What are people happy soldering ?

for bbc micro/electron hardware, peripherals & programming issues (NOT emulators!)

Can you select the hardest you can mange ?

I can't solder so I would get someone else to do it.
3
6%
Board uses conventional through hole parts and a ribbon cable
17
35%
Board uses smaller 1/8 watt resistors (so you might not have them in stock)
6
12%
Board uses 1206 SMT resistors and SOT23 devices
2
4%
Board uses SMT ICs (1.27mm)
6
12%
Board uses SMT ICs ( 1mm)
1
2%
Board uses SMT ICs ( 0.65mm)
14
29%
 
Total votes: 49

dp11
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What are people happy soldering ?

Post by dp11 » Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:29 pm

I'm planning a new little project which I think will create some interest.

I'd like it to be able to fit under a Master, but the master gap too small for the simple easy to solder design so I'm after feedback of the best way to get as much potential users as possible.
Last edited by dp11 on Fri Sep 21, 2018 7:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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jms2
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Re: What are people happy soldering ?

Post by jms2 » Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:47 pm

I'd have voted for "through hole", but actually I have soldered the SMT ICs onto the PiTube Direct level shifter with no problems. I don't know what kind of SMT those were though! So I voted for 1.27mm. Might have been less than that.

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danielj
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Re: What are people happy soldering ?

Post by danielj » Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:00 pm

If you can do 1.27 you can do 0.65 :)

d.

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Re: What are people happy soldering ?

Post by philb » Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:10 pm

jms2 wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:47 pm
I'd have voted for "through hole", but actually I have soldered the SMT ICs onto the PiTube Direct level shifter with no problems. I don't know what kind of SMT those were though! So I voted for 1.27mm. Might have been less than that.
I'm not quite sure what ICs were on that board but if they were 74 series in an SOIC20 package then yes, that's 1.27mm pitch. But, I doubt you would find that the quarter of a millimetre going down to 1mm pitch was a deal-breaker, and in fact as Daniel says if you can solder 1.27mm then, if the chips were down (pun not intended) you could almost certainly do 0.65mm.

Not that I can remember the last time I actually did have to hand-solder an 0.65mm component. Perhaps I'm getting too old for this stuff. 8)

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Elminster
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Re: What are people happy soldering ?

Post by Elminster » Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:26 pm

I guess the smallest pitch I have done is whatever is on the BeebSCSI. Seemed pretty small. They weren't too bad. But I dont find the ICs too hard, it is the weird ones with inaccesible pads and you dont have solder paste to hand that are hard.
Last edited by Elminster on Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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jgharston
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Re: What are people happy soldering ?

Post by jgharston » Fri Sep 21, 2018 10:49 pm

What's all this millimetre nonsense? Standard 0.1 inch stripboard. :)

Code: Select all

$ bbcbasic
PDP11 BBC BASIC IV Version 0.25
(C) Copyright J.G.Harston 1989,2005-2015
>_

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danielj
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Re: What are people happy soldering ?

Post by danielj » Sat Sep 22, 2018 6:18 am

Elminster wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:26 pm
I guess the smallest pitch I have done is whatever is on the BeebSCSI. Seemed pretty small. They weren't too bad. But I dont find the ICs too hard, it is the weird ones with inaccesible pads and you dont have solder paste to hand that are hard.
Those are 0.65. If you're thinking about the sd socket on the beebscsi, the trick is to tin the pads, cover it in flux, place the socket in the right position and then hot air it whilst applying light pressure with tweezers. Pasting without the paste :D

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Re: What are people happy soldering ?

Post by CMcDougall » Sat Sep 22, 2018 8:27 am

I like making DaveH boards =D> , but glad he puts on the very small components with hardly (1mm) gaps between fingers! 8) (as can't do)
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Elminster
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Re: What are people happy soldering ?

Post by Elminster » Sat Sep 22, 2018 8:38 am

danielj wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 6:18 am

Those are 0.65. If you're thinking about the sd socket on the beebscsi, the trick is to tin the pads, cover it in flux, place the socket in the right position and then hot air it whilst applying light pressure with tweezers. Pasting without the paste :D
Yep. I did that for the tant’s, but because the sd card was last thing I did, I didn’t use hot air as had visions of all the other components falling off :) I do have some paste to try on the third one. Surprised you did(not) go crazy with all the beebscsi you build.

