Tape - MMSD CARD/ABR reprogramming

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danielj
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Re: Tape - MMSD CARD

Post by danielj » Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:13 pm

Reload it all from the backup?

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Re: Tape - MMSD CARD

Post by BeebMan2018 » Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:14 pm

CMcDougall wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:10 pm
your plus1 is fried.... somewhere :(

there must of been a loose connection, or you moved the elk /plus1 when it was doing something :|

my old rubbish Plus3 did that also, I had to rename files <3 chars, then it worked :lol:
Blowen Caps or ... ?

I've looked inside both the +1 and the Elk and could see no visable damage. No obvious burst caps or blowen / burnt resistors. Not obvious anyway but i did get a burnt smell but it was inside the elk itself ! :/

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Re: Tape - MMSD CARD

Post by BeebMan2018 » Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:15 pm

danielj wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:13 pm
Reload it all from the backup?
I have not made a backup of the MMFS but the guy that gave it to me might have.

ALSO, have replaced the Electron with another Electron and i get the same error with it as well. So unless they are both shot with the same fault its either the ADF Card or the, supposedly bombproof, +1. Hopefully either or can be repaired :/ So now i'm needing a maintenance guide to trouble shoot the +1 ???
Last edited by BeebMan2018 on Sat Aug 31, 2019 1:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Tape - MMSD CARD

Post by danielj » Sat Aug 31, 2019 6:16 am

It's more likely to be the card than the plus one. Easy things first. Get that reinstalled and go from there. I'm afraid I can't help with that bit, as I don't have one up and running - user guide here: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5672#p66117

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Re: Tape - MMSD CARD

Post by Elminster » Sat Aug 31, 2019 8:11 am

BeebMan2018 wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:15 pm
danielj wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:13 pm
Reload it all from the backup?
I have not made a backup of the MMFS but the guy that gave it to me might have.

ALSO, have replaced the Electron with another Electron and i get the same error with it as well. So unless they are both shot with the same fault its either the ADF Card or the, supposedly bombproof, +1. Hopefully either or can be repaired :/ So now i'm needing a maintenance guide to trouble shoot the +1 ???
I assume this is the card the Sydney did in thread viewtopic.php?f=3&t=17187&p=238402

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danielj
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Re: Tape - MMSD CARD

Post by danielj » Sat Aug 31, 2019 8:25 am

Specifically:

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=17187&p=238402#p238158

If you didn't do as suggested then a way needs to be found of making the relevant tape...

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Re: Tape - MMSD CARD

Post by BeebMan2018 » Sat Aug 31, 2019 9:33 am

Elminster wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 8:11 am
BeebMan2018 wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:15 pm
danielj wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:13 pm
Reload it all from the backup?
I have not made a backup of the MMFS but the guy that gave it to me might have.

ALSO, have replaced the Electron with another Electron and i get the same error with it as well. So unless they are both shot with the same fault its either the ADF Card or the, supposedly bombproof, +1. Hopefully either or can be repaired :/ So now i'm needing a maintenance guide to trouble shoot the +1 ???
I assume this is the card the Sydney did in thread viewtopic.php?f=3&t=17187&p=238402
I can confirm that this is correct. It is sydneys card :(( I hope ive not broke it. I dont understand though it was fine and the elk etc was on the desk all safe n sound. :((

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Re: Tape - MMSD CARD

Post by rharper » Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:15 am

That beeb.mmb is an old one of mine which was under development - I did not realise it was out in the wild.
The Elite error is because that ssd is corrupt - I don't think it is accessed by the games menu which is probably on disc image 0 or 100.
The beeb.mmb to use is here viewtopic.php?f=3&t=12794, beeb.7z halfway down page 1. There is an updated elk-games.ssd (a bit quicker screen display) top of page 2 which can replace the original using mmbimager.

Ray
Last edited by rharper on Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
Raycomp

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Re: Tape - MMSD CARD

Post by CMcDougall » Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:19 am

so after being reminded about what happened with all my Plus1s & elks 2.5yr ago, it's the ABR!

you need another rom cartridge, then will be fine :D
ImageImageImage

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Re: Tape - MMSD CARD

Post by BeebMan2018 » Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:49 am

CMcDougall wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:19 am
so after being reminded about what happened with all my Plus1s & elks 2.5yr ago, it's the ABR!

you need another rom cartridge, then will be fine :D
Cant I Repair the one i have ?

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Re: Tape - MMSD CARD

Post by BeebMan2018 » Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:54 am

rharper wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 10:15 am
That beeb.mmb is an old one of mine which was under development - I did not realise it was out in the wild.
The Elite error is because that ssd is corrupt - I don't think it is accessed by the games menu which is probably on disc image 0 or 100.
The beeb.mmb to use is here viewtopic.php?f=3&t=12794, beeb.7z halfway down page 1. There is an updated elk-games.ssd (a bit quicker screen display) top of page 2 which can replace the original using mmbimager.

