Re: MMC - Card? - Help needed.

Post by flaxcottage » Sat Apr 04, 2020 4:41 pm

danielj wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 4:03 pm
If it is misbehaving, and you're confident all the connections are good, the card is properly set up, and there's no faults with the hardware itself, it's possible that it's the user VIA (one of the two 6522s) that's not working.
Yep, I'd second that. I have had that problem - it is really annoying. :(
- John

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tricky
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Re: MMC - Card? - Help needed.

Post by tricky » Sat Apr 04, 2020 7:00 pm

That looks like one on my ROMs, so I guess that's me :)
I find reseating the card or mmc usually fixes Card?
Btw Nearly all of mine are sold in person and demontarted working.

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flaxcottage
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Re: MMC - Card? - Help needed.

Post by flaxcottage » Sat Apr 04, 2020 7:32 pm

I like demontart. Yummy! :lol:
- John

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Wheel_nut
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Re: MMC - Card? - Help needed.

Post by Wheel_nut » Sat Apr 04, 2020 11:38 pm

csb1980 wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 3:44 pm
... I’ve tried reformatting the MICRO SD but still get the same error. Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated. It’s a Model B that I have. Have included pic my ROM layout below.
If you reformatted the MicroSD card (FAT32), did you copy the Beeb.MMB File back onto it?
#1 BBC Model B Issue 7 + 1770 DFS + Dual TEAC Floppy
#2 BBC Model B Issue 7 + 8271 DFS + Dual Floppy + Speech
#3 BBC Model B Issue 7 + 8271 DFS + Cumana Single Floppy + PiTubeDirect on KenLowe's Tube Level Shifter

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tricky
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Re: MMC - Card? - Help needed.

Post by tricky » Sun Apr 05, 2020 9:08 am

Did I sell you the board? (it would have been from an ABUG or other retro/arcade show).
Are you using the card that came with it?
Has it ever worked?
Please include a fairly close-up picture of how the board is fitted in the user port, about 45 degrees would be great.
Something like these, but hopefully better lit (these are from my master).
Image
The red line on the board is because I got the labels the wrong way around - mirroring and side of the board!
As you can see, all the clever stuff is on the Arduino board, mine just makes a more stable connection.
If these pictures don't tell us anything, I'll probably need some close ups of my soldering - which will no doubt be embarrassing!

csb1980
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Re: MMC - Card? - Help needed.

Post by csb1980 » Sun Apr 05, 2020 2:23 pm

Wheel_nut wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 11:38 pm
csb1980 wrote:
Sat Apr 04, 2020 3:44 pm
... I’ve tried reformatting the MICRO SD but still get the same error. Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated. It’s a Model B that I have. Have included pic my ROM layout below.
If you reformatted the MicroSD card (FAT32), did you copy the Beeb.MMB File back onto it?
Yes, have tried reformatting on two different machines, both FAT32 and then copied back over the files that were on the SD card. Still no joy sadly.

csb1980
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Re: MMC - Card? - Help needed.

Post by csb1980 » Sun Apr 05, 2020 2:26 pm

tricky wrote:
Sun Apr 05, 2020 9:08 am
Did I sell you the board? (it would have been from an ABUG or other retro/arcade show).
Are you using the card that came with it?
Has it ever worked?
Please include a fairly close-up picture of how the board is fitted in the user port, about 45 degrees would be great.
Something like these, but hopefully better lit (these are from my master).
Image
The red line on the board is because I got the labels the wrong way around - mirroring and side of the board!
As you can see, all the clever stuff is on the Arduino board, mine just makes a more stable connection.
If these pictures don't tell us anything, I'll probably need some close ups of my soldering - which will no doubt be embarrassing!
Afternoon Tricky, yes it was from your good self at the last Revival event back at the start of March. Like I say I’ve tried the reformatting but still getting the same error. I’ve attached a few close ups below as requested.

It’s the same card that came with it. Literally opened the packaging and plugged it in for the first time yesterday, went to load off the SD and the ‘Card?’ message is what I got.

Regards

Col.
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CD7C6E2A-471E-4FC1-8C10-3AA021E229A1.jpeg
19B0D051-7481-4A71-9731-1D5D56B94166.jpeg

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tricky
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Re: MMC - Card? - Help needed.

Post by tricky » Sun Apr 05, 2020 7:46 pm

I guess that you have removed it a couple of times, but can you check that the pins on the user port are clean and straight.
Do you have way to test software?
I need to check exactly what Card? means, I think it means that the device is working, but that the card isn't responding.
Ordinary fat should be fine.
I think that the beeb.mmb must be one of the first eight files copied onto the card after formatting to gaurentee that the SW can find it, but I guess it was.
Do you have any other micro SD cards that you could try?
Please could you also try ejecting and inserting the card a few times.

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hoglet
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Re: MMC - Card? - Help needed.

Post by hoglet » Sun Apr 05, 2020 8:00 pm

Assuming Tricy tested the adapter when it was made, this is most likely:
(1) A poor connection due to tarnished pins on the User Port socket.
(2) A faulty 6522.

(1) can be addressed by plugging/unplugging the connector about 20 times
(2) can be diagnosed by swapping over the User and System 6522 chips (IC69 and IC3).

Dave

rharper
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Re: MMC - Card? - Help needed.

Post by rharper » Mon Apr 06, 2020 10:10 am

Working SD cards can stop working (Card? response) and need a reformat + copy BEEB.MMB back, sometimes more than once and sometimes never to work again on the MMC card interface though they seem fine under Windows/Linux.
Ray
Raycomp

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Re: MMC - Card? - Help needed.

Post by duikkie » Mon Apr 06, 2020 10:33 am

Windows do not use SPI thans why simetimes the card look oke

rharper wrote:
Mon Apr 06, 2020 10:10 am
Working SD cards can stop working (Card? response) and need a reformat + copy BEEB.MMB back, sometimes more than once and sometimes never to work again on the MMC card interface though they seem fine under Windows/Linux.
Ray

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tricky
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Re: MMC - Card? - Help needed.

Post by tricky » Mon Apr 06, 2020 3:57 pm

I was going to suggest the 6522 swap, but wanted to built up to it and maybe send a new card+adapter out first.
Oh, yes it was tested ;) They are all tested with their card and their ROM (as a set) before I bag them.
There was one person at Revival who didn't see there card/adapter running before they took it, was it you?

r05sco
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Re: MMC - Card? - Help needed.

Post by r05sco » Mon Apr 20, 2020 11:20 pm

Just to chip in.
I have Richards MMC and Card reader.
When I first installed it, I got the Card? line.
I went about reseating chips and fiddling with ports.
What I failed to notice first was the bloody micro SD wasn't fully inserted into the card reader.
Work perfectly now!

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tricky
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Re: MMC - Card? - Help needed.

Post by tricky » Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:36 am

Yes, the spring loaded ejector is more trouble than it is worth.

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