New econet setup

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Lardo Boffin
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Re: New econet setup

Post by Lardo Boffin » Tue Sep 25, 2018 12:45 pm

johnkenyon wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:31 am
The BBC B library should go to $.LIBRARY
The Master library files should go in $.LIBRARY1
If you're copying from an ADFS utilities/fs disc, it's a one for one copy - $.LIBRARY to $.LIBRARY

Note that you will have to change the access rights on these files - by default they will probably be WR/, hence inaccessible to anyone other than privileged users.
The correct rights should be LR/R (Back in the day you would stop the kiddies from accessing *VIEW and *REMOTE by setting the file attribute to LR/ )

IIRC, you then need to copy FindLib from $.LIBRARY1 to $.LIBRARY so that when you enable *OPT5,1 on a master 128/ET it can find the alternate library.

/John
Thanks again John. Is that $.LIBRARY from the perspective of the *I AM SYST log in from the model B workstation?
Atom, issue 5
BBC model B 32k issue 4, 16k sideways RAM, Watford 12 ROM board, Acorn 6502 coproc
BBC model B 32k issue 7, turboMMC, Opus Challenger 3 512k, Pi 3 coproc
USA Model B
BBC Master, Datacentre + HDD, pi co-proc, econet, NULA

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Re: New econet setup

Post by Lardo Boffin » Tue Sep 25, 2018 12:57 pm

I copied them to a library in the root of SYST and all seems well - not putting in the server number etc. did the trick. It finds the commands in library as a normal user and tells me there is insufficient access which is fine!
Last edited by Lardo Boffin on Tue Sep 25, 2018 12:59 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Atom, issue 5
BBC model B 32k issue 4, 16k sideways RAM, Watford 12 ROM board, Acorn 6502 coproc
BBC model B 32k issue 7, turboMMC, Opus Challenger 3 512k, Pi 3 coproc
USA Model B
BBC Master, Datacentre + HDD, pi co-proc, econet, NULA

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Re: New econet setup

Post by Lardo Boffin » Thu Sep 27, 2018 7:04 pm

Is it possible to copy from an MMC card to econet? My disc drives are playing up something chronic at the moment - endless disc faults coming up trying to cpoy the rest of the files. Not sure if the drives are dodgy or more likley the discs are.
I copied all of the files to an mmb file (after dusting off my turbo mmc) amd tried that but the card filing system is not natively recognised by the copy program. You can specify the type O for other and then type MMC (or possibly *CARD) but it doesn’t then do anything. Again possibly very picky on the syntax - I did try to look at the program but it is rather complex...
I have ordered a gotek (finally) but it would be good to get this finished!
Atom, issue 5
BBC model B 32k issue 4, 16k sideways RAM, Watford 12 ROM board, Acorn 6502 coproc
BBC model B 32k issue 7, turboMMC, Opus Challenger 3 512k, Pi 3 coproc
USA Model B
BBC Master, Datacentre + HDD, pi co-proc, econet, NULA

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flaxcottage
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Re: New econet setup

Post by flaxcottage » Thu Sep 27, 2018 8:27 pm

MMC card and Econet are incompatible. Both try to use the same workspace. :?
- John

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Re: New econet setup

Post by sweh » Fri Sep 28, 2018 12:22 am

flaxcottage wrote:
Thu Sep 27, 2018 8:27 pm
MMC card and Econet are incompatible. Both try to use the same workspace. :?
Unless you use the SWR version of MMFS...
Rgds
Stephen

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Lardo Boffin
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Re: New econet setup

Post by Lardo Boffin » Fri Sep 28, 2018 6:03 am

My USA beeb doesn’t have SWR so I guess I will wait for the gotek to arrive. At least then I will have a permanent reliable copying solution.
Atom, issue 5
BBC model B 32k issue 4, 16k sideways RAM, Watford 12 ROM board, Acorn 6502 coproc
BBC model B 32k issue 7, turboMMC, Opus Challenger 3 512k, Pi 3 coproc
USA Model B
BBC Master, Datacentre + HDD, pi co-proc, econet, NULA

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Re: New econet setup

Post by BeebMaster » Sat Sep 29, 2018 5:57 pm

Logcopy is I think the "official" Acorn utility for doing Net<>ADFS file transfers.

