Monitors

for bbc micro/electron hardware, peripherals & programming issues (NOT emulators!)
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richmond62
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Monitors

Post by richmond62 » Fri Jun 01, 2018 6:16 pm

Having wandered over to my local TV shop (here in Bulgaria) and feeling that
£75 times 2 for 2 tellies to use as monitors with a couple of BBC Micros I'm going to
be using for teaching (!) in the summer I thought that these seemed rather good:
RCA to VGA.png

having them delivered to Mum and Dad in Britain, and my younger son
(currently on a world tour swanking about his fancy degree from an Ivy-League University in the USA)
can stuff it in his sporran when he comes over here.
Grad2.jpg
Especially when second-hand 1024x768 flat-screen monitors are going for £10 round these parts!

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Re: Monitors

Post by pcbbc » Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:39 pm

Remember link S39 needs making, and possibly the addition of a capacitor (although some board revisions have it included already), if you want colour output from the composite out.
8BS Link

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richmond62
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Re: Monitors

Post by richmond62 » Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:51 pm

That explains a lot.

With My BBC Micro I'm now using one of those Retro Club RGB to SCART cables, but my Master Compact wouldn't
behave with that, and last year I was using a "simple" RCA yellow cable from that connecotr into an RCA to SCART converter,
and about halfway through the summer the colur "went".

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flibble
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Re: Monitors

Post by flibble » Thu Jun 07, 2018 5:39 pm

How does a composite + 2 audio (going on the colours of the connectors) possibly work going into a VGA connector? At best these three phono plugs could be for R, G and B with sync on green?

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jms2
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Re: Monitors

Post by jms2 » Fri Jun 08, 2018 2:24 pm

The Amazon listing says this:

Connectors: 1 x VGA 15-pin male on one end - 1 x S-Video mini-DIN 4-pin connector and 3 x RCA composite connector on other end.
• This VGA to S-Video + 3 RCA Adapter connections your PC / Laptop to LCD projector, HDTV, or any other display devices. Note: This adapter will not convert S-Video or Composite Video signal to VGA signal.
• It will work with laptops and desktops with VGA cards that has TV-Out function capability through the VGA connector. Please, check your PC & Video Card manual or manufacturer to make sure that your VGA card has TV-Out function capability through the VGA connector to ensure this cable will work for you!

... so this is for taking a (special) signal from a PC and sending it to a TV. I think that's the opposite of what Richmond62 wanted, sadly.

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richmond62
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Re: Monitors

Post by richmond62 » Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:32 am

what Richmond62 wanted
Well, we'll wait and see, because Andro is currently on his lap of honour:
currently on the bus between Wincanton, Somerset (Granny and Granddad)
and London Hammersmith to take the Victoria to Whitstable train (Aunty),
followed in a few days by Gatwich - Munich (older brother), and, finally,
Munich - Sofia (at which point I shall collect him in the car). And it is he who
is the "carrier of the sacred RCA to VGA connectors".

[And why, pray tell, is this man revealing all this information over the internet for all and sundry to see?
For the plain and simple reason that it is probably all over the internet anyway as most people know that I've got to
change my underpants before I do.]

Anyway, as you are about to find out . . .

#1 I'm a pain in the bum.

#2 I love messing around with cables.

#3 I love proving people wrong (this is closely connected with #1).
Last edited by richmond62 on Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:46 am, edited 1 time in total.

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richmond62
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Re: Monitors

Post by richmond62 » Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:35 am

Connector1.png
This is a marvellous connector-converter I found attached to the back of a
completely smashed computer sticking out the top of a dustbin about 16 years ago in St. Andrews, in Scotland.

[Was chatting with a friend of mine (well, err, actually, the bloke I've been putting the squeeze on for the last 2 years to get him to let me have one of his 2 Pravetz computers) and he said he had about 10 of those connectors "somewhere" in his Aladdin's cave: I told him I'd give him 25p a pop, and he promised to dig them out.]

It is "just the ticket" for the TV-out of my BBC Micro:
P_20180609_112125_HDR.jpg
-
My grandfather told me, many years ago, "Be a picker-upper of inconsidered trifles."
Last edited by richmond62 on Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:49 am, edited 2 times in total.

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richmond62
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Re: Monitors

Post by richmond62 » Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:37 am

It really "cuts the mustard":
-
P_20180609_111929_HDR.jpg
sadly
and, before anyone gets "all hot and sweaty" about RGB - SCART connectors,
I picked this thing up in my local supermarket:
-
P_20180609_122345_HDR.jpg
-
And did a "Yellow to Yellow" job.

