New econet setup

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sweh
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Re: New econet setup

Post by sweh » Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:22 pm

FWIW, just as the default value for the file server is 254, the default value for the print server is 235.
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AndyF
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Re: New econet setup

Post by AndyF » Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:57 pm

sweh wrote:
Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:22 pm
FWIW, just as the default value for the file server is 254, the default value for the print server is 235.
Although its off topic (sorry! Won't happen again) I wished 'back then' they had included some options in the FS startup to allow some PS options to be set as needed, it seemed a real shame to waste a whole machine as a Print Server, given that if you had to do a hard break it would upset it. To my mind the FS could of handled it maybe as well ? We had to have our PS usually just sat there 'unused' , when machines were not exactly going spare either! Twas two/three persons per 'Beeb!
Last edited by AndyF on Tue Sep 18, 2018 7:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: New econet setup

Post by BeebMaster » Tue Sep 18, 2018 8:09 pm

That's what we had at school, a Level 3 file server station and a separate printer server station next to it. It had a dot-matrix printer with continuous paper in it (usually jammed or torn). There was hardly ever any printing allowed, I think I only printed one thing in total all the time I used the computer room. I have a very hazy recollection that it was a picture of a house generated in mode 2, although I don't remember how they would have had the facility to print a screen dump.

Actually a Beeb running the Acorn Printer Server ROM can operate as a normal Beeb, the printer server runs in the "background" so our printer server could have been used as a user station, but probably nobody thought of that.

There is a patch for DNFS 1.20 which generates a ROM image with custom chosen file server and printer server numbers coded into it.
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Lardo Boffin
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Re: New econet setup

Post by Lardo Boffin » Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:40 pm

I have played lego with econet cables and after a brief setback where one set of cables connected to my Master claimed there was no clock (a quick rearrangement sorted this) I got the following (once I realised I had to run notify from disc):-

42581663-CF06-4C1C-9591-45FA5628DB0E.jpeg

Along with a cable management nightmare! :D

Next up to reconfigure the Master as station 254 and try and sort the server software.

If anyone happens to have a blank image for a CF card with a working server that would be awesome!...
Atom, issue 5
BBC model B 32k issue 4, 16k sideways RAM, Watford 12 ROM board, Acorn 6502 coproc
BBC model B 32k issue 7, turboMMC, Opus Challenger 3 512k, Pi 3 coproc
USA Model B
BBC Master, Datacentre + HDD, pi co-proc, econet, NULA

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Lardo Boffin
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Re: New econet setup

Post by Lardo Boffin » Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:44 pm

So setting the Master to 254 took about 30 seconds.

That just leaves the L3 server software.
Atom, issue 5
BBC model B 32k issue 4, 16k sideways RAM, Watford 12 ROM board, Acorn 6502 coproc
BBC model B 32k issue 7, turboMMC, Opus Challenger 3 512k, Pi 3 coproc
USA Model B
BBC Master, Datacentre + HDD, pi co-proc, econet, NULA

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Re: New econet setup

Post by Lardo Boffin » Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:52 pm

Would I be right in guessing that the set of links with the yellow line around them are the station number setting links in a USA beeb?

The station number is 003 so it make sense from a binary perspective.

2DE07191-5CDA-4EC8-85FB-1096131B989D.jpeg
Atom, issue 5
BBC model B 32k issue 4, 16k sideways RAM, Watford 12 ROM board, Acorn 6502 coproc
BBC model B 32k issue 7, turboMMC, Opus Challenger 3 512k, Pi 3 coproc
USA Model B
BBC Master, Datacentre + HDD, pi co-proc, econet, NULA

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Re: New econet setup

Post by lcww1 » Wed Sep 19, 2018 10:11 pm

Nice to see another Econet coming together! =D>

You might like to try JGH’s Talk conferencing app on your Econet whilst you work on getting an L3FS instance set up - see http://mdfs.net/Apps/Networking/Talker/ - I think Talk is much more fun than *Notify!

There are a couple of old threads here that might be helpful/interesting in terms of getting L3FS running - viewtopic.php?f=3&t=14938&start=30 and viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10543

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Re: New econet setup

Post by Kazzie » Thu Sep 20, 2018 5:16 pm

Lardo Boffin wrote:
Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:52 pm
Would I be right in guessing that the set of links with the yellow line around them are the station number setting links in a USA beeb?

The station number is 003 so it make sense from a binary perspective.
A bank of eight jumpers and a resistior pack in close proximity to the 68B54? I may never have seen a US Beeb, but those are definitely going to be the station number links.
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Re: New econet setup

Post by 1024MAK » Thu Sep 20, 2018 6:13 pm

Rather, in close proximity to a 74LS244 (Octal Buffers And Line Drivers With 3-State Outputs) chip and in close proximity to a nine pin SIL (single in line) resistor pack (RP) (also known as a resistor array)....

