Simple Electon MMC Interface

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hoglet
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Simple Electon MMC Interface

Post by hoglet » Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:07 pm

Hi Guys,

A couple of days ago I received a Plus One from Dave H. Many thanks for this! After opening it up and having a good look at the schematic, I thought it might be possible to hook at 99p MMC interface directly up to the printer port.

The first issue with this is there is no +5V present, but that's easily fixed with a wire:
IMG_0865.JPG
There are several unconnected pins on the printer port (21..26). I chose pin 26 as this is typically connects to an input on the printer. Which means if you want to occasionally connect a printer than nothing bad should happen. If I had a 100mA PPTC resettable fuse to hand then I would have probably included that as well.

The following connections were then used between the Elk and the SD Card interface:

Code: Select all

Electron      SD Card
   2 GND ===> GND   (Black)
   3 PD0 ===> MOSI  (Grey)
   5 PD1 ===> SCLK  (White)
  10 GND ===> CS    (Blue)
  19 ACK <=== MISO  (Purple)
  26 +5V ===> +5V   (Red)
IMG_0858.JPG
The ROM cartridge contains a new build of MMFS 1.29 specially for the Elk printer port:
IMG_0859.JPG
To support the Plus One printer port, a new device is needed in MMFS:
https://github.com/hoglet67/MMFS/blob/m ... kPlus1.asm
The only part of this that's really new is the subroutines starting with P1_ that do the bit banging of the clock and data. The rest is pretty much the same as for the user port.

And here it is working:
IMG_0860.JPG
IMG_0861.JPG
IMG_0862.JPG
IMG_0863.JPG
IMG_0864.JPG
Speedwise, this will be a bit slower than MMFS connected to an EUP, but honestly it's not too bad at all.

If anyone wants to build one, then you need the latest release of MMFS (currently 1.30), and the build you need is in the "E" directory.
https://github.com/hoglet67/MMFS/releases

Dave
Last edited by hoglet on Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:42 am, edited 2 times in total.

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sydney
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Re: Simple Electon MMC Interface

Post by sydney » Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:11 pm

=D> =D> =D>
Fantastic work Dave
Might have to get an elk now.

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jms2
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Re: Simple Electon MMC Interface

Post by jms2 » Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:22 pm

Nice work Dave - although I don't need to do this as I already have EUP.

What does interest me is your MMB image, which contains Electron games. I was thinking of putting one together myself as I thought that nothing similar existed online. Where did you get this one from, or did you make it?

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hoglet
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Re: Simple Electon MMC Interface

Post by hoglet » Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:33 pm

jms2 wrote: What does interest me is your MMB image, which contains Electron games. I was thinking of putting one together myself as I thought that nothing similar existed online. Where did you get this one from, or did you make it?
It was created by Ray Harper:
http://www.stardot.org.uk/forums/viewto ... 62#p117962

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Re: Simple Electon MMC Interface

Post by rharper » Fri Mar 17, 2017 12:48 pm

jms2 wrote:Nice work Dave - although I don't need to do this as I already have EUP.

What does interest me is your MMB image, which contains Electron games. I was thinking of putting one together myself as I thought that nothing similar existed online. Where did you get this one from, or did you make it?
It's mine all mine :evil:
I forget which thread it is already in but here it is again.
Ray :D
Attachments
ELKBEEBMMB.zip
(3.12 MiB) Downloaded 90 times
Raycomp

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davidb
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Re: Simple Electon MMC Interface

Post by davidb » Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:55 pm

Looks good! I searched for similar projects elsewhere and found this one (via Hackaday).

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Re: Simple Electon MMC Interface

Post by daveejhitchins » Fri Mar 17, 2017 1:58 pm

That's great work Dave . . .

What's needed now is some kind person to knock-up a design for a printed case so that the interface can just plug into the back of the Electron - no wires! The more options for the Electron the better :D

Dave H :D
Parts: UM6502CE, GAL22V10D, GAL16V8D, AS6C62256A, TC514400AZ, WD1772, R6522, TMS27C512, AT28C256
Products: ARA II, ARA III, ABR, ATI, AP6, MGC, AP5 . . .
For a price list, contact me at: Retro Hardware AT dave ej hitchins DOT plus DOT com

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Re: Simple Electon MMC Interface

Post by davidb » Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:45 pm

Is there a way to avoid having to modify the parallel port connections?

