Tape - MMSD CARD/ABR reprogramming

discuss both original and modern hardware for the bbc micro/electron
BeebMan2018
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Tape - MMSD CARD/ABR reprogramming

Post by BeebMan2018 » Mon Aug 26, 2019 8:52 pm

Hey guys, OK So i've been away for a little bit but am back. Im happily bashing keys on the elk again :) I've hit a small snag though and rather than look it up all evening i'm just gonna let the www do it for me :) So my problem is this. I have a plus 1 fitted to the elk and i've a 'mmec' card thing in the cart slot but i don't really use it much its there to provide a disk os and that's about it. I have the SD card reader plugged into the printer port for storage and this is where i store my little programs. Now to access it i go *din2 and then *cat and i can see all the programs load and save. This was all i needed and i was happy :)

Now i want to swap back to cassette but don't know how ! I want to be able to *CAT some cassettes as i stored some progs on cas and would like to load them from cas to the elk and then save them back to the sd card. I'm still struggling with the os as i'm a windows vegetable and have forgotten how to use dos never mind mmdf errr . you know what i mean :/

Finally i want to tidy the sd card up and create dirs with folders so i can have a games dir and inside that have folders for arcade, adventure, puzzle and so forth and then another dir for utilities and inside that maybe calc,view, and maybe another dir for projects and another for .. you know whatever comes to mind as i progress . First i need to get programs off the cassette and onto sd card, then i need to tidy the sd card. do we have a concise booklet for this or is the info sort of spread over various books and manuals ?
Last edited by danielj on Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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CMcDougall
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Re: Tape - MMSD CARD

Post by CMcDougall » Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:18 pm

*TAPE
*OPT1,2
*L."" 2000
(Shows : file x y z)
*MMFS (or *CARD etc)
*SAVE file 2000+x z y
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Re: Tape - MMSD CARD

Post by flaxcottage » Mon Aug 26, 2019 9:38 pm

The SD card attached to the printer port will behave like 4 separate disk drives 0 - 3. To use one you can type *DRIVE n, where n is 0 -3 inclusive.

To load a particular image use the *DIN command, for example *DIN 15 will load the disk image from 'disk 15' into the currently selected drive. The contents of disk 15 can be anything which you decide. You can build a disk of your favourite games or you can put a single game on the disk image. You will not be able to have folders for different things as you would in ADFS or even on a PC as you are limited to the disk filing system fracilities. The best way to organise the SD card would be to have a separate disk or a series of disks for games, programming, etc. Name each disk then *DCAT will list what you have.
- John

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Re: Tape - MMSD CARD

Post by BeebMan2018 » Tue Aug 27, 2019 5:58 pm

Hey Guys, Thanks for the advice. I now seem to have a new problem. I'm not sure what i've done but i cant load anything now :/ All i get is :

ERROR : ERRPAGEPAGEDEFGETAL

I get his trying to load anything from on the SD Card or in the MMFS . :/

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Re: Tape - MMSD CARD

Post by CMcDougall » Tue Aug 27, 2019 8:30 pm

take off Plus1, then try loading a tape file, if ok, then elk is good.

try cleaning the elk gold fingers with a ink rubber then cleaner (WD40 / tesco 100% vodka!) & then plug plus1 in/out x20
turn on, & try again, might fix!
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Re: Tape - MMSD CARD

Post by BeebMan2018 » Tue Aug 27, 2019 11:01 pm

Ok Ive done as you instructed. With the +1 unplugged the Tape file loads fine ! Cleand the gold fingers with a rubber but this was done recently 2-3 months ago , but i did it again. Plugged and unpluged the +1 20 times. Just incase the female socket was a little corroded. It also seemed fine. Put it all back together nice and secured the two screws. *TAPE and the tape loaded fine again.
*DISK and went into SD Card. Still getting same error :/ DAMN.

Now what ?

