Cheap SD/MMC Readers

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danielj
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Cheap SD/MMC Readers

Post by danielj »

This is a placeholder post for the latest versions of SmartSPI and MMFS. These are bugfixed and more up-to date file system ROMs that work with Martin Mather's MMC reader design, the TurboMMC hardware, and the cheap SD Card Readers available on ebay.

Latest version of SmartSPI: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9208&start=150#p129221

Latest version of MMFS: https://github.com/hoglet67/MMFS/releases

With MMFS, you need to use the correct ROM version - see: https://github.com/hoglet67/MMFS/wiki/Release-structure

Wiring for SD reader to userport: viewtopic.php?t=1919&start=330#p99449
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sirmorris
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Re: Cheap SD/MMC Readers

Post by sirmorris »

If you don't want to solder or otherwise build your own adapter then a compatible inexpensive reader is offered for sale in the trading topic, other inexpensive compatible readers are available ;)

(Feel free to delete this post if inappropriate)
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danielj
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Re: Cheap SD/MMC Readers

Post by danielj »

No, that's fine :D
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lurkio
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Re: Cheap SD/MMC Readers

Post by lurkio »

danielj wrote:Latest version of SmartSPI: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=9208&start=150#p129221
If it helps, here's the current latest version (1613) of the SmartSPI ROM-image as a raw data file (inside a zip file) -- and not on a .SSD disc-image:
(Scroll down to attachments to first post.)

:?:
steve3000
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Re: Cheap SD/MMC Readers

Post by steve3000 »

I'm setting up a mmc interface for a friend's beeb and thought I'd download a fresh copy of the "beeb.mmb" file pre-filled with games discs, but I'm really struggling to find where I can download this from...

I've tried searching the forum and google without success, the download link which I'm sure I used in the past on this thread appears to be dead, and the beeb.mmb file mentioned here doesn't seem to have a download link at all. Am I missing something obvious?
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lurkio
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Re: Cheap SD/MMC Readers

Post by lurkio »

steve3000 wrote:I've tried searching the forum and google without success, the download link which I'm sure I used in the past on this thread appears to be dead, and the beeb.mmb file mentioned here doesn't seem to have a download link at all. Am I missing something obvious?
No, it is quite tricky trying to wade through the forums to track down a copy of BEEB.MMB. For now, try this one:
:idea:
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Re: Cheap SD/MMC Readers

Post by hoglet »

steve3000
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Re: Cheap SD/MMC Readers

Post by steve3000 »

Ahh, brilliant, I'm not going mad then :)

Thanks both for those links!
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Re: Cheap SD/MMC Readers

Post by CMcDougall »

steve3000 wrote: tried searching the forum and google without success, the download link which I'm sure I used in the past on this thread appears to be dead
it's not dead :roll:
if you look after the first few edits, then my text, then a further 4 edits below this, the first one is from member 'duikkie'
which still works (222+ other folk must know!! :lol: ), as on the forum, not an old upload site #-o
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Re: Cheap SD/MMC Readers

Post by duikkie »

i uploaded my beeb.mmb a few times by now.
it has not change that much in time because
i don't play games.
and i think most not running games are fixed
for the beeb !!
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Re: Cheap SD/MMC Readers

Post by SmellyGeekBoy »

It didn't seem worth starting a new thread for this so I thought I'd try tacking it on here - I don't suppose anyone could burn the latest MMFS ROM for me? I have a very basic user port MMC interface that I'm using with my Model B but the ROM is 3 years old now and it seems there's been a lot of active development in this area. Unfortunately I don't have an EEPROM programmer or I'd do it myself!

Thanks!
Hey, hey, 16K, what does that get you today?
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Re: Cheap SD/MMC Readers

Post by Swainy »

Hi guys, I’m thinking of buying a model b beeb and would like to know what my options are when buying an SD card solution. I haven’t got a soldering iron so ideally I would like something easy to install. Cheers.
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Re: Cheap SD/MMC Readers

Post by Elminster »

There are may MMC/SDC solutions. If you are looking for prebuilt ones with minimum fuss and effort (but more cost), then popular ones include:

GoSDC - John Kortink
Micro SPI MMC - RetroClinic
Turbo MMC - IFEL

But another popular choice these days is the GoTek, again if not wanting to DIY then RetroClinc sells these.

There are others, some are not always in stick, or require some DIY.

