Gotek Flashfloppy not recognising blank ADFS discs?

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jms2
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Gotek Flashfloppy not recognising blank ADFS discs?

Post by jms2 » Sat May 26, 2018 2:10 pm

I've been loading more and more disk images onto my Gotek and realised it would be handy to put some blank ones on there as well. Blank DFS images seem to work fine, but I've encountered some problems with blank ADFS images. When I try to select them, Flashfloppy reports "ERR 31".

I tried at first with a blank ADFS M image saved from ADFS Explorer. When this didn't work I created a blank image in Elkulator. Both these images work fine in Elkulator, but both give ERR 31 with Flashfloppy.

Then I tried some other experiments:

1) Known good ADF, wiped on Electron using the Gotek: This was OK, and became blank as expected.
2) Known good ADF, wiped on emulator: Worked OK.
3) One of the blank images which previously didn't work, but with a dummy file put there by Elkulator: Did not work - still gives ERR 31.

The difference seems to be this: the working files start with the following 16 bytes:
07 00 00 CF 00 00 D4 00 00 FF 00 00 00 00 00 00

Whereas the non-working ones start like this:
07 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00

Is this a limitation with Flashfloppy? I'm using v.0.9.19a.

Ottly
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Re: Gotek Flashfloppy not recognising blank ADFS discs?

Post by Ottly » Sat May 26, 2018 2:55 pm

Are they fully padded out blank disk images? Would cause problems if there not.

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Re: Gotek Flashfloppy not recognising blank ADFS discs?

Post by jms2 » Sat May 26, 2018 3:43 pm

No they are only 2k in size. They are just whatever Elkulator and ADFS explorer put out. But I’m sure you are onto something!

This doesn’t seem to apply to DFS?

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Re: Gotek Flashfloppy not recognising blank ADFS discs?

Post by danielj » Sat May 26, 2018 4:22 pm

It does - they need to be full sized and padded out. The interleave also needs to be right. I suggest you create an empty 640kb file and format them using ADFS on the gotek? It'll put the right directory structures on them.

d.

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Re: Gotek Flashfloppy not recognising blank ADFS discs?

Post by jms2 » Sat May 26, 2018 8:21 pm

Non-padded DFS images do mount and catalogue correctly though. Does this mean that they have very little free space on - ie they never grow to the right size?

Would make sense if so, because all the other DFS and ADFS images that I can find on the Gotek are fully padded.

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Re: Gotek Flashfloppy not recognising blank ADFS discs?

Post by danielj » Sat May 26, 2018 9:47 pm

I'm not sure whether keir's implemented any padding - I don't think he has as yet, so I suspect truncated ssds will never expand.

d.

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Re: Gotek Flashfloppy not recognising blank ADFS discs?

Post by jms2 » Sat May 26, 2018 10:59 pm

Not experimented with *free yet, but adding padding to my unrecognised images has fixed them. :D

I did also make a file containing 640*1024 zeros, with a .ADL extension, with a view to formatting it, but this was rejected with err 31 again.
Maybe it needs .ADF?

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Re: Gotek Flashfloppy not recognising blank ADFS discs?

Post by danielj » Sat May 26, 2018 11:14 pm

Host = acorn
In your ff.cfg and then name them all adf :)

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Re: Gotek Flashfloppy not recognising blank ADFS discs?

Post by *STEVE » Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:50 am

Hi, this seems like the most appropriate place to post this issue. I have a BBC B+128 with ADFS 1.33 and am experiencing problems. I have a DataCenter-E set up with a Winchester (CF) as Drive :0 which is working just fine with ADFS. I've also got my Gotek FF (running latest 3.13a firmware) connected (Drive :4). Whilst I can read DFS .SSD and .DSD (and the STH .HFE collection) just fine with the Gotek, whenever I try to read either of the attached files I get errors (garbage in the !Readme about half way down and BASIC files like Utilities and WFS-IW get Bad Program). Other than setting host = acorn in FF.CFG is there anything else that I'm missing? *. gives a valid directory listing, the issue seems to be some way into files.
M128Welc80.zip
(133.59 KiB) Downloaded 5 times
L3Utils3.zip
(272.74 KiB) Downloaded 3 times
Oh, and I get exactly the same with my master 128 - you'll notice one of these is the welcome disk.
Any advice would be super-valued.

Best Regards,
Steve.
  • BBC Model B+ 128k
  • BBC Master 128k (work in progress)
  • +more

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Re: Gotek Flashfloppy not recognising blank ADFS discs?

Post by danielj » Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:35 am

The Flashfloppy firmware doesn't know if these are interleaved or not. As there's no metadata in these sector image files all you can do is see if a file looks correct when you try and read it, and if it doesn't assume that you've ended up with a non-interleaved file. Looks like they're not. I've used ADFS Explorer to convert them to interleaved images (attached) that should work in theory. Let me know!

d.
Attachments
ADFs-interleaved.zip
(411.85 KiB) Downloaded 1 time

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Re: Gotek Flashfloppy not recognising blank ADFS discs?