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richmond62
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Re: Monitors

Post by richmond62 » Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:41 am

While the Retro Clinic's RGB DIN to SCART works with the BBC Micro I could not get it to work with
my BBC Master Compact.
-
P_20180609_121339_HDR.jpg
-
Am also slightly *&^%$# with them as I bought 2 from them, and one of them had a wonky SCART connector so didn't work.
Last edited by richmond62 on Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Monitors

Post by richmond62 » Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:44 am

This, while possible, was a "right pox" as it involved waiting 15 minutes
while the telly found the ATV channel (35) that the signal was coming
through (while with the SCART the result was instantaneous):
-
P_20180609_114957_HDR.jpg
-
That is from the TV-out with my converter from the dustbin, as the UHF output just didn't give me anything.

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richmond62
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Re: Monitors

Post by richmond62 » Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:45 am

This was a busted-flush:
-
P_20180609_114944_HDR.jpg

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richmond62
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Re: Monitors

Post by richmond62 » Sat Jun 09, 2018 11:13 am

Here's the BBC Micro "doing its stuff" via the TV-out converter and the RCA - SCART with a bog-basic flatscreen TV (75 quid).

My BBC Master Compact is having a holiday on the right.
-
P_20180609_121551_HDR.jpg

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tricky
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Re: Monitors

Post by tricky » Sat Jun 09, 2018 1:29 pm

At first glance, that TV looked like it had a massive grey bezel!
In the 80s, video copying kits were popular over here, usually a 5 pin din to 5 pin din lead plus 5pin din to RCA plus a small pile of RCA to stuff, including the composite connector on the beeb. I probably have 20+ of thos somewhere in the garage that haven't seen the light of day since the 80s!
Glad you got it working.
There does seem to be some discrepancy as to what value resistors should be used in an RGB to SCART and it seems that not all modern TVs are happy whatever you do. Luckily there is still a supply of cheap old portable CRTs (with RGB SCART sockets) over here, but who knows how long for!

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Elminster
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Re: Monitors

Post by Elminster » Sat Jun 09, 2018 1:43 pm

richmond62 wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:41 am
While the Retro Clinic's RGB DIN to SCART works with the BBC Micro I could not get it to work with
my BBC Master Compact.
-
P_20180609_121339_HDR.jpg
-
Am also slightly *&^%$# with them as I bought 2 from them, and one of them had a wonky SCART connector so didn't work.
Did you ask Mark.H to swap? He is usually pretty good, he isn’t on here often but hangs around Facebook group a lot.

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richmond62
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Re: Monitors

Post by richmond62 » Sat Jun 09, 2018 1:47 pm

a massive grey bezel
Good one!

Just a portable blackboard I bunged in behind the setup for the photos
so that the coathooks and other nonsense on the wall didn't interfere with things. :D

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BigEd
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Re: Monitors

Post by BigEd » Sat Jun 09, 2018 3:13 pm

richmond62 wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 10:44 am
This, while possible, was a "right pox" as it involved waiting 15 minutes
while the telly found the ATV channel (35) that the signal was coming
through (while with the SCART the result was instantaneous):
-
P_20180609_114957_HDR.jpg
-
That is from the TV-out with my converter from the dustbin, as the UHF output just didn't give me anything.
Not wanting to be a super-pedant here, but your terminology is confusing me a bit. The leftmost connection on a Beeb, a phono, is labelled UHF out, and could also be called RF out or TV out. It goes into an aerial connector on a TV. The next one, the BNC connector, is labelled video out and could also be called composite out. It goes into a composite input (yellow phono) or SCART. (Personally I wouldn't call this TV out.)

If your TV spent time tuning in to a channel, that must surely have been the UHF output you had connected at the time?

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richmond62
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Re: Monitors

Post by richmond62 » Sat Jun 09, 2018 3:32 pm

If your TV spent time tuning in to a channel, that must surely have been the UHF output you had connected at the time?
The leftmost connexion on my BBC Micro, labelled "UHF" doesn't seem to be much good.

The telly tuning was from the next connexion to the right (labelled "Video Out"):
-
connexion.png
-
with the connector that allowed me to connect the sort of cable I would have expected to work with the leftmost one.

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BigEd
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Re: Monitors

Post by BigEd » Sat Jun 09, 2018 3:36 pm

That's a very unexpected result indeed! (Unless somehow I've lost the plot... or does the machine have internal modifications???)