Ray
Hi Ray, im quite new to the Electron 'scene' so im not very proficiant with command structure or terminology etc yet. Can you guide me through what i need to do to restore the ABR ? If its a physical fault can it not be repaired ? How do i test it to find out if its software or hardware fault ? The beeb.mmb was working fine for me. it might have been beta release but it worked and i didnt care about anything elese. Somehow this is no longer the casse and i would like to find out what happpened, how to fix it and how to ensure it wont happen again !

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Re: Tape - MMSD CARD

Post by danielj » Sat Aug 31, 2019 2:05 pm

The ROM image is probably corrupted, the fix is to reinstall. If that doesn't work its time to try other things. That's the one and only thing you need to try to do at this point.

(and to prevent it in the future, make sure you've backed up what's on the ABR as originally suggested :))
Last edited by danielj on Sat Aug 31, 2019 2:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Tape - MMSD CARD

Post by BeebMan2018 » Sat Aug 31, 2019 4:15 pm

danielj wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 2:05 pm
The ROM image is probably corrupted, the fix is to reinstall. If that doesn't work its time to try other things. That's the one and only thing you need to try to do at this point.

(and to prevent it in the future, make sure you've backed up what's on the ABR as originally suggested :))
Hi daniel, I had a nagging recollection and on checking I DID do the backup think for the ABR Utilities so i have a cassette with the stuff on it. Now how do i get it back to the ABR ??? :/

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Re: Tape - MMSD CARD

Post by danielj » Sat Aug 31, 2019 4:27 pm

Excellent. What does it say in the manual? I can't read it on my phone.

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Re: Tape - MMSD CARD

Post by daveejhitchins » Sat Aug 31, 2019 4:39 pm

When you saved the contents of the ABR did you save them from the program that ran after typing *ABR ?

If you did then read the section describing *LOADROM.

you’ll need your tape/tapes of both the saved ABR utilities and the ROM image you need to re-load.

ABR utils tape first: /*run LOSDROM <file name> (this maybe wrong! Could someone verify or correct me, please? I’m not in a position to access a user guide!)
Change the tape and run it. I’ll have to give it a try when I get some free time!

Can’t say I’ve ever done this, so I maybe giving you wrong information, sorry!!

Dave H :D
Parts: UM6502CE, GAL22V10D, GAL16V8D, AS6C62256A, TC514400AZ, WD1772, R6522, TMS27C512, AT28C256
Products: ARA II, ARA III, ABR, ATI, AP6, MGC, AP5 . . .
For a price list, contact me at: Retro Hardware AT dave ej hitchins DOT plus DOT com

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Re: Tape - MMSD CARD

Post by BeebMan2018 » Sat Aug 31, 2019 11:28 pm

daveejhitchins wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 4:39 pm
When you saved the contents of the ABR did you save them from the program that ran after typing *ABR ?

If you did then read the section describing *LOADROM.

you’ll need your tape/tapes of both the saved ABR utilities and the ROM image you need to re-load.

ABR utils tape first: /*run LOSDROM <file name> (this maybe wrong! Could someone verify or correct me, please? I’m not in a position to access a user guide!)
Change the tape and run it. I’ll have to give it a try when I get some free time!

Can’t say I’ve ever done this, so I maybe giving you wrong information, sorry!!

Dave H :D
I had a look at the manual and tryed to load but got errors Bad Program and another try gave No RAM so im eiter doing it wrong , which is most likely, or something is stuffed or maybe both ! I will wait for instruction as i have no clue what im doing currently regarding the ABR.

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Re: Tape - MMSD CARD

Post by sydney » Sun Sep 01, 2019 6:52 am

What commands did you try?
You say you 'did the backup thing for the ABR Utilities' but did you also backup the ABR ROM and the EMMFS ROM? What files are on the tape?

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Re: Tape - MMSD CARD

Post by danielj » Sun Sep 01, 2019 7:04 am

sydney wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 6:52 am
What commands did you try?
This. We can't tell you what you did wrong if you don't tell us what you did!

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Re: Tape - MMSD CARD

Post by daveejhitchins » Sun Sep 01, 2019 7:14 am

When using LOADROM the load sequence is: (1) find <file> (2) unlock ABR (3)load <file> (4) lock ABR

You could try unlocking your ABR first by typing:
?&FCDC=0 then ?&FCDE=0 - this will unlock the ABR regardless of which cartridge slot it’s in.

Then you can try LOADROM from tape again. The correct syntax is:
*/LOADROM <file name>

If that fails then we’ve 2 options: (1) I can make you a tape with the ABR test program on it (this would also load the utilities back onto the ABR) or (2) you could send me your ABR to check-out/repair?

