PAL, MCU, EPROM, Flash programmer recommendations please?

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CJE-4D
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PAL, MCU, EPROM, Flash programmer recommendations please?

Post by CJE-4D » Wed Jul 25, 2018 9:38 am

For some Acorn & RISC OS projects I'm looking for a programmer, recommendations please?

I'd like to get one that will do:
22v10 PLD 24 pin DIP
SST39SF020 Flash RAM 32 pin PDIP
ATTINY45 8 Pin Microcontroller
2764/27128 etc EPROMs

I've found:https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TL866A-Unive ... SwR29ZJqRi
Which seems to do all the above.

I've also been recommended a Wellon VP-299 https://www.kanda.com/products/Wellon/VP-299.html but it is rather more expensive.

You may be able to deduce the products were looking to produce from the above!

Thoughts please.
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geraldholdsworth
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Re: PAL, MCU, EPROM, Flash programmer recommendations please?

Post by geraldholdsworth » Wed Jul 25, 2018 10:19 am

The TL-866 is what most folk on here have, and recommend, including myself. Although you'll need to get some adapters for packages other than DIL.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Universal-Mi ... 0005.m1851
Last edited by geraldholdsworth on Wed Jul 25, 2018 10:21 am, edited 2 times in total.
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KenLowe
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Re: PAL, MCU, EPROM, Flash programmer recommendations please?

Post by KenLowe » Wed Jul 25, 2018 10:49 am

If I recall, I don't think I could get the TL866 to program the 22V10, even though it's listed as supported. Fine with the 20V8, but not the 22V10.

I have both the TL866 and Genius G540 and had to use the Genius to program my 22V10s.

That said the Genius doesn't do some flash ICs that the TL866 can do. On balance the TL866 is probably the better option. Unlike the Genius, the TL866 software is still being updated.

Edit: To be clear, neither will program PALs, and only support Lattice GALs, even though both claim to support ATMEL GALs.
Last edited by KenLowe on Wed Jul 25, 2018 10:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: PAL, MCU, EPROM, Flash programmer recommendations please?

Post by CJE-4D » Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:59 pm

Thanks for the replies. I've found the TL866 with a set of adaptors available from the UK for only £2 more than the Chinese listing Gerald found.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TL866II-Plus ... SwirFbA~Uk

Ken mentions that "neither will program PALs, and only support Lattice GALs, even though both claim to support ATMEL GALs."
Programming an ATF22V10C-15PU or equivalent as used in IanS's IDE interface is essential to us, can anyone confirm if they've managed to use a TL866 to do them. Ken wrote he couldn't. If not any other programmer recommendation that will program one please, other than the Genius G540 that Ken used?

Doing some research I found:
ATMEL in the datasheet call the ATF22V10C-15PU a PLD and mention PAL & GAL mode.
Lattice GALs were apparently discontinued in 2011 and wikipedia says ATF22V10C-15PU is pin compatible.
So I'm rather confused about PLDs, PALs & GALs in particular their programming. Google only finds a few obsolete PAL programmers.

Do any Acorn/RISC OS project require PAL programming? If so how do people do it.
Last edited by CJE-4D on Wed Jul 25, 2018 2:00 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: PAL, MCU, EPROM, Flash programmer recommendations please?

Post by Andy1979 » Wed Jul 25, 2018 3:47 pm

CJE-4D wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:59 pm
Thanks for the replies. I've found the TL866 with a set of adaptors available from the UK for only £2 more than the Chinese listing Gerald found.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TL866II-Plus ... SwirFbA~Uk
Be careful. That link is for a TL866II Plus, which is the second (latest) edition of the TL866. While it has some new features, the maximum programming voltage has been reduced to (I think) 18V, and it can no longer program 21V EPROMS.

I recently acquired a TL866A from China (same as TL866CS but with an ICSP socket). So far I've only used it with 27C128 and 27C256 EPROMS, but it works great under Windows 10 64-bit. The software can be confusingly worded but there are lots of guides online to help explain what the options do.