Perhaps we should save up for an ABUG flow oven.
Last edited by Elminster on Sat Sep 22, 2018 8:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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danielj
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Re: What are people happy soldering ?

Post by danielj » Sat Sep 22, 2018 8:46 am

I did a bit. You can probably see why I said "no more!" :D

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KenLowe
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Re: What are people happy soldering ?

Post by KenLowe » Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:15 am

I voted for thru hole, because that's what I'm most comfortable with, but I have ventured into the SMT world occasionally.
jgharston wrote:
Fri Sep 21, 2018 10:49 pm
What's all this millimetre nonsense? Standard 0.1 inch stripboard. :)
Oooh. That almost sounds like Brexit talk :D :D :D
Last edited by KenLowe on Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:18 am, edited 1 time in total.

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danielj
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Re: What are people happy soldering ?

Post by danielj » Sat Sep 22, 2018 9:30 am

Careful now, let's not waltz into politicalness - that way madness lies! Retrocomputing forum about retrocomputing :)

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Re: What are people happy soldering ?

Post by guddler » Sat Sep 22, 2018 10:57 am

Soldering is one thing, I have done fine qfp like cirrus logic gpus before - by hand. Having stuff to hand and in stock is another entirely. The only stuff I have is what’s left over from building my modern Amiga and its accelerators. All my usual stuff is through hole.

SMT comes out way neater in the end though. I made up some adapters for the DE1 board once and all the resistors were smt. Very neat :)

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jonb
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Re: What are people happy soldering ?

Post by jonb » Sat Sep 22, 2018 11:12 am

There wasn't a 0.8mm pitch option which is the smallest I have soldered, so I chose .65mm.

I can do it, but I don't really like it!

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Re: What are people happy soldering ?

Post by VincentVega » Sat Sep 22, 2018 12:19 pm

Through-hole for me. There's something about SMT that make me want to run a mile in the opposite direction.
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danielj
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Re: What are people happy soldering ?

Post by danielj » Sat Sep 22, 2018 2:02 pm

I seriously recommend people try a bit of surface mount - it's actually much easier than it looks and it's so much neater!

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Re: What are people happy soldering ?

Post by colonel32 » Sat Sep 22, 2018 2:21 pm

I actually managed to solder one of these the other day, using a fine pointy tip. It actually worked, as well. At least after I spent ages prodding at it with multimeter probes to find out why it didn't work, which must have brushed a whisker away. LOL. Anyway, quite chuffed.

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Elminster
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Re: What are people happy soldering ?

Post by Elminster » Sat Sep 22, 2018 2:26 pm

danielj wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 2:02 pm
I seriously recommend people try a bit of surface mount - it's actually much easier than it looks and it's so much neater!
Agreed. A quick tutorial from Dave H. A while ago was all I need for confidence. Now I just drag solder, originally I was soldering each pin individually which takes ages. You can drag solder a 64 pin 0.65 package in mins.

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Re: What are people happy soldering ?

Post by guesser » Sat Sep 22, 2018 2:28 pm

colonel32 wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 2:21 pm
using a fine pointy tip.
There's your mistake :wink:
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Elminster
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Re: What are people happy soldering ?

Post by Elminster » Sat Sep 22, 2018 2:34 pm

guesser wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 2:28 pm
colonel32 wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 2:21 pm
using a fine pointy tip.
There's your mistake :wink:
Indeed. I use a fine bevel for smd components but to drag an IC I use the same bevel tip I use for through hole. If I don’t I cant get the heat to keep the solder melted while dragging (thermal mass and all that jargon). Even with low melt solder.

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Re: What are people happy soldering ?

Post by guesser » Sat Sep 22, 2018 5:15 pm

That and trying to touch one tiny point to another tiny point is how you make all those melty stab marks in the insulator, at least if your hands are as wobbly as mine :D
I've got a chisel tip on mine and dab and wipe.
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Re: What are people happy soldering ?