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MartinB
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Re: Simple Electon MMC Interface

Post by MartinB » Fri Mar 17, 2017 2:48 pm

Prior to my producing EUP, I did almost exactly the same thing with the Elk Pus 1 Printer port but my implementation was for an UPURS interface (of course!) It is on the forum somewhere (with a video) but I think it's in the forum search 'black hole' so I can't find it just now :roll: . I was however talked out of the idea by the wider forum audience because Plus 1 mods were considered a no-no since they'd likely rule out too many potential users. Consequently and subsequently, EUP was born.... :)

EDIT : Found it! (...by manual means :wink: )

viewtopic.php?f=12&t=3114&p=44957#p44957

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Re: Simple Electon MMC Interface

Post by CMcDougall » Fri Mar 17, 2017 7:07 pm

Nice 8)
I can see my other 2 plus1s having a new 5v wire on them!

its about time someone done a 510 menu driven Discs from the Acorn World DVD....
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Re: Simple Electon MMC Interface

Post by duikkie » Fri Mar 17, 2017 7:32 pm

there is a mode6 menu like the mode7 menu for beeb.mmb , somewhere uploaded on this form

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Re: Simple Electon MMC Interface

Post by duikkie » Fri Mar 17, 2017 7:34 pm

with a little fix you can change the rom in the plus 1 in a bigger prom , maybe holding the rom software , then no slot needed

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Re: Simple Electon MMC Interface

Post by myelin » Fri Mar 17, 2017 8:59 pm

Nice job using the ACK line to get data back in! I'd written off the Plus 1's printer port for anything useful because I thought it was output-only :)
SW/EE from New Zealand, now in Mountain View, CA, making BBC/Electron hardware projects for fun.
Most interesting: Arcflash, FX2+PiTubeDirect Tube/Cartridge adapter, USB cart interface.

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Re: Simple Electon MMC Interface

Post by 1024MAK » Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:40 pm

An output only port is sometimes useful (I use it for testing various LED displays). But yes, the single input line can be used. It is however a lot more limited compared to the 4 to 5 input bits on a full function port.

If you don't want to modify the Plus 1, you could always pick up the +5V from somewhere else. I'm mobile at the moment so can't check, but the analogue port may have a +5V line...

Mark

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Re: Simple Electon MMC Interface

Post by davidb » Fri Mar 17, 2017 10:54 pm

I was just wondering whether one of the other pins on the parallel port could be set high and used to power the MMC interface. I'm guessing that this wasn't an option given that the Plus 1 needed to be modified in the end.

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Re: Simple Electon MMC Interface

Post by myelin » Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:23 pm

davidb wrote:I was just wondering whether one of the other pins on the parallel port could be set high and used to power the MMC interface. I'm guessing that this wasn't an option given that the Plus 1 needed to be modified in the end.
The pins are driven by a 74LS373 or 74ALS373. Looking at some datasheets, it seems that both of these can source 2.6 mA, and will produce a voltage output of 2.4-3.3V while doing so. I don't have any strong specs for SD cards, but read somewhere that they need more like 80 mA, so you're probably out of luck powering one from a logic pin.
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Most interesting: Arcflash, FX2+PiTubeDirect Tube/Cartridge adapter, USB cart interface.

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Re: Simple Electon MMC Interface

Post by myelin » Fri Mar 17, 2017 11:26 pm

1024MAK wrote:If you don't want to modify the Plus 1, you could always pick up the +5V from somewhere else. I'm mobile at the moment so can't check, but the analogue port may have a +5V line...
Looks like +5V comes out on pin 1:
plus one analog port schematic.png
SW/EE from New Zealand, now in Mountain View, CA, making BBC/Electron hardware projects for fun.
Most interesting: Arcflash, FX2+PiTubeDirect Tube/Cartridge adapter, USB cart interface.

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hoglet
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Re: Simple Electon MMC Interface

Post by hoglet » Sat Mar 18, 2017 6:42 am

We did consider trying to drive the SD Card off the other output pins, but there just isn't sufficient current.
myelin wrote: Looks like +5V comes out on pin 1:
That's a good spot.

Do you have a link to the full Plus One schematic?
Edit: Found this, see below...

I've been working from Phill's re-drawn schematic:
download/file.php?id=1615
which I think incorrectly shows only -5V being available on the Analogue port.

So yes, this would be a good option for people who don't want to mod.