Dave H :D
Parts: UM6502CE, GAL22V10D, GAL16V8D, AS6C62256A, TC514400AZ, WD1772, R6522, TMS27C512, AT28C256
Products: ARA II, ARA III, ABR, ATI, AP6, MGC, AP5 . . .
For a price list, contact me at: Retro Hardware AT dave ej hitchins DOT plus DOT com

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Re: Tape - MMSD CARD

Post by BeebMan2018 » Sun Sep 01, 2019 7:10 pm

sydney wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 6:52 am
What commands did you try?
You say you 'did the backup thing for the ABR Utilities' but did you also backup the ABR ROM and the EMMFS ROM? What files are on the tape?
:/ Alright i dont know what im doing concerning the ABR. Ive checked the tape and it has :-

!Boot
Lock
Unlock
SaveROM
LoadROM
PrintBuf
MakeROM
Zero
and
VldROM

If memory serves all i tryed to do is Load"LoadROM" and got the Bad Program error. I cant remember what command game me No RAM error. While i played with the Elk in my youth it was always about the games. Later in life i discovered the Amiga and then the PC off course. I attended college in my 20's and did some computer studies and programming courses but they were short and fast and a long time ago. I have very little knowledge concerning the Acorn Electron apart from what i'm learning from the User Guide and INPUT magazines :/ Sorry i cant be of more help :/ I'm more 'familiar' with PC architecture these days, even my commodore knowledge is getting faint :/

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Re: Tape - MMSD CARD

Post by BeebMan2018 » Sun Sep 01, 2019 8:27 pm

daveejhitchins wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 7:14 am
When using LOADROM the load sequence is: (1) find <file> (2) unlock ABR (3)load <file> (4) lock ABR

You could try unlocking your ABR first by typing:
?&FCDC=0 then ?&FCDE=0 - this will unlock the ABR regardless of which cartridge slot it’s in.

Then you can try LOADROM from tape again. The correct syntax is:
*/LOADROM <file name>

If that fails then we’ve 2 options: (1) I can make you a tape with the ABR test program on it (this would also load the utilities back onto the ABR) or (2) you could send me your ABR to check-out/repair?

Dave H :D
Hi Dave, The test tape ! What are the options for a digital download and then to record to cassette ? What equipment would i need to record to tape from pc ? Reason im asking is i am already wanting back on my electron and don't want to wait on snail mail. ! :) Also i wont learn anything if i let you do it for me :) Although i guess i will need guidance ! Let me know your thoughts.

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Re: Tape - MMSD CARD

Post by daveejhitchins » Sun Sep 01, 2019 9:33 pm

The longest time will be me preparing the tape, after that the one day postage will seem insignificant!!! I’m a bit tied up with a list of things to do, sorry.

I maybe able to get it done by Friday, otherwise at the weekend.

Dave H :D
Parts: UM6502CE, GAL22V10D, GAL16V8D, AS6C62256A, TC514400AZ, WD1772, R6522, TMS27C512, AT28C256
Products: ARA II, ARA III, ABR, ATI, AP6, MGC, AP5 . . .
For a price list, contact me at: Retro Hardware AT dave ej hitchins DOT plus DOT com

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Re: Tape - MMSD CARD

Post by sydney » Sun Sep 01, 2019 11:13 pm

There are no ROMS on that tape.
In the past I've managed to get a ROM onto tape from a PC but it's a bit long winded and it was 6 years ago so I don't remember actually doing it. Here's a link to the thread where I describe how to do it.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5214&p=59173&hilit=Upurs#p59173

You'll need both the ABR and EMMFS ROMS on the tape just in case they become corrupted in the future.

You might be better off waiting for Dave to do it for you.
Last edited by sydney on Sun Sep 01, 2019 11:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Tape - MMSD CARD

Post by BeebMan2018 » Mon Sep 02, 2019 3:54 pm

daveejhitchins wrote:
Sun Sep 01, 2019 9:33 pm
The longest time will be me preparing the tape, after that the one day postage will seem insignificant!!! I’m a bit tied up with a list of things to do, sorry.

I maybe able to get it done by Friday, otherwise at the weekend.

Dave H :D
Hi Dave, After looking at Sydneys guide I think I will wait for you to make a tape :/ I don't understand why this happened though :/ Its not as if i pulled the ABR out when the power was on so how come ? I didn't lift the ELk either. :/

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Re: Tape - MMSD CARD

Post by daveejhitchins » Mon Sep 02, 2019 5:35 pm

I’ll sort something out for you ASAP.