Post by colonel32 » Sat Sep 22, 2018 11:01 pm

I’m seeing people talk about hoof tips with a concave cup to hold solder. Slightly confused about which tip to try. Can someone give me a specific hakko number they recommend please?

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Re: What are people happy soldering ?

Post by danielj » Sun Sep 23, 2018 7:30 am

There are two I use are T18-C2 and T18-D24 - it doesn't matter if you get too much solder on, it's easy enough to remove the excess with braid. Key is lots of liquid flux before you hit it with the solder that's stuck to the iron :)

d.

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Elminster
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Re: What are people happy soldering ?

Post by Elminster » Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:42 am

I mainly use these

Aoyue heat element chisel tips

They may work in Hakkos, not sure. But think I read somewhere they do.

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Re: What are people happy soldering ?

Post by sirmorris » Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:55 am

I use Hakko T18-C3. The idea that you need a tiny tip for fine work is nonsense. A tiny tip won't deliver the heat you need. It's all about the flux. Also like Daniel said don't use huge amounts of solder. In the video below I'm just using a tips worth. If you connect 2 pins then just either drag it again - after adding more flux - or pull it away slowly with the flat of the iron.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKU10cH9rV4
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danielj
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Re: What are people happy soldering ?

Post by danielj » Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:00 am

Yup. I find if I've overdone it I can just drag all the excess up to one end and wick it off. Did we mention flux? Flux. Flux flux.

I have no idea if those aoyue tips fit a hakko (I think not), but the tips Charlie and I linked are the same, and for the hakko.

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Elminster
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Re: What are people happy soldering ?

Post by Elminster » Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:27 am

danielj wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:00 am
Yup. I find if I've overdone it I can just drag all the excess up to one end and wick it off. Did we mention flux? Flux. Flux flux.
Ditto. Plus a large supply of flux remover and/or IPA to remove horrid sticky mess you get left with!
I have no idea if those aoyue tips fit a hakko (I think not), but the tips Charlie and I linked are the same, and for the hakko.
The blurb says
Reconciling also compatibly to Hakko, Xytronic and Gordak devices.
But not which models, and I don’t have a Hakko, so no idea. I only drool over JCL, I don’t like the athestics of the Hakko, I can never get over the fact it looks like ‘my first soldering iron’ and is something you give to 10 year olds.
Last edited by Elminster on Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: What are people happy soldering ?

Post by danielj » Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:54 am

Elminster wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 9:27 am
But not which models, and I don’t have a Hakko, so no idea. I only drool over JCL, I don’t like the athestics of the Hakko, I can never get over the fact it looks like ‘my first soldering iron’ and is something you give to 10 year olds.
I had that with Windows XP...
You can get it in silver if you really want :D - worth getting over that though, they're the best value and best quality irons at that end of the market :)
Last edited by danielj on Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: What are people happy soldering ?

Post by AndyF » Sun Sep 23, 2018 11:03 am

I would surmise that 'potential solderer's' will possibly baulk at the thought of SMT's, those who perhaps rarely solder the odd DIN plug on or whatever.

I am myself not up on the SMT sizes you mention although I do not mind the larger SM devices, provided there are not too many as (to be honest) for me too annoying to have to do more than a couple of them. Regular or say the 'mini size' resistors/capacitors (just small ones, not Surface mount types!) are not a concern. :)

Its possible the poll may of confused some with the sizes specified. Perhaps (random suggestion) you include a small pic or three showing the different sizes in comparison to say a regular resistor or something familiar (6/8 pin IC) so those who are "not sure" can immediately see "something to compare" :mrgreen:
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Elminster
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Re: What are people happy soldering ?

Post by Elminster » Sun Sep 23, 2018 11:58 am

danielj wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 10:54 am


I had that with Windows XP...
You can get it in silver if you really want :D - worth getting over that though, they're the best value and best quality irons at that end of the market :)
Maybe, but Aoyue are on a par, so no point for n me buy Hakko, only way is up and JCL.

Edit: even hakko cant compete with Knock off hakko’s on eBay.
Last edited by Elminster on Sun Sep 23, 2018 12:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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