As the resistors define the logic high level, the links (acting as switches) define the logic zero level, and the 74LS244 reads these eight logic signals and transfers the byte of data to the data bus when the CPU addresses it.

Compare to the attached image for the standard BBC B version.
3779A34C-F17C-412F-92A3-298D5D6766D5.jpeg
Econet station number for BBC B
Mark
Last edited by 1024MAK on Thu Sep 20, 2018 6:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Lardo Boffin
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Re: New econet setup

Post by Lardo Boffin » Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:11 pm

I have a file server running!

F1F5B2E3-E992-41F8-9BC6-F5ED3C7A40FC.jpeg

And here connected from my USA beeb

B0FCF320-F703-4080-B70E-D31C17D9246F.jpeg

I still have some bits to do such as copying the library folders from the set up disc to the econet partition but nearly there.


Many thanks to the Beebmaster and all others who provided advice.
Last edited by Lardo Boffin on Fri Sep 21, 2018 9:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Atom, issue 5
BBC model B 32k issue 4, 16k sideways RAM, Watford 12 ROM board, Acorn 6502 coproc
BBC model B 32k issue 7, turboMMC, Opus Challenger 3 512k, Pi 3 coproc
USA Model B
BBC Master, Datacentre + HDD, pi co-proc, econet, NULA

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Lardo Boffin
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Re: New econet setup

Post by Lardo Boffin » Sat Sep 22, 2018 6:26 am

Hmm. Copying the library files to the econet partition was not as straight forward as I had hoped.
It appears the you need to run a program from the ADFS setup disc to copy its contents to the econet when the server is running.
My problem is that I only have one ADFS machine and that is running the server! Queue refrains of ‘theres a hole in my bucket’... :shock:
Once the server is running I can no longer use it to run the program and because the library files are not on the server I cannot run any of the functions to access it directly to run the files.
Is there a simple solution I have missed? Or would it be possible to move the files to several DFS discs and run from there? I have no idea at this stage whether the copy program will recognise DFS as a source and it was too late last night to try.
I do have an ADFS ROM somewhere I think but I’m not sure about adding ROMs to my USA beeb (the only other beeb currently set up for econet) yet. I have not had chance to trace / play with all the links to see what does what. Also being a USA beeb I have no sideways RAM to run an image from.
Any suggestions appreciated!
Thanks
*I AM LARDO
Atom, issue 5
BBC model B 32k issue 4, 16k sideways RAM, Watford 12 ROM board, Acorn 6502 coproc
BBC model B 32k issue 7, turboMMC, Opus Challenger 3 512k, Pi 3 coproc
USA Model B
BBC Master, Datacentre + HDD, pi co-proc, econet, NULA

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Re: New econet setup

Post by danielj » Sat Sep 22, 2018 6:37 am

Use beebem in master mode and your cf disk image as the hard drive image for it, and the install disk image as the disk. Once you've done it write the HDD image back to the cf card.

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Re: New econet setup

Post by Lardo Boffin » Sat Sep 22, 2018 7:14 am

danielj wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 6:37 am
Use beebem in master mode and your cf disk image as the hard drive image for it, and the install disk image as the disk. Once you've done it write the HDD image back to the cf card.
Thanks. Never thought of using beebem. Doesn’t the econet server need to be running to give access to econet partition? Or is it just writeable?
Atom, issue 5
BBC model B 32k issue 4, 16k sideways RAM, Watford 12 ROM board, Acorn 6502 coproc
BBC model B 32k issue 7, turboMMC, Opus Challenger 3 512k, Pi 3 coproc
USA Model B
BBC Master, Datacentre + HDD, pi co-proc, econet, NULA

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Re: New econet setup

Post by danielj » Sat Sep 22, 2018 7:26 am

No idea as I've never run a level 3, but beebem emulates econet, plus you can emulate the copro.

