Soldering and Hotair station options

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marcusjambler
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Soldering and Hotair station options

Post by marcusjambler » Thu Apr 05, 2018 12:37 pm

Hi All

I'm considering taking the plunge and getting a soldering / hotair station for repairs and new builds etc.
My 25w antex has served me well :D but is severely limiting me... especially for chip replacement.
I havent even tried any SMD soldering... but I would like to...

I have an eye on one of these :
852D+.jpg
What are the experiences and preferences of the group?

Marcus :D

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danielj
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Re: Soldering and Hotair station options

Post by danielj » Thu Apr 05, 2018 12:45 pm

I, and many others in the group, use a Hakko 888D as an iron - it's bloomin' excellent:
https://www.hakko.com/english/products/ ... x888d.html

Buy from Dancap (they don't do online sales, but do have an online presence/catalogue):
http://www.dancap.co.uk/

I use it for all the SMD stuff that I've been doing (e.g. the beebscsis, so you see how fine-a-pitch you can solder with just an iron). Hot air is useful for when you're taking things apart. I've got a sparkfun hot air thingy which works really well (it's 110v, don't ask...), but I think lots of people would say that Aoyue are pretty reasonable for the money?

d.

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Re: Soldering and Hotair station options

Post by Prime » Thu Apr 05, 2018 3:09 pm

As Daniel said, I'd go with the Hakko 888D for soldering.

For desoldering / hot air I have one of these : https://www.pcb-soldering.co.uk/aoyue-2 ... ation.html

They also do versions that just have the hot air or just have the desolder gun. But the desolder gun is useful for removing components from boards without as much chance of knackering the board.

Cheers.

Phill.

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Re: Soldering and Hotair station options

Post by RobC » Thu Apr 05, 2018 3:11 pm

Completely agree with all of that.

I use the Hakko iron and it's great even for SMD work. My hot air station is an Aoyue and I've no complaints (just a matter of getting used to which air and temperature settings to use).

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Re: Soldering and Hotair station options

Post by marcusjambler » Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:00 pm

Thanks fellas :)

I've emailed DANCAP for a price etc
I think I'll just go with a new iron for now...

The hotair tool idea is mostly about desoldering ICs without cutting the legs off, which is what I've done up to now.
It works, but can get pricey if its the wrong chip #-o

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Re: Soldering and Hotair station options

Post by RobC » Thu Apr 05, 2018 5:51 pm

marcusjambler wrote:The hotair tool idea is mostly about desoldering ICs without cutting the legs off
I just use one of these (as recommended by Mark@Retroclinic): http://cpc.farnell.com/miller-abeco/394 ... ing%20pump

The flexible nose means you can get right into the joint and, with a little new solder added first, I've not had any problems with Beeb chips - I've removed a fair few Video ULAs now without damaging a single one :D

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Re: Soldering and Hotair station options

Post by danielj » Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:01 pm

Hot air can be used for through hole ICs, but a pump is arguably better, or one of the desoldering stations that suck. Hot air's best for reworking SMD components. I use one of the rubber nosed pumps for through hole. The trick is making sure that the pins move freely before you try and pull it out!

d.

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Re: Soldering and Hotair station options

Post by 1024MAK » Thu Apr 05, 2018 6:22 pm

The difference between hot air and air suction is simple. With hot air the aim is to have all the solder joints at a temperature where the solder is molten. Whereas with suction, the idea to to suck all the solder from the plated through hole leaving the pin free to move (single sided PCBs are normally much easier to desolder components from).

Which works best very much depends on a number of factors. Such as how good you are with the tools, the quality of the tools you are using, the size of the PCB pads and tracks, and most importantly, the size of the plated through PCB holes.

If the pins of the chip only just fit in the PCB hole, trying to get all the solder out of every pin, so that every single leg can move, is frustrating difficult. That's when hot air can help.

Mark

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Re: Soldering and Hotair station options

Post by CMcDougall » Thu Apr 05, 2018 7:57 pm

:shock: £89 -240 ,
I still use my Draper I bought 24 year ago from B&Q for £5 to fix the reverse switch on my 205GTI car for its MOT :D
ok, it needs sandpapered every use though, wiped with damp sponge, and the solder sucker I bought 3+yr ago cost £2
solderwick was £2 for 20m.

* gets coat * 8-[
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Re: Soldering and Hotair station options

Post by crj » Thu Apr 05, 2018 8:23 pm

Hey, at least that's down from the half a grand people had to pay for a Metcal iron a decade ago!