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Re: Tape - MMSD CARD

Post by BeebMan2018 » Tue Aug 27, 2019 11:41 pm

CMcDougall wrote:
Tue Aug 27, 2019 8:30 pm
take off Plus1, then try loading a tape file, if ok, then elk is good.

try cleaning the elk gold fingers with a ink rubber then cleaner (WD40 / tesco 100% vodka!) & then plug plus1 in/out x20
turn on, & try again, might fix!
Done See post bellow :( Still not resolved :'(

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Re: Tape - MMSD CARD

Post by CMcDougall » Wed Aug 28, 2019 7:04 pm

try reading the SD card back on PC, see if BEEB.MMB file is ok, or just re format SD , put file back on it.

Chk again, if same, check wiring or MMFS Rom image....
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Re: Tape - MMSD CARD

Post by BeebMan2018 » Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:35 pm

CMcDougall wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 7:04 pm
try reading the SD card back on PC, see if BEEB.MMB file is ok, or just re format SD , put file back on it.

Chk again, if same, check wiring or MMFS Rom image....
Hey I've checked the BEEB.MMB File and it is there. Im assuming its like the entire file-system for the Elk ? Kinda like the Windows Folder on the PC ? Reason i say that is , its the only file the PC recognizes on the SD Card !. If this is the case and i format it and put a new MMB file on the SD card then all my programs i've written and stored are lost ? I would rather avoid this if i can so would like to cover my bases before going ahead with anything drastic. If its not the SD Card could it be the ROM image ? I've ZERO experience with the MM CARD and will need careful guidance if i'm to backup or restore it. One thing id like to say is that prior to the files failing to load some were appearing with $. preceding there name like there was some software glitch. This was on both the SD card and the MMFS Card so i'm thinking its not the SD card and might not be the MMFS card either and might be the +1 ? I don't know, i'm guessing but for them both to fail like this suggests to me its something other than either !

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Re: Tape - MMSD CARD

Post by CMcDougall » Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:57 pm

Copy file from card to PC in a different folder, or rename the file BeebORI, so you know that worked once upon a time.

or try another card, it might of got ill :-&

As using printer port, you need a 5v mod, check the card reader is still getting 4 to 5v (if you have a multi meter)
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Re: Tape - MMSD CARD

Post by BeebMan2018 » Thu Aug 29, 2019 2:36 pm

CMcDougall wrote:
Wed Aug 28, 2019 9:57 pm
Copy file from card to PC in a different folder, or rename the file BeebORI, so you know that worked once upon a time.

or try another card, it might of got ill :-&

As using printer port, you need a 5v mod, check the card reader is still getting 4 to 5v (if you have a multi meter)
Hey again, Can you confirm if i copy the Beeb.MMB file that it also contains my directory and programs within it ? Im conscerned that its just liek the Fat 32 on windows and links to my files which may or may not be recognized by windows and if i opnly copy the beeb.mmb then my files will still be on the sd card and lost when i format it ! ????

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Re: Tape - MMSD CARD

Post by danielj » Thu Aug 29, 2019 3:07 pm

beeb.mmb is a single file containing 512 disc images. You need to use different software to add/remove images from that file. If you've saved something to a disk image on the elk then it will be saved to an image which is stored in the beeb.mmb file.

d.

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Re: Tape - MMSD CARD

Post by BeebMan2018 » Fri Aug 30, 2019 12:25 am

danielj wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 3:07 pm
beeb.mmb is a single file containing 512 disc images. You need to use different software to add/remove images from that file. If you've saved something to a disk image on the elk then it will be saved to an image which is stored in the beeb.mmb file.

d.

What is this software and can it be run on a PC ? Also were do i obtain it etc ?

