My New BBC Master

for bbc micro/electron hardware, peripherals & programming issues (NOT emulators!)
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SpaceFlightOrange
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My New BBC Master

Post by SpaceFlightOrange » Wed Apr 10, 2019 8:44 am

I shared this in the "Today I received..." Thread, but I had to share it again!!

I'm so chuffed with this, and a little bit confused.

The case belies what is inside. I bought it from a computer disposal company, I was able to collect as they are only down the road from work.
I have no idea where it came from, but my guess is a lab of some sort, rather than a school, given the obvious lack of abuse it's had.
IMG_1962.JPG
Its a bog standard Master, but inside it looks brand new!
IMG_1963.JPG
The pins on the chips are still shiny
IMG_1972.JPG
IMG_1971.JPG
I've made up a replacement battery pack, utilising the diode/resistor combo from the original pack, and everything seems to work perfectly. the X2's in the PSU are of the non-exploding variety, so I've left them in for the time being and the startup is quick and clean, so I think C9 is ok.
IMG_1968.jpg
Stunt Car Racer is amazing!!
IMG_1973.jpg
I really want to put my VideoNuLa in this but i don't think I'm ready to desolder the ULA just yet.

I have a couple of questions.

Is this unusual, to find a 30 year-old beeb in this kind of condition internally?

Any tips for getting rid of the pen on the case and other cleaning up of the scratches (below the pen, it looks like someone has attempted to scratch out a number or something)?

Any tips for desoldering the ULA?

Also, I'm thinking of getting a RetroClinic MultiOS. does this contain everything that's on the MegaRom (View, ViewSheet, Edit, etc)?

Thanks
James

BBC Model A Issue 3 (Upgraded to Model B, had it since I was a kid), Opus Dual 40/80 FDD, Watford Mouse, Voltmace delta 14/B, Gotek, IFEL ROMRAM-B4, Pi-Zero CoPro

Master 128, VideoNuLA, Gotek

VectorEyes
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Re: My New BBC Master

Post by VectorEyes » Wed Apr 10, 2019 8:53 am

It's pretty normal to find Masters in that sort of condition. I've seen several and about half looked untouched inside, apart from the battery pack which always leaks, and the casing around the UHF modulator which is prone to rust.

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danielj
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Re: My New BBC Master

Post by danielj » Wed Apr 10, 2019 8:58 am

Desoldering the ula... If you're not adept with sucker and don't have a vacuum desoldering station, it's snip the legs close to the IC and remove one at a time... However, I really can't condone destroying a working chip that's out of production and could be used to save other machines :(

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SpaceFlightOrange
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Re: My New BBC Master

Post by SpaceFlightOrange » Wed Apr 10, 2019 9:05 am

danielj wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 8:58 am
Desoldering the ula... If you're not adept with sucker and don't have a vacuum desoldering station, it's snip the legs close to the IC and remove one at a time... However, I really can't condone destroying a working chip that's out of production and could be used to save other machines :(
Im ok with desoldering, generally, I think, but because I've only just got this, I don't want to risk ruining it.

I totally agree, I certainly wouldn't be prepared to ruin the ULA. which brings me onto a another question. Would the ULA in the Master work in my Issue 3 Model A (upgraded to B)? I have the VideoNuLa in there right now, but if I take that out i don't really want to put the Ferranti ULA back in.
Last edited by SpaceFlightOrange on Wed Apr 10, 2019 9:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
James

BBC Model A Issue 3 (Upgraded to Model B, had it since I was a kid), Opus Dual 40/80 FDD, Watford Mouse, Voltmace delta 14/B, Gotek, IFEL ROMRAM-B4, Pi-Zero CoPro

Master 128, VideoNuLA, Gotek

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SpaceFlightOrange
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Re: My New BBC Master

Post by SpaceFlightOrange » Wed Apr 10, 2019 9:08 am

VectorEyes wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 8:53 am
It's pretty normal to find Masters in that sort of condition. I've seen several and about half looked untouched inside, apart from the battery pack which always leaks, and the casing around the UHF modulator which is prone to rust.
The modulator is the only thing that's showing signs of tarnishing. In fact it had a load of fine metal particles attached to the sides! I thought the sides were anodised at first given how it sparkled. I've cleaned them off.
James

BBC Model A Issue 3 (Upgraded to Model B, had it since I was a kid), Opus Dual 40/80 FDD, Watford Mouse, Voltmace delta 14/B, Gotek, IFEL ROMRAM-B4, Pi-Zero CoPro

Master 128, VideoNuLA, Gotek

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kieranhj
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Re: My New BBC Master

Post by kieranhj » Wed Apr 10, 2019 10:28 am

SpaceFlightOrange wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 8:44 am
Stunt Car Racer is amazing!!