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Re: New econet setup

Post by jgharston » Sat Sep 22, 2018 1:32 pm

Lardo Boffin wrote:
Sat Sep 22, 2018 6:26 am
Hmm. Copying the library files to the econet partition was not as straight forward as I had hoped.
It appears the you need to run a program from the ADFS setup disc to copy its contents to the econet when the server is running.
You could Zip up the library, copy it to a DFS disk along with an UnZipper, then on the network client, unzip the library from DFS to the server.
Or, eg:
Archive BBC Archiver/UnArchiver
NetLib.zip BBC network library
Copy both to DFS disk.
Log onto server
Copy both from DFS disk to server library
CHAIN "Archiver"
(D)earchive file, select NetLib file
Last edited by jgharston on Sat Sep 22, 2018 1:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Lardo Boffin
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Re: New econet setup

Post by Lardo Boffin » Sat Sep 22, 2018 6:46 pm

Thanks JGH. I will give this a go tomorrow.
Atom, issue 5
BBC model B 32k issue 4, 16k sideways RAM, Watford 12 ROM board, Acorn 6502 coproc
BBC model B 32k issue 7, turboMMC, Opus Challenger 3 512k, Pi 3 coproc
USA Model B
BBC Master, Datacentre + HDD, pi co-proc, econet, NULA

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Re: New econet setup

Post by BeebMaster » Sun Sep 23, 2018 2:25 pm

If you copied all the files/directories in the ADFS part of my "L3FS2010" disc image to the CF drive you are using, then you could use Copyfiles or Treecopy in $.Utils to copy the contents of $.Utils, $.Library and $.Library1 to a DFS disc using the Master 128 (in several stages as there are more than 31 files) and then copy these files back to the file server from the US BBC B station using the DFS disc again with Copyfiles or Treecopy.
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Re: New econet setup

Post by Lardo Boffin » Mon Sep 24, 2018 10:07 pm

BeebMaster wrote:
Sun Sep 23, 2018 2:25 pm
If you copied all the files/directories in the ADFS part of my "L3FS2010" disc image to the CF drive you are using, then you could use Copyfiles or Treecopy in $.Utils to copy the contents of $.Utils, $.Library and $.Library1 to a DFS disc using the Master 128 (in several stages as there are more than 31 files) and then copy these files back to the file server from the US BBC B station using the DFS disc again with Copyfiles or Treecopy.
I tried this but must be going wrong somewhere! I get the following message:-

60CEBF7E-733E-46F6-8FE5-8A60FA52663F.jpeg

I have some of the files from the Library on the DFS disc.
I have done *I AM SYST on the model B.
I have create the folder $.Library in the root of the server.
I have tried server numbers 0 and 1.
I have tried various syntax.
I have tried doing it from the start point of both *DISC and *NET.
The server name is correct.

Not really sure where else to go!

Thanks.

*I WILL BE LARDO...
Atom, issue 5
BBC model B 32k issue 4, 16k sideways RAM, Watford 12 ROM board, Acorn 6502 coproc
BBC model B 32k issue 7, turboMMC, Opus Challenger 3 512k, Pi 3 coproc
USA Model B
BBC Master, Datacentre + HDD, pi co-proc, econet, NULA

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Re: New econet setup

Post by johnkenyon » Tue Sep 25, 2018 1:59 am

You entered 0 for the file server - you should have entered 254.

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Lardo Boffin
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Re: New econet setup

Post by Lardo Boffin » Tue Sep 25, 2018 6:17 am

:oops:
Suddenly it is so obvious. I was thinking ADFS disc number not station number.
Last edited by Lardo Boffin on Tue Sep 25, 2018 6:46 am, edited 1 time in total.
Atom, issue 5
BBC model B 32k issue 4, 16k sideways RAM, Watford 12 ROM board, Acorn 6502 coproc
BBC model B 32k issue 7, turboMMC, Opus Challenger 3 512k, Pi 3 coproc
USA Model B
BBC Master, Datacentre + HDD, pi co-proc, econet, NULA

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Lardo Boffin
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Re: New econet setup

Post by Lardo Boffin » Tue Sep 25, 2018 7:20 am

Hmm. That didn’t work either.

CF22A758-3FDE-4480-98D8-F1645FFEDEAC.jpeg

Does anyone have a complete list of commands needed to run this properly?

Many thanks.
Atom, issue 5
BBC model B 32k issue 4, 16k sideways RAM, Watford 12 ROM board, Acorn 6502 coproc
BBC model B 32k issue 7, turboMMC, Opus Challenger 3 512k, Pi 3 coproc
USA Model B
BBC Master, Datacentre + HDD, pi co-proc, econet, NULA

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Re: New econet setup

Post by flaxcottage » Tue Sep 25, 2018 7:29 am

Is Kinston4GB the name of your network partition or of the CF card itself?

In my setup the network partition has a separate name. My Level 3 NFS disk is called ECONET. The card has a different name. Try the name of your Econet disk, it should work then.
Last edited by flaxcottage on Tue Sep 25, 2018 7:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Lardo Boffin
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Re: New econet setup

Post by Lardo Boffin » Tue Sep 25, 2018 7:33 am

flaxcottage wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 7:29 am
Is Kinston4GB the name of your network partition or of the CF card itself?