Post by *STEVE » Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:12 am

danielj wrote:
Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:35 am
The Flashfloppy firmware doesn't know if these are interleaved or not. As there's no metadata in these sector image files all you can do is see if a file looks correct when you try and read it, and if it doesn't assume that you've ended up with a non-interleaved file. Looks like they're not. I've used ADFS Explorer to convert them to interleaved images (attached) that should work in theory. Let me know!

d.
Hi Daniel,
Interesting comment about the interleaving - this makes sense. Mixed results initially though, the modified M128Welc... disk worked perfectly with the Gotek/FF. However the L3Utils3... was just the same with corruptions. I thought this might have accidentally been saved with Interleave off so had a poke around in ADFS explorer and managed to get things to work.

This is what I did:
1) Open your L3Utils3 in ADFS explorer.
2) Open a second instance of ADFS explorer and go Disc - New Disc Image As... - 80 Track DSD (640K .adl)
3) Make sure Pad Disc Images and Interleaved Disc are ticked in Options
4) Select all the files in the existing disc and drag them across to the new instance of ADFS explorer
5) Save with a new filename (and .adl)
6) Rename the file to .adf
7) Copy to USB stick and hey-presto it works !
L3Utils3-IL.zip
(199.67 KiB) Not downloaded yet
So, in summary a few key things.
a) You can't simply open and re-save a file in ADFS explorer having turned Options - Interleaved Disc on. I don't think it's updating the image, seems best to generate a new one from scratch and re-add the files.
b) Gotek/FlashFloppy must use Interleaved images only, and as you say there's no way to indicate this within the file itself (this also means that ADFS explorer doesn't tell you if it's an interleaved image or not)
c) Gotek/FlashFloppy needs the .adl files renamed to .adf for correct operation.

Thanks for the help resolving, hopefully this small tutorial should help others.

Steve.
  • BBC Model B+ 128k
  • BBC Master 128k (work in progress)
  • +more

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Re: Gotek Flashfloppy not recognising blank ADFS discs?

Post by danielj » Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:15 am

*STEVE wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:12 am
Interesting comment about the interleaving - this makes sense. Mixed results initially though, the modified M128Welc... disk worked perfectly with the Gotek/FF. However the L3Utils3... was just the same with corruptions. I thought this might have accidentally been saved with Interleave off so had a poke around in ADFS explorer and managed to get things to work.
Good work! - yes, I did accidentally re-save it uninterleaved. The method I tend to use is just to load in the right format (either interleaved or not), uncheck/check the relevant box, then save again. This does tend to work for me but is clearly prone to issues when you don't double check what you actually saved :)

d.

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Re: Gotek Flashfloppy not recognising blank ADFS discs?

Post by BeebMaster » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:50 am

I don't think I understand...does this Flash Floppy thing assume that any disc image it is given is laid out head 0 track 0, head 1 track 0, head 0 track, head 1 track 1 etc. and there's no way to tell it otherwise? Seems an unfortunate assumption creating needless disc image manipulation given that no 8-bit Acorn format ever used interleaving.
Image

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Re: Gotek Flashfloppy not recognising blank ADFS discs?

Post by KenLowe » Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:17 pm

Flashfloppy is very flexible and can be configured for different interleaving options. There are default disk layout assumptions made for the different file extensions, but if they're not correct, these assumptions can be overridden. See img.cfg options here:
Flashfloppy Wiki wrote:file-layout = interleaved* | sequential | reverse-sideN | sides-swapped
  • Image file track layout
  • Multiple values can be specified, separated by commas (eg. sequential,reverse-side1)
  • sequential: Sequential cylinder ordering: all side 0, then side 1
  • interleaved: Interleaved cylinder ordering: c0s0, c0s1, c1s0, c1s1, ...
  • reverse-sideN: Side-N cylinders are in reverse order (high to low) (N=0,1)
  • sides-swapped: Sides 0 and 1 ordering is swapped in the image file

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Re: Gotek Flashfloppy not recognising blank ADFS discs?

Post by danielj » Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:22 pm

BeebMaster wrote:
Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:50 am
I don't think I understand...does this Flash Floppy thing assume that any disc image it is given is laid out head 0 track 0, head 1 track 0, head 0 track, head 1 track 1 etc. and there's no way to tell it otherwise? Seems an unfortunate assumption creating needless disc image manipulation given that no 8-bit Acorn format ever used interleaving.
As Ken says, it can be taught new formats quite easily, but yes - it makes assumptions based on the format that the majority of images are found in! Headerless sector images are horribly imperfect! :)

d.

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