Regarding the higher programming voltages, I've read elsewhere that people needed to set them manually, and use a USB port (or hub) with a decent power supply. That may be why others have had problems.

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KenLowe
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Re: PAL, MCU, EPROM, Flash programmer recommendations please?

Post by KenLowe » Wed Jul 25, 2018 5:52 pm

CJE-4D wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:59 pm
Ken mentions that "neither will program PALs, and only support Lattice GALs, even though both claim to support ATMEL GALs."
Programming an ATF22V10C-15PU or equivalent as used in IanS's IDE interface is essential to us, can anyone confirm if they've managed to use a TL866 to do them. Ken wrote he couldn't. If not any other programmer recommendation that will program one please, other than the Genius G540 that Ken used?
To be clear, i couldn't get either the TL866 or the Genius to program the ATMEL ATF22V10C. Period. The TL866 and Genius would both program the Lattice 20V8. Only the Genius would program the Lattice 22V10.
CJE-4D wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 1:59 pm
Doing some research I found:
ATMEL in the datasheet call the ATF22V10C-15PU a PLD and mention PAL & GAL mode.
Lattice GALs were apparently discontinued in 2011 and wikipedia says ATF22V10C-15PU is pin compatible.
So I'm rather confused about PLDs, PALs & GALs in particular their programming. Google only finds a few obsolete PAL programmers.
Although discontinued, Lattice GALs are still readily available from China via a popular online auction site. Most that I've received look brand new, but some do look like they've been pulled. I've also had a few that didn't work - perhaps 95% of what I've been sent are working.

As far as I'm aware, the GALs are effectively backwards compatible with the PALs. I've certainly used a few Lattice GALs (both 20V8 and 22V10) as replacement for older PALs. However, I've only ever needed to replicate simple combinational logic. Nothing more complicated. That said, I don't see any reason that more complex PAL registered logic couldn't be implemented on the GAL, but I've not tried myself yet.
Last edited by KenLowe on Wed Jul 25, 2018 5:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

cmorley
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Re: PAL, MCU, EPROM, Flash programmer recommendations please?

Post by cmorley » Wed Jul 25, 2018 7:03 pm

I have a TL866 and it won't program genuine Atmel 22V10C or CQZ. It will do some but not others - I think it does remarked ones which are actually not what the package states... 22V10B maybe labelled as 22V10C or somesuch.

I bought a Wellon VP598. It is a lot more money but programs PLDs no problem (except for some dodgy remarked Atmel chips the 866 will do!).

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KenLowe
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Re: PAL, MCU, EPROM, Flash programmer recommendations please?

Post by KenLowe » Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:33 pm

CJE-4D wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 9:38 am
I've also been recommended a Wellon VP-299 https://www.kanda.com/products/Wellon/VP-299.html but it is rather more expensive.
cmorley wrote:
Wed Jul 25, 2018 7:03 pm
I bought a Wellon VP598. It is a lot more money but programs PLDs no problem (except for some dodgy remarked Atmel chips the 866 will do!).
Interesting quote from their website relating to the VP-299 and PLDs:
Product: Wellon VP-299 Universal Programmer
VP-299 and 22V10 Devices
The VP-299 struggles with some 22V10 PLDs, especially Lattice but sometimes some Atmel devices as well. 16V8 will occasionally give the same problem. The software will give an Over-current error. This is due to the high programming current required by these chips.

To increase the programming current, two SMD resistors need to be changed. This will not damage the programmer as the standard resistors fitted are very conservative.

Resistor Change
To open the case, remove the feet as screws are under them.

Resistor R17 (220R) needs to be changed to 270R
Resistor R28 (39R) needs to be changed to 51R
Resistors need to be 0805 size, typically 1% tolerance and 1/8W power.
Last edited by KenLowe on Wed Jul 25, 2018 8:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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