Also is there a need to check the 5v if the sd card contents is showing up ? Andy why is the mmfs got the same problem ? There's something weird here and i realize we need to eliminate possibilities but .. i think we can already eliminate them cant we ? I'm asking as i'm not sure and would like a greater or more detailed explanation please so i can understand what it is were doing to resolve the problem !
Last edited by BeebMan2018 on Fri Aug 30, 2019 8:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Tape - MMSD CARD

Post by rharper » Fri Aug 30, 2019 12:48 pm

MMC card interfaces connect to the user port and use a MMC or sometimes a SD card.
That card is formated FAT or sometimes FAT32 on a PC - depending on the ROM software used in the BBC.
A beeb.mmb file is copied to the root directory of the card - usually the only file on the card.
beeb.mmb files are available in various threads on this forum, commonly coming with a full set of games for the bbc.
The beeb.mmb file contains from 0 to 512 disc images - these are 200K DFS disc images that are available from threads here and named discname.ssd
These ssd files are put into the beeb.mmb file on a pc with the application mmbimager.exe which can open the beeb.mmb file and allow drag & drop of ssd files into any of the 512 disc image 'slots'. Also it allows ssd files to be copied from the beeb.mmb to the pc.

The ROMs like MMFS etc. are software that can access the beeb.mmb file on the bbc via the user port and has commands to allow loading of selected disc images, up to 4. These then work as if a floppy disc was present.
Hope this helps (and is correct!).
Ray :)
Last edited by rharper on Fri Aug 30, 2019 12:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tape - MMSD CARD

Post by BeebMan2018 » Fri Aug 30, 2019 1:36 pm

rharper wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 12:48 pm
MMC card interfaces connect to the user port and use a MMC or sometimes a SD card.
That card is formated FAT or sometimes FAT32 on a PC - depending on the ROM software used in the BBC.
A beeb.mmb file is copied to the root directory of the card - usually the only file on the card.
beeb.mmb files are available in various threads on this forum, commonly coming with a full set of games for the bbc.
The beeb.mmb file contains from 0 to 512 disc images - these are 200K DFS disc images that are available from threads here and named discname.ssd
These ssd files are put into the beeb.mmb file on a pc with the application mmbimager.exe which can open the beeb.mmb file and allow drag & drop of ssd files into any of the 512 disc image 'slots'. Also it allows ssd files to be copied from the beeb.mmb to the pc.

The ROMs like MMFS etc. are software that can access the beeb.mmb file on the bbc via the user port and has commands to allow loading of selected disc images, up to 4. These then work as if a floppy disc was present.
Hope this helps (and is correct!).
Ray :)
Thanks Ray, I will format my SD Card now and put in a new beeb.mmb file to see if that works. I still need to figgure out how to read the old mmb file to retrieve my programs. However if i prove that the new mmb works then all is good apart from retrival of my programs. However if the new mmb fails after a format then i need to try a new sd card. If the new sd card fails then i dont know where to go from there ! Is the error not usefull in anyway to help determine the cause of the malfunction ?

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Re: Tape - MMSD CARD

Post by BeebMan2018 » Fri Aug 30, 2019 4:35 pm

OK GUYS, Ive formatted my SD Card and coppied the Beeb.MMB to it again and loaded the elk. *DISK,*DCAT,*DIN100,*CAT,LOAD"GMENU". ERROR !!!!!!

So i tried various other folders. Elite, Arcadians etc all give same error as before. I really do not think its the sdcard though as its brand new bought for the Beeb.MMB. I've another on its way but it might be next week now before its here.

Instructions please ! ?

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Re: Tape - MMSD CARD

Post by rharper » Fri Aug 30, 2019 5:36 pm

It's not clear when you are getting 'ERROR' and you mention folders - there are no folders in this system. There are disc images and possibly directories in those images accessed with *DIR dirname, though commonly SSD files only have a root directory $, any others will be a single character, A or B etc. since this is a DFS system.
Is the error after you type LOAD"GMENU" and press RETURN or when you try to RUN the loaded file?