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Re: Soldering and Hotair station options

Post by CMcDougall » Sun Apr 08, 2018 8:53 am

DaveH had a cool old desolderer that done a pin at a time with sucker build in (with wool filter). Anybody know if they are still sold & name of it??
This would save me 1/4 of time and less broke chips!
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hoglet
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Re: Soldering and Hotair station options

Post by hoglet » Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:19 am

CMcDougall wrote:DaveH had a cool old desolderer that done a pin at a time with sucker build in (with wool filter). Anybody know if they are still sold & name of it??
This would save me 1/4 of time and less broke chips!
Was it this sort of thing? (A Duratool D00672)
http://cpc.farnell.com/duratool/d00672/ ... dp/SD01384

(I have one of these and it works very well)

Dave

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Re: Soldering and Hotair station options

Post by daveejhitchins » Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:57 am

I had two . . . The one I kept is an Ungar - the one I let go was a Pace - but I can't remember who I gave/sold it to (if it's YOU then I've found some more bit and pieces for it, so contact me!)

I think Weller may have taken-over Ungar, as some of the images (Google) show a similar set-up with their name on it!

I may be looking myself shortly, as I'm running out of the consumables :?

Dave H :D
Parts: UM6502CE, GAL22V10D, GAL16V8D, AS6C62256A, TC514400AZ, WD1772, R6522, TMS27C512, AT28C256
Products: ARA II, ARA III, ABR, ATI, AP6, MGC, AP5 . . .
For a price list, contact me at: Retro Hardware AT dave ej hitchins DOT plus DOT com

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Re: Soldering and Hotair station options

Post by CMcDougall » Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:11 am

^ cheers Dave's 8)

pity did not buy your spare, as it would of saved me lots of time and broken chips!
not that I would use it everyday, but it was great & easy when you gave me a shot for something on my elk :D

EDIT: just found this for only £27 on eBay from china, might do the job? as only use a few times..
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/220V-450-450 ... O38RAzhR6Q
Edit2 : also from UK £21 https://www.ebay.co.uk/p/858d-SMD-LED-N ... 0005.m1851
would these do the same thing??
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Re: Soldering and Hotair station options

Post by daveejhitchins » Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:31 am

CMcDougall wrote:would these do the same thing??
Yes and no . . . It would be a lot harder with the hot-air blower than a desolder station and more likely to do damage!

Dave H :D
Parts: UM6502CE, GAL22V10D, GAL16V8D, AS6C62256A, TC514400AZ, WD1772, R6522, TMS27C512, AT28C256
Products: ARA II, ARA III, ABR, ATI, AP6, MGC, AP5 . . .
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Re: Soldering and Hotair station options

Post by hoglet » Sun Apr 08, 2018 11:54 am

Col,

I bought an 858D off eBay at Christmas and I would not recommend it.

It works fine (so far), but I opened it up after hearing some horror stories concerning safety. Many of the metal case parts were not earthed adequately. So I spent a couple of hours adding lots of additional earthing before I was happy it was reasonably safe.

Another fault on mine was the switch was on the neutral side [-X

See:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPy9XYGDmWQ

Also more vids on youtube if you search for 858D safety.

Dave

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Re: Soldering and Hotair station options

Post by 1024MAK » Sun Apr 08, 2018 1:02 pm

If you don't fancy spending too much money, there are also these:
IMG_6695.JPG
Heater vacuum desoldering iron
On eBay. Likely also available elsewhere.

Don't know how good they are though.

Mark

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1024MAK
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Re: Soldering and Hotair station options

Post by 1024MAK » Sun Apr 08, 2018 1:09 pm

hoglet wrote:Col,

I bought an 858D off eBay at Christmas and I would not recommend it.

It works fine (so far), but I opened it up after hearing some horror stories concerning safety. Many of the metal case parts were not earthed adequately. So I spent a couple of hours adding lots of additional earthing before I was happy it was reasonably safe.

Another fault on mine was the switch was on the neutral side [-X

See:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WPy9XYGDmWQ

Also more vids on youtube if you search for 858D safety.

Dave
Note that these faults, along with dubious quality of the U.K. style 13A plug and dubious quality of the mains flex are not uncommon on items sourced from China.

I suspect that they make no distinction between line (live) and neutral, as most of their mains plugs are reversible two pin types.

Mark

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Re: Soldering and Hotair station options

Post by JonC » Sun Apr 08, 2018 1:29 pm

1024MAK wrote:If you don't fancy spending too much money, there are also these:
IMG_6695.JPG
On eBay. Likely also available elsewhere.

Don't know how good they are though.

Mark
I had mixed results with these, tended to be ok on newer solder, but problematic on older stuff.
A lot easier than trying to hold an Iron and standard solder sucker though! :lol:
Jon
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Re: Soldering and Hotair station options

Post by dominicbeesley » Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:48 am

1024MAK wrote:If you don't fancy spending too much money, there are also these:
IMG_6695.JPG
On eBay. Likely also available elsewhere.

Don't know how good they are though.