Although JGH's Treecopy is probably a better bet for doing this sort of thing, it can copy recursively, skip files, resume from a previous break point by judicious use of Skipping and then "All", and supports just about every filing system known to Acorn, including curiosities like Sunfish shares and RAFS.
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Re: New econet setup

Post by BeebMaster » Sat Sep 29, 2018 6:21 pm

flaxcottage wrote:
Thu Sep 27, 2018 8:27 pm
MMC card and Econet are incompatible. Both try to use the same workspace. :?
This may not apply in this particular case, as the Master is the file server and the BBC B is the user station, but I wonder if this might be solved in the case of a Master by using some of the configuration settings to reorganise the Econet workspace?

eg. *CONFIGURE SPACE increases PAGE by &200 so that any utility loading at/using page &E and &F still works
or *OPT 6,1 to increase PAGE by (another) &200 freeing up the Econet workspace at pages &B and &C.
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Re: New econet setup

Post by AndyF » Sat Sep 29, 2018 6:53 pm

I tend to use TreeCopy or sometimes CopyFiles, although there is a bugged version of the latter (as in more bugs than expected) in that it will list the same source and destination, you can immediately tell if you've got the 'bad one' as its in the blue banner area.

On a slightly more on topic note, some versions of WFSInit create a Library, Library1 and I think Utils (not sure) user too. I do have my original L3 5.25 floppy but no drive to check this although I do recall when looking at the Passwords file via *DUMP (yes I know) said user accounts were present! :D
Last edited by AndyF on Sat Sep 29, 2018 6:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New econet setup

Post by flaxcottage » Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:20 pm

BeebMaster wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 6:21 pm
flaxcottage wrote:
Thu Sep 27, 2018 8:27 pm
MMC card and Econet are incompatible. Both try to use the same workspace. :?
... but I wonder if this might be solved in the case of a Master by using some of the configuration settings to reorganise the Econet workspace?
The Master is OK with MMFS and Econet as the workspaces do not overlap. The MMFS uses the Econet workspace in page 3 I believe, so that the two file systems cannot coexist in a model B or B+. In a Master Econet file space is in private RAM and there is no conflict.
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Re: New econet setup

Post by jgharston » Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:40 am

flaxcottage wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:20 pm
BeebMaster wrote:
Sat Sep 29, 2018 6:21 pm
... but I wonder if this might be solved in the case of a Master by using some of the configuration settings to reorganise the Econet workspace?
The Master is OK with MMFS and Econet as the workspaces do not overlap. The MMFS uses the Econet workspace in page 3 I believe, so that the two file systems cannot coexist in a model B or B+. In a Master Econet file space is in private RAM and there is no conflict.
There's no Econet workspace in page 3, page 3 is the VDU workspace, CFS workspace and keyboard buffer.

My standard Master configuration is *OPT 6,1 and *CONFIGURE SPACE to put PAGE at &1200 so the same network utilities run on both the BBC and the Master instead of having to have Master-specific and BBC-specific utilities.

As an aside, I was checking SJFiler with some real disks and discovered some old email messages from with my BBC email program from way back in 1985. Naturally, I will have to integrate them into my email archive. :) Intriguingly, the earliest message says "this is the second message"!
Last edited by jgharston on Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:43 am, edited 2 times in total.

Code: Select all

$ bbcbasic
PDP11 BBC BASIC IV Version 0.25
(C) Copyright J.G.Harston 1989,2005-2015
>_

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Re: New econet setup

Post by jgharston » Tue Oct 02, 2018 12:07 am

jgharston wrote:
Sun Sep 30, 2018 1:40 am
As an aside, I was checking SJFiler with some real disks and discovered some old email messages from with my BBC email program from way back in 1985. Naturally, I will have to integrate them into my email archive. :) Intriguingly, the earliest message says "this is the second message"!
After some testing I confirmed my email program still works, so I've zipped it up and put it online: BeebMail.