With respect to your files in the beeb.mmb file these should be recoverable by copying the appropriate ssd off that beeb.mmb file to a PC with MMBimager. Then loading the ssd into Beeb Image from http://www.cowsarenotpurple.co.uk/beeb-image.html. This software lets you copy the files from the ssd to the PC and vice versa. I think a registered version of DFSexplorer can do the same.
Ray
Last edited by rharper on Fri Aug 30, 2019 5:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Tape - MMSD CARD

Post by 0xC0DE » Fri Aug 30, 2019 5:59 pm

A screenshot of the commands you typed and the error you get would be helpful.
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Re: Tape - MMSD CARD

Post by BeebMan2018 » Fri Aug 30, 2019 6:44 pm

rharper wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 5:36 pm
It's not clear when you are getting 'ERROR' and you mention folders - there are no folders in this system. There are disc images and possibly directories in those images accessed with *DIR dirname, though commonly SSD files only have a root directory $, any others will be a single character, A or B etc. since this is a DFS system.
Is the error after you type LOAD"GMENU" and press RETURN or when you try to RUN the loaded file?

With respect to your files in the beeb.mmb file these should be recoverable by copying the appropriate ssd off that beeb.mmb file to a PC with MMBimager. Then loading the ssd into Beeb Image from http://www.cowsarenotpurple.co.uk/beeb-image.html. This software lets you copy the files from the ssd to the PC and vice versa. I think a registered version of DFSexplorer can do the same.
Ray
Ahhh sorry for not using the correct terminology. I meant directories. I get the error any time i try to load a file. I can navigate through the disk directories but as soon as i try to load anything it get the Error : ERRORERRROR......GETAL as mentioned. I will try to post a screenshot in a bit showing whats happening.

Ive downloaded beeb image from the source indicated and tryed to load beeb.mmb but it dosent seee the file on my desktop :/

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Re: Tape - MMSD CARD

Post by BeebMan2018 » Fri Aug 30, 2019 8:23 pm

SAM_3593.JPG
SAM_3594.JPG
SAM_3595.JPG
SAM_3596.JPG
SAM_3597.JPG
SAM_3598.JPG

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Re: Tape - MMSD CARD

Post by BeebMan2018 » Fri Aug 30, 2019 8:25 pm

0xC0DE wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 5:59 pm
A screenshot of the commands you typed and the error you get would be helpful.
Pictures of issue. This time when i first booted the boot screen failed to load BASIC before the command prompt. Switchin it off and on again resolved that though. Still got the failure to load however.

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Re: Tape - MMSD CARD

Post by 0xC0DE » Fri Aug 30, 2019 8:54 pm

What happens if you do SHIFT+BREAK right after *DIN 99 to try to auto boot Elite?

Btw, I am testing on the same setup as you are.
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Re: Tape - MMSD CARD

Post by 0xC0DE » Fri Aug 30, 2019 8:59 pm

What is the value of PAGE?

Code: Select all

PRINT ~PAGE
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Re: Tape - MMSD CARD

Post by 0xC0DE » Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:01 pm

And after *DIN 99 what does the following command show?

Code: Select all

*INFO *.*
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Re: Tape - MMSD CARD

Post by CMcDougall » Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:10 pm

your plus1 is fried.... somewhere :(

there must of been a loose connection, or you moved the elk /plus1 when it was doing something :|

my old rubbish Plus3 did that also, I had to rename files <3 chars, then it worked :lol:
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Re: Tape - MMSD CARD

Post by danielj » Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:25 pm

Or the ROM is corrupted in the ABR?

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Re: Tape - MMSD CARD

Post by BeebMan2018 » Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:40 pm

0xC0DE wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 8:54 pm
What happens if you do SHIFT+BREAK right after *DIN 99 to try to auto boot Elite?

Btw, I am testing on the same setup as you are.
Thanks for your help. I dont know what i would do without it ! :) This is what i get !

It resets back to BASIC and then gives same error.
SAM_3599.JPG

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Re: Tape - MMSD CARD

Post by BeebMan2018 » Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:45 pm

0xC0DE wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 8:59 pm
What is the value of PAGE?

Code: Select all

PRINT ~PAGE
1900

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Re: Tape - MMSD CARD

Post by BeebMan2018 » Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:47 pm

0xC0DE wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:01 pm
And after *DIN 99 what does the following command show?

Code: Select all

*INFO *.*
SAM_3600.JPG

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Re: Tape - MMSD CARD

Post by BeebMan2018 » Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:53 pm

danielj wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:25 pm
Or the ROM is corrupted in the ABR?
How do i test that ?

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