In my setup the network partition has a separate name. My Level 3 NFS disk is called ECONET. The card has a different name. Try the name of your Econet disk, it should work then.
Thanks. I was following beeb masters cf card web site example and set it as KINGSTON4GB1 (I think). Is there any way to check what it is called?
Atom, issue 5
BBC model B 32k issue 4, 16k sideways RAM, Watford 12 ROM board, Acorn 6502 coproc
BBC model B 32k issue 7, turboMMC, Opus Challenger 3 512k, Pi 3 coproc
USA Model B
BBC Master, Datacentre + HDD, pi co-proc, econet, NULA

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Re: New econet setup

Post by dv8 » Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:02 am

Shouldn't the filing systems be 'DISC' and 'NET' without the leading colon?

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Re: New econet setup

Post by danielj » Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:04 am

I was wondering that...

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Lardo Boffin
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Re: New econet setup

Post by Lardo Boffin » Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:21 am

The copy program does that. It asks for the filing system and I just pressed either D or N as appropriate.
Atom, issue 5
BBC model B 32k issue 4, 16k sideways RAM, Watford 12 ROM board, Acorn 6502 coproc
BBC model B 32k issue 7, turboMMC, Opus Challenger 3 512k, Pi 3 coproc
USA Model B
BBC Master, Datacentre + HDD, pi co-proc, econet, NULA

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Re: New econet setup

Post by flaxcottage » Tue Sep 25, 2018 8:30 am

Lardo Boffin wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 7:33 am
flaxcottage wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 7:29 am
Is Kinston4GB the name of your network partition or of the CF card itself?

In my setup the network partition has a separate name. My Level 3 NFS disk is called ECONET. The card has a different name. Try the name of your Econet disk, it should work then.
Thanks. I was following beeb masters cf card web site example and set it as KINGSTON4GB1 (I think). Is there any way to check what it is called?
Log on to the server and do *.

The Econet disc name appears in the lop left corner
- John

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Re: New econet setup

Post by johnkenyon » Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:33 am

The "Bad command" is because you don't have the "FS" command in the library directory on the file server.
If you were using a Master 128 as a client, you wouldn't see this, because FS is built in to ANFS.

The simple fix for all this is to hit return when prompted for the file server number. This has the effect of not issuing the FS command, and using the currently selected file server. (If you only have one FS, specifying a file server is a waste of time)
Then hit return when prompted for the file server disc name. This will skip issuing an SDISC command (Again, if you only have one disc, specifying one is a waste of time)

The next two problems you will encounter will be
(1) "Insufficient Space" errors when there's plenty left on the disc (use *SETFREE <username> <freespace in hex> to allocate more disc space).
(2) issues with access rights if you login as an unprivileged user and specify a destination directory starting with a $.HOMEDIR
Hint:
I have a user called GAMES with a home directory $.GAMES
If I do the following
*I AM GAMES
*.
Top line says
Games (003) Owner
If I do
*.$.GAMES
the top line says
Games (003) Public

So if you login as GAMES and want to copy your Arcadians disc to $.GAMES.Arcadians, login to the file server, check you re in your home directory, run CopyFiles and then specify your destination directory as "Arcadians" not "$.Arcadians"...

/John

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Lardo Boffin
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Re: New econet setup

Post by Lardo Boffin » Tue Sep 25, 2018 9:46 am

Thanks John.

Where do I need to copy the library files to? Just to make sure they are accessible to all.

Is it a case of doing *I AM SYST and then copying there (well, a library folder anyway)? When I do *. from that log in I can see the passwords folder and the various user folders that were created.
Atom, issue 5
BBC model B 32k issue 4, 16k sideways RAM, Watford 12 ROM board, Acorn 6502 coproc
BBC model B 32k issue 7, turboMMC, Opus Challenger 3 512k, Pi 3 coproc
USA Model B
BBC Master, Datacentre + HDD, pi co-proc, econet, NULA

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Re: New econet setup

Post by johnkenyon » Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:31 am

The BBC B library should go to $.LIBRARY
The Master library files should go in $.LIBRARY1
If you're copying from an ADFS utilities/fs disc, it's a one for one copy - $.LIBRARY to $.LIBRARY

Note that you will have to change the access rights on these files - by default they will probably be WR/, hence inaccessible to anyone other than privileged users.
The correct rights should be LR/R (Back in the day you would stop the kiddies from accessing *VIEW and *REMOTE by setting the file attribute to LR/ )

IIRC, you then need to copy FindLib from $.LIBRARY1 to $.LIBRARY so that when you enable *OPT5,1 on a master 128/ET it can find the alternate library.

/John

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