BeebSCSI 7_7

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cmorley
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Re: BeebSCSI 7_7

Post by cmorley » Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:27 pm

danielj wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 8:13 pm
Don't use superglue. Top tip.
Kragle is superior :)

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1024MAK
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Re: BeebSCSI 7_7

Post by 1024MAK » Mon Jul 16, 2018 6:59 am

cmorley wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:26 pm
1024MAK wrote:
Sun Jul 15, 2018 7:04 pm
Just to add to the confusion, the normal description in the U.K., is that for the normal dual pin IDC connectors, the PCB mounting part is the male plug. The connector that fits the male plugs, that attach to ribbon cable are line sockets.
I am not sure that is right...
Isn't a PCB box header a receptacle with pins and the cable end a plug with sockets?

Pins and sockets describe the individual connection's terminals. Plugs and receptacles describe the connector as a whole. You can have plugs with pins or sockets and receptacles with sockets or pins... all the combinations.
So what do you call the PCB mounting part when you just have the pins and no surrounding plastic? It makes no sense to say I plugged the plug into the pin header...

The definition is normally based on the electrical contacts, not the plastic/insulated/metal case.

Mark

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Elminster
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Re: BeebSCSI 7_7

Post by Elminster » Mon Jul 16, 2018 9:07 am

And it is these reasons I have a large box of bits where I have order the wrong angle, gender, pitch etc etc.

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Elminster
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Re: BeebSCSI 7_7

Post by Elminster » Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:15 am

Nearly finished putting together parts order list for v7.7. 2 questions, all to do with holes.

What do I need to order for:

Fiducials:Fiducial_0.5mm_Dia_1mm_Outer

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simoni
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Re: BeebSCSI 7_7

Post by simoni » Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:38 am

Fiducials are alignment markers used for board production when using pick and place machines - it is not a 'component' that needs to be purchased; it's an optical marker on the PCB surface.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiducial_ ... uit_boards

The board contains 3 such markers (F1, F2 and F3) and actual 4 mounting holes (MK1-MK4).

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1024MAK
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Re: BeebSCSI 7_7

Post by 1024MAK » Fri Jul 20, 2018 1:22 pm

Elminster wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:15 am
Nearly finished putting together parts order list for v7.7. 2 questions, all to do with holes.

What do I need to order for:

Fiducials:Fiducial_0.5mm_Dia_1mm_Outer
Tipex? :lol:

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1024MAK
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Re: BeebSCSI 7_7

Post by 1024MAK » Fri Jul 20, 2018 1:25 pm

Duncan, all joking aside, good luck with the various projects.

If everything works out, are you intending on posting up your BOMs?

Mark

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Elminster
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Re: BeebSCSI 7_7

Post by Elminster » Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:56 pm

Could do. Half of them RC2014 boards. I then have 3 beebscsi and freewifi to build for acorns.

Edit: oh and working on the usb to electron header single cable thingy
Last edited by Elminster on Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Elminster
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Re: BeebSCSI 7_7

Post by Elminster » Fri Jul 20, 2018 6:57 pm

simoni wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 10:38 am
Fiducials are alignment markers used for board production when using pick and place machines - it is not a 'component' that needs to be purchased; it's an optical marker on the PCB surface.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fiducial_ ... uit_boards

The board contains 3 such markers (F1, F2 and F3) and actual 4 mounting holes (MK1-MK4).
Explains my confusing. Being in the BOM I was scratching my head. Was wondering how I was going to buy holes.

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danielj
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Re: BeebSCSI 7_7

Post by danielj » Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:06 pm

In KiCad it's a good idea to tie a footprint to something in the schematic, otherwise when you reload the netlist in the PCB editor it'll go AWOL :) . Once something's in the schematic it gets yoinked into the BOM when that's created.

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Re: BeebSCSI 7_7

Post by simoni » Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:28 pm

I was following some good advice from a fellow Acorn fan who worked for a company that did pick and place assembly. Placing the fiducials in the schematic helps them to identify the markers during the process. Also, as Daniel states; it's generally a good idea to have everything in the schematic as well as in the PCB design.

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Elminster
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Re: BeebSCSI 7_7

Post by Elminster » Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:44 pm

That is okay I found a cheap seller of holes on eBay :wink:

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1024MAK
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Re: BeebSCSI 7_7

Post by 1024MAK » Fri Jul 20, 2018 8:36 pm

Elminster wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:44 pm
That is okay I found a cheap seller of holes on eBay :wink:
Polomints?

Mark

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Elminster
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Re: BeebSCSI 7_7

Post by Elminster » Sun Jul 22, 2018 7:44 pm

Last one that had me scratching my head was that J3/J4 are the same connector and labelled JTAG.

So looks like my grand total for 3 boards (with some spare bits left over and some bits I had) is £64.36, i.e. about £22 each.

Is that what other people got?

I have Xlinx and Altera programmers. Looks like I need to get an atmel one now as well.

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simoni
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Re: BeebSCSI 7_7

Post by simoni » Sun Jul 22, 2018 8:15 pm

In the 7_7 design both the CPLD and AVR are joined in a JTAG chain, so there is only one JTAG header for both chips.

The reason there are two headers labelled JTAG is that one is a standard 10 pin JTAG header suitable for both AVR and Xilinx programmers and the other is a tag-connect header. Tag-connect is a header that doesn't require any component mounted on the board; so, when making many boards, it can cut the production cost - however you have to have a tag-connect header cable (which is about 50 euros one-off cost). This is why I included the standard header too.

On another note, yes you will require both a CPLD and AVR programmer (both JTAG capable).