It took some time checking the code as after that version I'd started updating it to add lots of bells and whistles to it, in the process messing it up :( and went down several rabbit holes tracking down the correct files. That was around about the era I was learning through experience "keep it simple!".

Code: Select all

$ bbcbasic
PDP11 BBC BASIC IV Version 0.25
(C) Copyright J.G.Harston 1989,2005-2015
>_

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Re: New econet setup

Post by Lardo Boffin » Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:50 am

Got a gotek from Retroclinic - superb bit of kit and wish I had bought one ages ago.

Using this I finished setting up the library etc.
in seconds. Sweet.
Atom, issue 5
BBC model B 32k issue 4, 16k sideways RAM, Watford 12 ROM board, Acorn 6502 coproc
BBC model B 32k issue 7, turboMMC, Opus Challenger 3 512k, Pi 3 coproc
USA Model B
BBC Master, Datacentre + HDD, pi co-proc, econet, NULA

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Re: New econet setup

Post by Lardo Boffin » Sun Oct 07, 2018 9:29 pm

Is it possible to start the L3 server from a single command using a config type file / setup as opposed to having to set the date / time / number of discs and stations?
I’m running from a Master so the date and time is known and I know the number of discs and stations.
I know its only a small thing but wondered if it was possible?
Atom, issue 5
BBC model B 32k issue 4, 16k sideways RAM, Watford 12 ROM board, Acorn 6502 coproc
BBC model B 32k issue 7, turboMMC, Opus Challenger 3 512k, Pi 3 coproc
USA Model B
BBC Master, Datacentre + HDD, pi co-proc, econet, NULA

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Re: New econet setup

Post by BeebMaster » Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:13 pm

Yes - you should have StartFS amongst the files on the L3 download disc, which is in BASIC and can be edited to include inserting the date and time from the Master real time clock. Then you can build a !Boot file to CHAIN"STARTFS" and it all runs automatically.
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Re: New econet setup

Post by Lardo Boffin » Mon Oct 08, 2018 6:22 am

BeebMaster wrote:
Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:13 pm
Yes - you should have StartFS amongst the files on the L3 download disc, which is in BASIC and can be edited to include inserting the date and time from the Master real time clock. Then you can build a !Boot file to CHAIN"STARTFS" and it all runs automatically.
Thanks.

Edit - just tried it. Works a treat.
Last edited by Lardo Boffin on Wed Oct 10, 2018 4:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Atom, issue 5
BBC model B 32k issue 4, 16k sideways RAM, Watford 12 ROM board, Acorn 6502 coproc
BBC model B 32k issue 7, turboMMC, Opus Challenger 3 512k, Pi 3 coproc
USA Model B
BBC Master, Datacentre + HDD, pi co-proc, econet, NULA

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Lardo Boffin
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Re: New econet setup

Post by Lardo Boffin » Sun Jun 09, 2019 12:40 pm

I am finally trying to install econet in my issue 4 model B and have a question.

It says in point 10 that the caps are polarised:-

C95EAECA-80D4-4AF6-BCF9-B87E20340558.jpeg

But my beeb doesn’t have polarity markings for 23 and I am not sure which way round 18 goes. Its not obvious (to me - an electronics noob) which side of cap 18 is positive.

70287C7C-AA1B-468F-883D-DB439BBB11AE.jpeg

Any advice appreciated thanks!

Lardo
Atom, issue 5
BBC model B 32k issue 4, 16k sideways RAM, Watford 12 ROM board, Acorn 6502 coproc
BBC model B 32k issue 7, turboMMC, Opus Challenger 3 512k, Pi 3 coproc
USA Model B
BBC Master, Datacentre + HDD, pi co-proc, econet, NULA

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Re: New econet setup

Post by danielj » Sun Jun 09, 2019 12:42 pm

The 10nF isn't polarised. It's just a ceramic.