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richmond62
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Re: Monitors

Post by richmond62 » Sat Jun 09, 2018 3:37 pm

does the machine have internal modifications?
Not as far as I know.

As far as I can tell that machine is a "plain vanilla" model I bought from eBay last Summer.

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Re: Monitors

Post by duikkie » Sat Jun 09, 2018 3:58 pm

oke in simple englisch please :)

what is the problem ?

if you turn on your bbc , connecting uhf out to tv arial in you get picture ?
if you turn on your bbc , connecting video out to tv video in with yellow cable and convertor to scart tv in no picture ?

if you turn your master on , no picture on tv ?

qeustions ;)

do you have a multi meter ?
do you have a scoop ( every one must have this , if they want to solve tv signals :) , so must to see if you hang a scoop on tv signals :)

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richmond62
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Re: Monitors

Post by richmond62 » Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:07 pm

oke in simple englisch
Possibly: but your message isn't simple to understand, I'm afraid.

И, по принсип, нямам търпение с хора кой има проблеми с разни езици.
what is the problem ?

if you turn on your bbc , connecting uhf out to tv arial in you get picture ?
if you turn on your bbc , connecting video out to tv video in with yellow cable and convertor to scart tv in no picture ?

Exactly the opposite.

From the port labelled "UHF out" I get NO picture. #1

From the port labelled "video out" with a yellow cable to a SCART connector I get a picture. #2
-
ports.png

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1024MAK
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Re: Monitors

Post by 1024MAK » Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:39 pm

If you're getting a picture from the video out socket, I would not worry about the UHF/TV out. The quality of the resulting image on a display is poor at the best of times (out of the available video outputs, the UHF is the worst for quality).

Mark

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Re: Monitors

Post by duikkie » Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:57 pm

your modulator from your bbc can be broken , or your sync is gone :), i have to look at the schematic #-o

if you want to solve it you must open your bbc and know what you are doing :shock:

do you have a multimeter , i shall not ask about the scoop anymore [-X , with scoop you can find your sync , ht , vt burst :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Monitors

Post by duikkie » Sat Jun 09, 2018 5:10 pm

quick look at schematic. i have no time left tonight but

check s39 ? someone can quick look what that is ?

Csync not good at modulator

Burst gate not good at modulator

modulator broken

you can simple test this , but if no englishman can tell you

the dutchman can tommorrow =D>

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1024MAK
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Re: Monitors

Post by 1024MAK » Sat Jun 09, 2018 5:36 pm

Well, the first thing to check is the +5V supply to the modulator :wink:

It has been known for the +5V supply to be disconnected if the user had no intention of using this output.

Mark

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richmond62
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Re: Monitors

Post by richmond62 » Sat Jun 09, 2018 9:12 pm

Well, the first thing to check is the +5V supply to the modulator
Ach, Ah widnae fash masel anent that: Ahve an oot signal via the ither gate, and that'll suffice, forbye.

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Richard Russell
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Re: Monitors

Post by Richard Russell » Sat Jun 09, 2018 9:14 pm

1024MAK wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:39 pm
If you're getting a picture from the video out socket, I would not worry about the UHF/TV out. The quality of the resulting image on a display is poor at the best of times (out of the available video outputs, the UHF is the worst for quality).
Indeed, but bear in mind that by default the baseband (BNC) video output is monochrome only; to enable PAL colour you need to join LK39.

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Re: Monitors

Post by 1024MAK » Sun Jun 10, 2018 7:04 am

Richard Russell wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 9:14 pm
1024MAK wrote:
Sat Jun 09, 2018 4:39 pm
If you're getting a picture from the video out socket, I would not worry about the UHF/TV out. The quality of the resulting image on a display is poor at the best of times (out of the available video outputs, the UHF is the worst for quality).
Indeed, but bear in mind that by default the baseband (BNC) video output is monochrome only; to enable PAL colour you need to join LK39.
Yep, mentioned in the second post.

Mark

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richmond62
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Re: Monitors

Post by richmond62 » Sun Jun 10, 2018 8:27 am

Knee-deep in some Bulgarian - English translation,
but this afternoon I'll stroll across to the school
and see whether I'm getting a colour signal with my "non-standard" rig.

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Re: Monitors

Post by richmond62 » Sun Jun 10, 2018 2:16 pm

Well, here I am back from my stroll, and a bit like a really corny 1970s musical:
I'm wrong in some ways and right in others.

So, just linking my tablet up with my 2006 iMac . . .

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