All of the above is covered by the documentation: https://www.domesday86.com/?page_id=439

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Elminster
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Re: BeebSCSI 7_7

Post by Elminster » Sun Jul 22, 2018 9:35 pm

Okay thanks. I will order an ICE Basic as well.

Doubles the price of the board (for 3) but hopefully I will get to use it for other boards as well.

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simoni
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Re: BeebSCSI 7_7

Post by simoni » Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:10 am

I've now added a 3D printable case for the BeebSCSI board to the Github (both OpenSCAD and STL files are available). The case is completely reconfigurable in openSCAD (you can change the size, ports and decoration):
1.jpg
Note that the BeebSCSI board requires all connectors to be right-angle (except the power connector which should be straight) in order to fit the case correctly. The case is held together by 2x M3 counter-sunk head screws.

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Re: BeebSCSI 7_7

Post by aotta » Thu Aug 09, 2018 6:16 am

Really nice! Time to save money for a 3d printer...

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Elminster
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Re: BeebSCSI 7_7

Post by Elminster » Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:31 pm

Are people using AVR Studio IDE (i.e. Windows only) or are they using one of the command line linux methods to program the chip?

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danielj
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Re: BeebSCSI 7_7

Post by danielj » Mon Sep 10, 2018 9:46 pm

Avr studio for me...

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Elminster
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Re: BeebSCSI 7_7

Post by Elminster » Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:07 pm

Oh well. Windows it is then. I think all chip companies should standardise on programmers and software, I have about 6 programmers now, and as many software packages, spread across 3 OSs.

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Elminster
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Re: BeebSCSI 7_7

Post by Elminster » Mon Sep 10, 2018 10:53 pm

Hmmm. Appears the Atmel_ICE Basic only comes with the 10 to 6 pin connector, and I need the 10 to 10. Can by them seperately but ATMEL charge you £40!

But I think I can just get one of these adaptor boards

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Adapter-1-27 ... 3415616847

And use the cable from my Xlinix porgrammer.

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danielj
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Re: BeebSCSI 7_7

Post by danielj » Tue Sep 11, 2018 5:18 am

Should work!

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Elminster
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Re: BeebSCSI 7_7

Post by Elminster » Tue Sep 11, 2018 9:09 am

Ordered one, but although UK, the person is on holiday, so not going to get it till mid next week. So in the meantime I also ordered 10 of these from JCLPCB

https://atoomnet.net/atmel-ice-header-adapter/

So if anyone else just buys the ICE Basic and get stuck for a cable, and you are reading this, I may have spares.

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Elminster
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Re: BeebSCSI 7_7

Post by Elminster » Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:21 pm

Adaptor came at last. Waited 20 mins not seeing device till I realised you need to use Daisy Chain function to set the right device.

But what am I doing wrong now while setting the fuses? Not used ATMEL ICE before, throwing an error. Only difference is my target device says 3.3v and the picture on the Wiki shows 5.3V

https://www.domesday86.com/wp-content/u ... loader.png
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simoni
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Re: BeebSCSI 7_7

Post by simoni » Thu Sep 20, 2018 8:49 pm

Sometimes the AVR can be a little odd. Try programming it first and then setting the fuses. It can jiggle it into working. On the other hand it could be the programmer; you could also try lowering the programming clock speed.

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Elminster
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Re: BeebSCSI 7_7

Post by Elminster » Thu Sep 20, 2018 9:07 pm

Right you are. Programming it first and then doing the fuses did the job.

Now have the flashing green LED (I wasnt convinved I had not put on the SMD LED either backwards or upside down till about 60 seconds ago when it started flashing!)
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Re: BeebSCSI 7_7

Post by simoni » Fri Sep 21, 2018 3:58 am

I've never quite worked out why that happens sometimes - I guess it could be something to do with the pre-installed bootloader interfering with the fuse programming; still, you are up and running - once you have the solid flash, you are in BeebSCSI bootloader land - just pop the BEEBSCSI.bin on an SD card (no exFAT support in the bootloader, so less than 32Gbytes is a good idea) - and it should program the main code for you.

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Elminster
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Re: BeebSCSI 7_7

Post by Elminster » Fri Sep 21, 2018 8:50 am

Thanks. That is todays job. See if the SDCard slot works, that was harder to solder than the Atmel or Xlinix, I should have put it on first instead of last.

My only comment on the build of board v7.7 (so far) is because I am using jumper wires to power the 5v rather than the proper connector, I have caught myself several times trying to plug the power in the wrong way around. The '5v' is quite large on the silk screen and the '-' and '+' are quite small. But where the 5v appears on the silk screen is the '-' . Only a very minor thing, perhaps I should get new glasses. But if you are looking for extra things for v7.8 you could add that to the list. Perhaps swap '5V in' to say 'in 5V' so that the '5V' appears under the '+' terminal?

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Elminster
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Re: BeebSCSI 7_7

Post by Elminster » Tue Sep 25, 2018 7:21 pm

It programmed seemingly fine. But could not get it to work on my main master, (yes it has an IDE hacked MOS but I tried both 1.5 and 1.3 unhacked ADFS ROMS). Anyway got out one of the Beebs, and it didnt even have access flashing, cleaned the contacts and bang it worked.

I did then realise I have no idea how to use ADFS :)

So that is one working, one waiting to be programmed and a third and final board waiting to be build.

I build a proper conector for the beebscsi so i didnt keep plugging in wires the wrong way around, and even though I have the proper tool those connectors are tiny.... any way done now. So if you ignore the fuses issue above all the issues I had in the build were either oddly behaving beebs (could be it doesnt like gosdc, or copros, or videonula or something else, will try on unexapnded master) or my lack of use of the tools (atmel mainly).

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