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Re: New econet setup

Post by IanS » Sun Jun 09, 2019 12:48 pm

As Daniel says the 10nF isn't polarised.

The other is marked.
caps.PNG
So the way you have it in the photo is correct.

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Re: New econet setup

Post by Lardo Boffin » Sun Jun 09, 2019 12:51 pm

Thanks. I saw the little plus sign but was not sure which side it referred to.
Atom, issue 5
BBC model B 32k issue 4, 16k sideways RAM, Watford 12 ROM board, Acorn 6502 coproc
BBC model B 32k issue 7, turboMMC, Opus Challenger 3 512k, Pi 3 coproc
USA Model B
BBC Master, Datacentre + HDD, pi co-proc, econet, NULA

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Re: New econet setup

Post by daveejhitchins » Sun Jun 09, 2019 4:29 pm

Lardo Boffin wrote:
Sun Jun 09, 2019 12:51 pm
Thanks. I saw the little plus sign but was not sure which side it referred to.
Always (?) the longer leg . . .

Dave H :D
Parts: UM6502CE, GAL22V10D, GAL16V8D, AS6C62256A, TC514400AZ, WD1772, R6522, TMS27C512, AT28C256
Products: ARA II, ARA III, ABR, ATI, AP6, MGC, AP5 . . .
For a price list, contact me at: Retro Hardware AT dave ej hitchins DOT plus DOT com

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Re: New econet setup

Post by Lardo Boffin » Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:12 pm

Everything installed. Slightly traumatic as I have never really gone anywhere a beeb with a soldering iron before.

32C8C9B4-97C2-42AE-8F98-C5C173223D43.jpeg

And up and running!

2094F48D-BF4C-45CC-96E7-803938123D05.jpeg

I just need to decide on a station number (just bunged a couple of jumpers on) and find the screws to fix the motherboard back in place... :oops: :roll:


And then do the same for another beeb! Then I will have three model Bs connecting to a Master! I still have another model B which I will doubtless get a kit for, for completeness sake.

Now, does anyone do a kit for the Atom? :D
Atom, issue 5
BBC model B 32k issue 4, 16k sideways RAM, Watford 12 ROM board, Acorn 6502 coproc
BBC model B 32k issue 7, turboMMC, Opus Challenger 3 512k, Pi 3 coproc
USA Model B
BBC Master, Datacentre + HDD, pi co-proc, econet, NULA

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Re: New econet setup

Post by AndyF » Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:15 pm

Well done. =D>

Got to say I've only ever done two of these and I thought it was not that easy to do (generally speaking) although to be fair I suppose more fiddly and avoiding mixing components up rather than anything else though I guess. One was a tape only machine, the other had a 1770 in it, and yes both did work after! Although iirc the disc one needed a bit of a rework due to a couple of my errors. Ahem.

If you can do the Econet Upgrade and it worked and you did not melt or lift any tracks*** (this can be quite distressing) then you're soldering skills are likely well up to any other upgrades! :D At least there's no SM components in these machines, not a great fan of soldering those, bit too small for my liking.


*** This can unfortunately happen due to age rather than ham fisted excess heat although to be fair it does seem a lot more prevalent on some other machines rather than the Acorn range...
Last edited by AndyF on Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:19 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: New econet setup

Post by Lardo Boffin » Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:34 pm

I have had a lot of practice refurbing various Sinclairs over the last few years.
I learned a lot about organisation, checking and double checking which components go where doing the sound fix on Spectrum +3s. Especially when I broke one and couldn’t fix it...
Atom, issue 5
BBC model B 32k issue 4, 16k sideways RAM, Watford 12 ROM board, Acorn 6502 coproc
BBC model B 32k issue 7, turboMMC, Opus Challenger 3 512k, Pi 3 coproc
USA Model B
BBC Master, Datacentre + HDD, pi co-proc, econet, NULA