Full list on the Hardware List
https://elminster.github.io/hardware
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Re: Cheap SD/MMC Readers

Post by Swainy »

Nice one, thanks!
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danielj
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Re: Cheap SD/MMC Readers

Post by danielj »

If you have a disk interface fitted already, you'll find the gotek to be the most "compatible" solution as so far as the beeb's concerned it's a normal floppy disk drive.
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Re: Cheap SD/MMC Readers

Post by rmbrowngr »

I've always wondered what the differences are between these two devices to try to determine what are the pros and cons.
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BBC B+ 64K (128K upgraded) with Duel OS, Raspberry Pi and Gotek.
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danielj
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Re: Cheap SD/MMC Readers

Post by danielj »

They're all based on Martin Mather's MMBeeb which was a freely available design. TurboMMC is a bit faster as it's rejiggled a couple of things. It used to cost £30, not sure how much now (less, I think). The retroclinic one is just a tidy version of the standard design on a PCB that doesn't require any soldering. They both suffer the same issues, namely requiring you to use PC-side software to put disc images into a large file, and that they sometimes don't get on with certain bits of software depending on how that software twiddles the hardware.

To all intents and purposes, the only difference between them is going to be price. You can use MMFS or SmartSPI with either of them (which are both arguably better than the TurboMMC ROM). The speed difference is apparently noticeable, but honestly, 2 seconds here or there isn't going to make anyone start tearing their hair out :D

d.
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Elminster
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Re: Cheap SD/MMC Readers

Post by Elminster »

danielj wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 2:07 pm
If you have a disk interface fitted already, you'll find the gotek to be the most "compatible" solution as so far as the beeb's concerned it's a normal floppy disk drive.
I agree. More money (as a prebuild kit) but pretty much heading to be the defacto standard as a cross-retro-platform type device and very easy to swap between machines without faff. And if you DIY it you get to watch your video howto =D>
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Re: Cheap SD/MMC Readers

Post by flaxcottage »

I've used the TurboMMC and the SPI version and on the Electron the MMFS version.

From experience the SPI amd MMFS are the most difficult to use as read/write systems with any disc system. Yes, they can be used but it is difficult to swap whole discs between the card and disc. The quickest and most reliable method for these systems has been to use the PC to copy files. If the BBC has no DFS then either work perfectly well and there is no problem.

TurboMMC would be my preference due to its semi-compatibility with DFS through the use of the copier ROM. This ROM only works with the TurboMMC and needs to be in SWR. However, it is quick, reliable and accurate.

The comment about the GOTEK drive is well made. It just works. It behaves just like a floppy. The only disadvantage I have found with mine is its inability to create a new blank disc from the BBC or Master. I still need to revisit my PC to add blank discs and rename used blanks. Mind you I only need to do that every 20 or so discs I fill as I have a BBCB4W utility I wrote to add blank floppies to my USB stick when needed and that includes ADFS images as well. The GOTEK is great if the number of disc images/directories on the memory stick is small. It would be a real pain if there were lots of them on the one USB stick.
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Re: Cheap SD/MMC Readers

Post by rmbrowngr »

Elminster wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 3:03 pm
danielj wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 2:07 pm
If you have a disk interface fitted already, you'll find the gotek to be the most "compatible" solution as so far as the beeb's concerned it's a normal floppy disk drive.
I agree. More money (as a prebuild kit) but pretty much heading to be the defacto standard as a cross-retro-platform type device and very easy to swap between machines without faff. And if you DIY it you get to watch your video howto =D>
Totally agree with that. I've never looked back since I got one. I'm even considering buying a second one as I keep swapping the one I have between my B+ and Electrons.
Richard B
Acorn Electrons issue 4 and 6, MRB, Plus 1, AP6, AP5, Pegasus 400, BeebSCSI, Gotek, Raspberry Pi, GoSDC MBE.
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Re: Cheap SD/MMC Readers

Post by Mamejay »

HI Everyone. I am very new to a the BBC. Got a model B on its way.
I am handy with a soldering iron and want to make a board. I can make up an eprom but for the board I am a little confused.
Basically I want to be able to use a normal SD or micro SD card 8-16GB as what is available easily.
What is the best eprom image to use.
Also I found an old schematic at https://swhs.home.xs4all.nl/bbc/mmbeeb/
Can this one still be used or is there a better schematic to follow?
Also I see mention of a CD with the PC software to make up the cards but cannot find it. Any links to what I need to download?