Mark
I tried one of those, it was "ok" but slow and cumbersome and not much better than solder wick. After one 40 pin DIP I'd had enough and bought this:

http://cpc.farnell.com/duratool/d00672/ ... gKhYfD_BwE

Which is far superior, I've been using a sucker, like the one RobC posted for years which for a low-cost / light use entry is probably the best I;ve tried. It has a nice soft silicone tip which makes the suction more effective, I bought a bag of replacement tips around 10 years ago and have never needed to use one. In the end the push button has become stuck but that is after a lot of heavy use, much on vintage valved equipment which works it hard!

However, the combined job posted by Prime above is what I'd go for if I didn't already have a separate SMD hot air + soldering iron set up it looks the dogs!

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Re: Soldering and Hotair station options

Post by CMcDougall » Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:50 am

Just got & had a go of the Xtreme built in desolder pump, just got 4 rams out a M128 in record time, with no broken chips either :D
ok, one track ripped up, so would also recommend using braid on components side to poke against legs with still too much solder on.

Negatives, the yellow button only lasted 4 goes, so now have to hold it down & let go quick :x

Positives, the pump suction is miles better than all my other 4 , now to clean all the gutter down pipes with it! :lol:

EDIT: another Neg, the thing is now squint, so may be not to sit in a 45degree angle stand! :shock:
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Re: Soldering and Hotair station options

Post by crj » Thu Apr 12, 2018 11:53 pm

dominicbeesley wrote:After one 40 pin DIP I'd had enough and bought this:

http://cpc.farnell.com/duratool/d00672/ ... gKhYfD_BwE
Ooh! That's way cheaper than I thought desoldering stations could be!

Tempted.

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Re: Soldering and Hotair station options

Post by lcww1 » Fri Apr 13, 2018 6:01 am

crj wrote:
dominicbeesley wrote:After one 40 pin DIP I'd had enough and bought this:

http://cpc.farnell.com/duratool/d00672/ ... gKhYfD_BwE
Ooh! That's way cheaper than I thought desoldering stations could be!

Tempted.
I also bought one of these recently, and I’ve been pleased with it so far - I was largely convinced by Jan Beta’s video review of what I think is essentially an identical generic Chinese unit - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EQEx7Cezz9o

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Re: Soldering and Hotair station options

Post by 1024MAK » Fri Apr 13, 2018 7:05 am

Yep, there are numerous badged units around. They also (at least in the past) also sold similar units, but just as a normal "temperature controlled" soldering iron station. I got a Maplin badged soldering iron version in one of their sales many years ago.
IMG_6756.JPG
Maplin ZD-916 soldering station
Mark

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Re: Soldering and Hotair station options

Post by daveejhitchins » Fri Apr 13, 2018 7:13 am

dominicbeesley wrote:I tried one of those, it was "ok" but slow and cumbersome and not much better than solder wick. After one 40 pin DIP I'd had enough and bought this:
and bought this:
A slightly lower cost version here. Just a slightly different case.

There's also this review here.
And this is the one CPC are selling.

Dave H :D
Parts: UM6502CE, GAL22V10D, GAL16V8D, AS6C62256A, TC514400AZ, WD1772, R6522, TMS27C512, AT28C256
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Re: Soldering and Hotair station options

Post by Bat » Fri Apr 13, 2018 6:05 pm

Hi,
A mate recommended this, not got one yet but he said there was a lot of good feedback about it.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/aw/d/B01HY1 ... ecialists#
Cheers,
Gavin :)

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Re: Soldering and Hotair station options

Post by 1024MAK » Fri Apr 13, 2018 6:22 pm

I've got this one:
IMG_6759.JPG
Yihua 8786D
The fan for the hot air gun stopped working when I was shrinking some heatshrink. I've not investigated yet to find out what the problem is.

Mark

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Re: Soldering and Hotair station options

Post by eXne » Sun Apr 15, 2018 9:05 am

I use either Weller or Pace smd rework stations for many years now and I’m still happy.
Maybe a bit higher priced but it is worth it.
I started with the 1206 components and QFP opackages but the increase number of pins and decrease of pin space are going fast. So you really need the proper soldering tools. Not to mention BGA :wink:
For desoldering I prefer a heated desoldering tool iso a vacuumpump. I gives you more conrol and less pcb damage.

Etienne
Acorn BBC + 6502 2nd proc and CoPro, Master 128 + 80186

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Re: Soldering and Hotair station options

Post by CMcDougall » Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:46 pm

bought this for a laugh eBay "40W Electric Soldering Sucker Iron Guns Temperatures Welding Soldering Iron TH" -'forcetuen' for £2.82 inc P&P :shock:
sol.jpg
40W
cut off foreign plug, put on UK 3A plug, it heated up , soldered & fixed solar light switch for garden, then 3 pins on M128,
then it went really red in middle :o , a 'pop' and that was the end of that!! :lol:
least it never blew the 3A fuse :D
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Re: Soldering and Hotair station options

Post by marcusjambler » Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:21 am

went really red in middle :o , a 'pop' and that was the end of that!! :lol:
Hahaha sounds fun #-o

I'll not add one of those to the christmas list

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