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Re: New econet setup

Post by AndyF » Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:29 am

Lardo Boffin wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:34 pm
I have had a lot of practice refurbing various Sinclairs over the last few years.
I learned a lot about organisation, checking and double checking which components go where doing the sound fix on Spectrum +3s. Especially when I broke one and couldn’t fix it...
To be honest that's partly what I sort of referred to (but not directly) can't remember which one it was but I *think* some of the +2A/B (black ones) the track quality was a bit iffy on some builds, not a problem really unless you needed to do something to it (stereo mod, attempted jstick 'rewire correctly' or suchlike) oh well. :D
Last edited by AndyF on Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New econet setup

Post by Lardo Boffin » Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:47 am

AndyF wrote:
Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:29 am
Lardo Boffin wrote:
Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:34 pm
I have had a lot of practice refurbing various Sinclairs over the last few years.
I learned a lot about organisation, checking and double checking which components go where doing the sound fix on Spectrum +3s. Especially when I broke one and couldn’t fix it...
To be honest that's partly what I sort of referred to (but not directly) can't remember which one it was but I *think* some of the +2A/B (black ones) the track quality was a bit iffy on some builds, not a problem really unless you needed to do something to it (stereo mod, attempted jstick 'rewire correctly' or suchlike) oh well. :D
I have only worked on +3s but the Amstrad build Spectrums are apparently notorious for being easy to lift tracks.
Atom, issue 5
BBC model B 32k issue 4, 16k sideways RAM, Watford 12 ROM board, Acorn 6502 coproc
BBC model B 32k issue 7, turboMMC, Opus Challenger 3 512k, Pi 3 coproc
USA Model B
BBC Master, Datacentre + HDD, pi co-proc, econet, NULA

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Re: New econet setup

Post by BeebMaster » Tue Jun 18, 2019 8:08 pm

Great work! If it makes you feel any better, I've never successfully installed an Econet upgrade myself! The prototype kit back in 2003 was fitted by a friend who was an electrician and assembly line worker by trade. I did try to upgrade a Beeb to Econet about 4 years ago and it all went wrong. I try not to do any soldering now, I am totally useless at it.
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Re: New econet setup

Post by flaxcottage » Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:50 am

Well done, Mr Boffin. =D>

I remember the thrill when my first Beeb linked to my network, which up then had been purely Masters and Archimedes.

The first time I booted the Beeb it would not work, though. Nothing to do with my upgrade but rather with the turboMMFS I had installed at the time. That upgrade uses the Econet workspace as its own and as soon as it was activated it promptly disabled Econet and vice versa. A quick removal of the MMFS system and it worked.

I still have only the one BBC micro connected to my network just to test things on an Econetted BBC B if needed.
- John

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Re: New econet setup

Post by Lardo Boffin » Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:24 pm

flaxcottage wrote:
Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:50 am
Well done, Mr Boffin. =D>
:oops: 8)

Its a nice feeling to get it working.
Atom, issue 5
BBC model B 32k issue 4, 16k sideways RAM, Watford 12 ROM board, Acorn 6502 coproc
BBC model B 32k issue 7, turboMMC, Opus Challenger 3 512k, Pi 3 coproc
USA Model B
BBC Master, Datacentre + HDD, pi co-proc, econet, NULA

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Re: New econet setup

Post by Lardo Boffin » Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:13 pm

And another one! Now I have three model Bs connected. Why? Not really sure.... :oops:

7EDFCB8F-46F2-4CE4-A3A9-E04E30056C6E.jpeg

That just leaves one kit to buy and fit and that is all my beebs.
Atom, issue 5
BBC model B 32k issue 4, 16k sideways RAM, Watford 12 ROM board, Acorn 6502 coproc
BBC model B 32k issue 7, turboMMC, Opus Challenger 3 512k, Pi 3 coproc
USA Model B
BBC Master, Datacentre + HDD, pi co-proc, econet, NULA

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