Dave
Last edited by hoglet on Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Simple Electon MMC Interface

Post by DigitalDunc » Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:24 am

sydney wrote:=D> =D> =D>
Fantastic work Dave
Might have to get an elk now.
I have a few spare Elks and if you want one FOC just let me know.

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hoglet
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Re: Simple Electon MMC Interface

Post by hoglet » Sat Mar 18, 2017 7:31 am

hoglet wrote: Do you have a link to the full Plus One schematic?
I found a high quality copy of the original Acorn Plus One schematic here:
viewtopic.php?t=10413#p125767
Thanks to Steve Bagley for scanning this.

Dave

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Re: Simple Electon MMC Interface

Post by paulb » Sat Mar 18, 2017 12:07 pm

hoglet wrote:
hoglet wrote: Do you have a link to the full Plus One schematic?
I found a high quality copy of the original Acorn Plus One schematic here:
viewtopic.php?t=10413#p125767
Thanks to Steve Bagley for scanning this.
Yes, that is so much clearer than the one I was using. Thanks to Steve from me, too!

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hoglet
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Re: Simple Electon MMC Interface

Post by hoglet » Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:40 am

Hi Guys,

Here's an updated version of MMFS that fixes a bug in SAVE with the Electron Plus One:
https://github.com/hoglet67/MMFS/releases

From now on I'm going to be using github as a repository for MMFS releases, rather than attaching them to forum threads.

Dave

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Re: Simple Electon MMC Interface

Post by CMcDougall » Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:54 am

^ not noticed that bug yet, as was wiring one up yesterday, but then my Dryer has now decided not to go hot :evil:

found the .zip so that's easy, cheers =D>
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TheCorfiot
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Re: Simple Electon MMC Interface

Post by TheCorfiot » Sun Mar 19, 2017 4:00 pm

Awesome !!!!!

Any Chance of a close up photo of the coloured wires going to the 20Pin IDC connector on your MMC Interface please, save having to decode The SD signals to User Port Pins...

Thanks Dave :)

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hoglet
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Re: Simple Electon MMC Interface

Post by hoglet » Sun Mar 19, 2017 4:09 pm

TheCorfiot wrote:Any Chance of a close up photo of the coloured wires going to the 20Pin IDC connector on your MMC Interface please, save having to decode The SD signals to User Port Pins...
A picture won't actually help, as the IDC connector is not configured for a Beeb (it's the BeebFPGA one).

Just follow this and you should be OK:

Code: Select all

Electron      SD Card
   2 GND ===> GND   (Black)
   3 PD0 ===> MOSI  (Grey)
   5 PD1 ===> SCLK  (White)
  10 GND ===> CS    (Blue)
  19 ACK <=== MISO  (Purple)
  26 +5V ===> +5V   (Red)

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sirmorris
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Re: Simple Electon MMC Interface

Post by sirmorris » Sun Mar 19, 2017 4:58 pm

I've inherited a Slogger Rombox+. I have to admit that I've never really done any more with it than marvel at the special plastic and its yellowness. Would it happen to be register level compatible with the plus1?

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Re: Simple Electon MMC Interface

Post by danielj » Sun Mar 19, 2017 5:15 pm

Should be!

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Re: Simple Electon MMC Interface

Post by TheCorfiot » Sun Mar 19, 2017 10:22 pm

This works very well indeed, very simple but effective hookup :)

If anyone plans to use SirMorris MMC boards then you can ignore hooking up the blue wire as CS is tied low already on the board

:)

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Re: Simple Electon MMC Interface

Post by CMcDougall » Mon Mar 20, 2017 5:27 pm

just gave this a go, & =D> =D> =D>

notes:
My 5x eeproms are fine, but this does not work with DaveH's brilliant ATI/ABR cart :?
Does work with the Pegasus Slogger E00 DFS :)
Attachments
elkMMCplus1printer.jpg
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hoglet
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Re: Simple Electon MMC Interface

Post by hoglet » Mon Mar 20, 2017 6:49 pm

CMcDougall wrote: My 5x eeproms are fine, but this does not work with DaveH's brilliant ATI/ABR cart :?
Col, can you say in what way it doesn't work with the ATI/ABR? Card? error, or some kind of crash before that?

Which flavour MMFS were you using, and how/where was it installed?

DaveH, is there a final schematic for the ATI/ABR posted somewhere? I checked the thread, and there does't seem to be one for the "Issue 2" with the GAL:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=558

Dave

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