Thanks
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Re: Cheap SD/MMC Readers

Post by tricky »

I think that most homebrew (inc mine) use the cheap (<£ on the slow boat) aduino mmc board. There is a 99p mmc thread with the latest info, but it is a long thread. I think it had links to the windows programs, which can be got from the way back machine from martins original pages.
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Re: Cheap SD/MMC Readers

Post by danielj »

The connections that need to be made are all outlined in the MMFS github readme:
https://github.com/hoglet67/MMFS

d.
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Re: Cheap SD/MMC Readers

Post by Wheel_nut »

flaxcottage wrote:
Tue May 28, 2019 3:30 pm
I've used the TurboMMC and the SPI version and on the Electron the MMFS version.

From experience the SPI amd MMFS are the most difficult to use as read/write systems with any disc system. Yes, they can be used but it is difficult to swap whole discs between the card and disc. The quickest and most reliable method for these systems has been to use the PC to copy files. If the BBC has no DFS then either work perfectly well and there is no problem.

TurboMMC would be my preference due to its semi-compatibility with DFS through the use of the copier ROM. This ROM only works with the TurboMMC and needs to be in SWR. However, it is quick, reliable and accurate.
I too have both the TurboMMC (from Steve Picton - IFEL) and the MicroSPI (from Mark Haysman - RetroClinic)

I can second the view that it is only the TurboMMC which facilitates the copying of Programs and Data from Floppy Disks to the SD Card images using the COP114 Utility which is pre-loaded on the SD Card. You can also switch to the (Floppy) Disk system using the *DISK command and then operate solely on the Floppy DFS. Om ny setup, I have the TurboSPI SD adapter plugged into the User Port and a 1770 Disk Controller with Solidisk's DFS 2.2M Issue 2. The TurboSPI ROM co-exists perfectly well with the DFS 2.2M Issue 2. Also, the Solidisk DFS2.2M Issue 2 works with both the 1770 and 8271 Controllers and reports each controller correctly at Boot-up.

There is only one behaviour that seems not to work correctly. After switching to the Floppy system using *DISK, I have been unable to return to the Card system using *CARD, The Command seems to work but any attempt to access the Card gives the message CARD? The only way back to the Card system is to switch off and on again. EDIT: The explanation for this behaviour is that the *CARD Command is a TurboSPI Command and the *DISK command makes the DFS the "current" Filing System; effectively switching off the TurboSPI.

The MicroSPI does not support the COP114 Utility so in my experience, does not allow copying of files from Floppies to the SD Image. To add SSDs to the BEEB.MMB Image, you can use the MMBImager software provided on the CD that Steve Picton supplies with his TurboSPI. Adding individual files is a little more convoluted as you need a .inf file for each file you are adding.

In summary, it depends on what you want to do with the SD Card system. If all you want to do is use it as a jukebox for the games provided then either will do. If you want to add your Programs and files from Floppy Disk, then I would choose the TurboSPI. Both are as cheap as chips so treat yourself. 8)
Last edited by Wheel_nut on Mon Jul 27, 2020 1:23 am, edited 3 times in total.
#1 BBC Model B Issue 7 + 1770 DFS + Dual TEAC Floppy
#2 BBC Model B Issue 7 + 8271 DFS + Dual Floppy + Speech
#3 BBC Model B Issue 7 + 8271 DFS + Cumana Single Floppy + PiTubeDirect on KenLowe's Tube Level Shifter
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Re: Cheap SD/MMC Readers

Post by Wheel_nut »

Since this is a "Sticky" Thread, I should add this link to the existence of Dave (hoglet)'s design for a PRINTER PORT attached MMFS SD Card adapter for the BBC B. viewtopic.php?f=3&t=17827

If, like me, you need to leave the User Port available for devices like an EPROM Programmer while still using MMFS and an SD Card as the Data medium, you will find this device invaluable.

Details of the hardware modifications and construction of the adapter are fully contained in the referenced thread. as are links to the MMFS Data repository on Github.
#1 BBC Model B Issue 7 + 1770 DFS + Dual TEAC Floppy
#2 BBC Model B Issue 7 + 8271 DFS + Dual Floppy + Speech
#3 BBC Model B Issue 7 + 8271 DFS + Cumana Single Floppy + PiTubeDirect on KenLowe's Tube Level Shifter
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