Dave H :D
Parts: UM6502CE, GAL22V10D, GAL16V8D, AS6C62256A, TC514400AZ, WD1772, R6522, TMS27C512, AT28C256
Products: ARA II, ARA III, ABR, ATI, AP6, MGC, AP5 . . .
For a price list, contact me at: Retro Hardware AT dave ej hitchins DOT plus DOT com

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Re: Tape - MMSD CARD

Post by BeebMan2018 » Tue Sep 03, 2019 9:37 pm

daveejhitchins wrote:
Mon Sep 02, 2019 5:35 pm
I’ll sort something out for you ASAP.

Dave H :D
Good man Dave ! :) Ive got a bit of reading to catch up on in the meantime anyway :)

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Re: Tape - MMSD CARD

Post by CMcDougall » Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:23 pm

found a ABR disc, & had file U: unlock/lock/romload , so used BeebEm414 to make a .UEF 'tape'

don't use FreeUEF as that only works with 30% of .UEF files, so use :
http://www.8bitkick.cc/playuef.html
and have laptop volume at 20-30%

worth a go..... :?

EDIT : http://playuef.8bitkick.cc/?LOCAL=true : use browse.... button to pick the file from your local HD drive
PPS, not tried BeebEm.uef maker on this, so can't confirm if 100%
Attachments
ABR unlock lock romload.uef
uef from BeebEm414
(1.57 KiB) Downloaded 7 times
Last edited by CMcDougall on Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tape - MMSD CARD

Post by daveejhitchins » Tue Sep 10, 2019 7:43 am

Paul ( BeebMan2018) should have a tape, with all he needs, today along with a Plus 1 Support ROM.

Dave H :D
Parts: UM6502CE, GAL22V10D, GAL16V8D, AS6C62256A, TC514400AZ, WD1772, R6522, TMS27C512, AT28C256
Products: ARA II, ARA III, ABR, ATI, AP6, MGC, AP5 . . .
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MMFS RESET / FORMAT / RESTORE / REPROGRAM ?

Post by BeebMan2018 » Wed Sep 11, 2019 1:00 am

OK Guys, Some of you will be aware i've a sick Elk System. So far we think the Elk itself is OK and the +1 Rom has been replaced. Thanks Dave. Ive also got a new 32Gb Micro SD Card. Need to try that next after format FAT 32 and fresh Beeb.mmb is copied onto it. I feel however that wont solve the issue and I'm going to be faced with flashing or reprogramming the ABR and putting a new MMFS on it. Am i even explaining this correctly ? Im not up to speed on the Acorn jargon yet :/ Sorry guys. So i've looked at the MMFS Wiki on git hub and partially scanned the BBC Disc Filing System User Guide but it confuses me to be honest as its a tad long winded and yea. Sooo maybe tomorrow i might want to tackle doing the mmfs on the abr. I have the tape with the utils and a version of mmfs and i've some instructions on loading it but i'm still unsure. I'm over thinking this. I always do this. but do i need to pull the battery first to reset it or do i need to erase the software on the ABR first some way.. ??? its late and i shouldn't post when its as late as this as i'm likely not thinking clearly but want to get it up to you guys before the morning so maybe i can get some advice by tomorrow evening so i might get a chance to tackle it. Been missing the ELK :)

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Re: MMFS RESET / FORMAT / RESTORE / REPROGRAM ?

Post by daveejhitchins » Wed Sep 11, 2019 1:46 pm

From the User Guide:
9 - PCB Jumpers
ABR: J3 – Remove to clear RAM. J4 – Remove to inhibit RAM.
ATI: J5 – Remove to clear RAM J6 – Remove to inhibit RAM.
J4 – 1 & 2 linked = RAM 1/3 mapped to sideways bank 13
J4 – 2 & 3 linked = Normal
So, one of two way to clear the ABR memory is to open-up the ABR and remove J3 - count to 10 - refit J3 and refit into the case.

A second way is just to issue the command (now you have the Plus 1 Support ROM): *ZERO <bank number*) UL - Clear both banks - If in doubt clear all 4!

* Back slot = 0/1 Front slot = 2/3

Once you've done that just try : *UROMS - This should list the ROMs you have in your machine. But more importantly it should reveal the ABR as containing RAM. Make a Note of which banks show-up as RAM - you'll need this for the loading, below.

If all works as described above then you can connect up your tape deck - and, from side B of the tape I sent you (you'll need to fit side B upmost and ensure you rewind it) issue the command: *LOADROM EMMFS <one of the bank numbers from above> UL - You should then be prompted to start your tape and press RETURN.

Once done: Ctrl/Brk followed by *ROMS - this should show EMMFS in the bank you specified.

Good luck - Dave H :D
Parts: UM6502CE, GAL22V10D, GAL16V8D, AS6C62256A, TC514400AZ, WD1772, R6522, TMS27C512, AT28C256
Products: ARA II, ARA III, ABR, ATI, AP6, MGC, AP5 . . .
For a price list, contact me at: Retro Hardware AT dave ej hitchins DOT plus DOT com

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