Any tips for getting rid of the pen on the case and other cleaning up of the scratches (below the pen, it looks like someone has attempted to scratch out a number or something)?
Glad you're enjoying the game! :)

For the pen, I was introduced to 'magic sponge' by sbadger. It sounds too good to be true but is scarily effective. A permanent marker may take a good few passes but certainly worth a try in my experience.
Bitshifters Collective | Retro Code & Demos for BBC Micro & Acorn computers | https://bitshifters.github.io/

ChadsArcade
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Re: My New BBC Master

Post by ChadsArcade » Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:48 am

Hairspray is also good for removing some types of permanent marker. I had some graffiti on a space invaders tabletop, tried all sorts and nothing would shift it. Tried spraying on some hairspray after reading about it on the internet and it wiped right off.

Edit: Also, if that's sticker residue on the top corner then WD-40 should shift it nicely.
Last edited by ChadsArcade on Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:51 am, edited 1 time in total.

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flaxcottage
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Re: My New BBC Master

Post by flaxcottage » Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:04 pm

SpaceFlightOrange wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 8:44 am
Also, I'm thinking of getting a RetroClinic MultiOS. does this contain everything that's on the MegaRom (View, ViewSheet, Edit, etc)?

Thanks
Yes, as far as I can tell. I don't use the View ROMs or Edit - always have them unplugged. :roll:
- John

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SpaceFlightOrange
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Re: My New BBC Master

Post by SpaceFlightOrange » Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:52 pm

kieranhj wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 10:28 am
Glad you're enjoying the game! :)

For the pen, I was introduced to 'magic sponge' by sbadger. It sounds too good to be true but is scarily effective. A permanent marker may take a good few passes but certainly worth a try in my experience.
It's brilliant! Was one of my favourite games on the Amiga. you did an amazing job! Does it support Rob's VideoNula?

Thanks for the tip, I have a feeling we have some of that in the cleaning cupboard. I'll give it a go.
James

BBC Model A Issue 3 (Upgraded to Model B, had it since I was a kid), Opus Dual 40/80 FDD, Watford Mouse, Voltmace delta 14/B, Gotek, IFEL ROMRAM-B4, Pi-Zero CoPro

Master 128, VideoNuLA, Gotek

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SpaceFlightOrange
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Re: My New BBC Master

Post by SpaceFlightOrange » Wed Apr 10, 2019 12:54 pm

ChadsArcade wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 11:48 am
Hairspray is also good for removing some types of permanent marker. I had some graffiti on a space invaders tabletop, tried all sorts and nothing would shift it. Tried spraying on some hairspray after reading about it on the internet and it wiped right off.

Edit: Also, if that's sticker residue on the top corner then WD-40 should shift it nicely.
Thanks, I'll give that a go.

Thanks for all the tips, folks!
James

BBC Model A Issue 3 (Upgraded to Model B, had it since I was a kid), Opus Dual 40/80 FDD, Watford Mouse, Voltmace delta 14/B, Gotek, IFEL ROMRAM-B4, Pi-Zero CoPro

Master 128, VideoNuLA, Gotek

RobC
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Re: My New BBC Master

Post by RobC » Wed Apr 10, 2019 2:27 pm

Nice machine - well done!
SpaceFlightOrange wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 8:44 am
Any tips for desoldering the ULA?
I've removed a good number of Video ULAs from Masters and have managed to remove the ULA intact from each one.

I use a desoldering pump with a flexible nozzle. I use lots of flux and apply new solder to any joint that doesn't clean up on the first pass.

Once all the joints on the underside have had the solder removed, I use the tip of my iron (making sure it's free from solder) to free the pins so that they sit in the middle of the holes. I then turn the board over and use the pump or desoldering braid to remove as much solder as possible from the top of the pins. Again, flux helps with the solder removal. As you might expect, I usually find that the pins connected to the power rails are the most stubborn.

When I'm satisfied that I've removed as much solder as I can and that all the pins are free, I try to gently prise the ULA away from the board. If it doesn't move easily, I check the pins again and remove any solder that's holding it in place.

Once the ULA is out, I refill the holes with new solder and clean them out again before fitting the socket.

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SpaceFlightOrange
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Re: My New BBC Master

Post by SpaceFlightOrange » Wed Apr 10, 2019 10:41 pm

Thanks for the detailed description, Rob. Really appreciated. If I haven’t plucked up the courage by the end of the month, i’ll Bring it to the Wakefield show for you to do :lol:
Last edited by SpaceFlightOrange on Wed Apr 10, 2019 10:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
James

BBC Model A Issue 3 (Upgraded to Model B, had it since I was a kid), Opus Dual 40/80 FDD, Watford Mouse, Voltmace delta 14/B, Gotek, IFEL ROMRAM-B4, Pi-Zero CoPro

Master 128, VideoNuLA, Gotek

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danielj
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Re: My New BBC Master

Post by danielj » Wed Apr 10, 2019 10:43 pm

I'll bring the desoldering station to Wakefield... It'll make short work of any wayward DIPs ...

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KenLowe
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Re: My New BBC Master

Post by KenLowe » Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:54 am

I use a desoldering pump to remove the worst of the solder, then give the underside of the PCB a blast with a hot air gun whilst at the same time using a small flat blade screwdriver gently lever the chip on the other side of the PCB. Once the solder is sufficiently melted, and the chip starts to work free, I then use a long nose pliers to lift the chip out. The key is to have a sufficiently large nozzle on the heat gun to ensure the heat is spread evenly across all pins.

Once out, I then clean up the holes in the same way as Rob.

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SpaceFlightOrange
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Re: My New BBC Master

Post by SpaceFlightOrange » Thu Apr 11, 2019 10:09 am

danielj wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 10:43 pm
I'll bring the desoldering station to Wakefield... It'll make short work of any wayward DIPs ...
Cool.

If i haven't plucked up the courage by then, would it be ok to bring it along?
James

BBC Model A Issue 3 (Upgraded to Model B, had it since I was a kid), Opus Dual 40/80 FDD, Watford Mouse, Voltmace delta 14/B, Gotek, IFEL ROMRAM-B4, Pi-Zero CoPro

Master 128, VideoNuLA, Gotek

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SpaceFlightOrange
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Re: My New BBC Master

Post by SpaceFlightOrange » Thu Apr 11, 2019 10:18 am

Cleaned up. Looking much better now. The Magic eraser was a brilliant suggestion, @Kieranhj, Thanks. Unfortunately it didn't get rid of the pen but took everything else off, no bother. I haven't tried the hairspray trick yet, will do that next.
IMG_1978.jpg
The magic eraser even got the original plug looking like new!
IMG_1980 (1).jpg
All Keycaps removed and cleaned too.

might redrobright it at some point, but really happy with it how it turned out
James

BBC Model A Issue 3 (Upgraded to Model B, had it since I was a kid), Opus Dual 40/80 FDD, Watford Mouse, Voltmace delta 14/B, Gotek, IFEL ROMRAM-B4, Pi-Zero CoPro

Master 128, VideoNuLA, Gotek

RobC
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Re: My New BBC Master

Post by RobC » Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:39 pm

SpaceFlightOrange wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 10:41 pm
Thanks for the detailed description, Rob. Really appreciated. If I haven’t plucked up the courage by the end of the month, i’ll Bring it to the Wakefield show for you to do :lol:
By all means do - I'm sure that between us, Daniel and I can get it sorted.

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SpaceFlightOrange
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Re: My New BBC Master

Post by SpaceFlightOrange » Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:57 pm

RobC wrote:
Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:39 pm
SpaceFlightOrange wrote:
Wed Apr 10, 2019 10:41 pm
Thanks for the detailed description, Rob. Really appreciated. If I haven’t plucked up the courage by the end of the month, i’ll Bring it to the Wakefield show for you to do :lol:
By all means do - I'm sure that between us, Daniel and I can get it sorted.
Cool! I was kidding, but that would be great, thanks
James

BBC Model A Issue 3 (Upgraded to Model B, had it since I was a kid), Opus Dual 40/80 FDD, Watford Mouse, Voltmace delta 14/B, Gotek, IFEL ROMRAM-B4, Pi-Zero CoPro

Master 128, VideoNuLA, Gotek

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