BBC B's rolling picture

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Commie_User
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BBC B's rolling picture

Post by Commie_User » Thu Nov 03, 2016 8:13 pm

I'm getting a bit of this on some games at the moment..
DSC00104.JPG
(Electron)
DSC00107.JPG
DSC00105.JPG
MOUSE TRAP (Electron)

The first picture's static while the second and third rolls. The first game was alright when it loaded, the second had only the loading screen OK. Other games have been fine. My board's a number 7.

Is it knackering? I don't think I'm too close to the radiator with it or anything.

God, I hope it's not the CUB. And it shouldn't be my new joystick extension? It's unplugged again but the problem's still there. I only got it today. I only got this today.

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danielj
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Re: BBC B's rolling picture

Post by danielj » Thu Nov 03, 2016 8:24 pm

You're loading electron games on a BBC again. Stop being silly. [-X

d.

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Re: BBC B's rolling picture

Post by Commie_User » Thu Nov 03, 2016 8:26 pm

Honestly, I'm not! I've never seen this before!

:-s

I've loaded stacks of Electron games into my Beeb in the past, with only that Starship thing not loading back in February. But thanks for this 'reassurance'!

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Re: BBC B's rolling picture

Post by danielj » Thu Nov 03, 2016 9:25 pm

If you want to diagnose the problem, you're going to have to do it with beeb software - using software not designed for the machine isn't going to tell you anything. If it's not doing it with beeb software there's no problem.

d.

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Re: BBC B's rolling picture

Post by tricky » Thu Nov 03, 2016 9:27 pm

Just another data point.
I have a CRT that rolls vertically with carnival, but not with the same crtc settings but a different image.
I also have two that lose horizontal sync with carnival, but are fine if i increase the horizontal sync pulse width, again they are fine with a different image, but same settings.

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Re: BBC B's rolling picture

Post by Commie_User » Thu Nov 03, 2016 9:53 pm

Thanks. I wouldn't really want to open my Cub though. And I haven't seen the problem on a Beeb game yet.

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Re: BBC B's rolling picture

Post by danielj » Thu Nov 03, 2016 9:59 pm

Then I respectfully suggest, as you probably guessed having specifically mentioned you were using elk versions, that there's nothing wrong :D

d.

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Re: BBC B's rolling picture

Post by Commie_User » Thu Nov 03, 2016 10:07 pm

Lovely. It just looked to all the world that something was actually faulty. Usually something just doesn't work.

I had no idea this was a thing. What causes it? Screen modes and commands are common, surely?

I wonder what other traps can snare my unwary brain. No killer pokes, I hope.

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Re: BBC B's rolling picture

Post by danielj » Thu Nov 03, 2016 10:12 pm

The video hardware in the BBC and elk is completely different and hence whilst both can be pushed to do clever "out of spec" things, what they can do and how they can do them is different.

d.

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Re: BBC B's rolling picture

Post by Commie_User » Fri Nov 04, 2016 12:16 am

Oh. Well, more than meets the eye, then.

Can the Electron do anything that beats the Beeb, rather than something different?

I kind-of want an excuse to get one!

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Re: BBC B's rolling picture

Post by Pernod » Fri Nov 04, 2016 2:04 am

Commie_User wrote:Can the Electron do anything that beats the Beeb, rather than something different?
It takes up less space, if you don't expand it :roll:
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Re: BBC B's rolling picture

Post by danielj » Fri Nov 04, 2016 7:20 am

Pernod wrote: It takes up less space, if you don't expand it :roll:
:lol:

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Re: BBC B's rolling picture

Post by sydney » Fri Nov 04, 2016 7:37 am

It can run electron software perfectly.

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Re: BBC B's rolling picture

Post by 1024MAK » Fri Nov 04, 2016 7:44 am

The Electron has an expansion connector allowing access to almost all of the 6502's address, data and control lines :D. The best the BBC B can do, is a subset called the 1 MHz bus.

The DRAM chips in the Electron are typically slightly more reliable than the DRAM chips used in the BBC A & B :D.

The Electron does NOT have the infamous smelly and smokey power supply capacitors...

The Electron uses less electricity, so is more environmently friendly :D.

You can power the Electron from a battery without any internal modifications.

Some games were released only for the Electron (they were not originally released for the BBC B, and some don't work on the BBC B).

That enough reasons? :?:

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Re: BBC B's rolling picture

Post by trixster » Fri Nov 04, 2016 4:38 pm

Commie_User wrote:Oh. Well, more than meets the eye, then.

Can the Electron do anything that beats the Beeb, rather than something different?

I kind-of want an excuse to get one!
Why are you obsessed with things beating other things, or being better than something else?
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Re: BBC B's rolling picture

Post by george.h » Fri Nov 04, 2016 6:06 pm

Commie_User wrote:Oh. Well, more than meets the eye, then.

Can the Electron do anything that beats the Beeb, rather than something different?

I kind-of want an excuse to get one!
It beats the Beeb as a source of spare keyboard switches for the Beeb (I'll get some stick for that comment! :lol: ) - depending on which switch type your Beeb has..
Commie_User wrote:Thanks. I wouldn't really want to open my Cub though.
If you have no experience working on the innards of CRT based displays then you REALLY don't want to open it up!
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Re: BBC B's rolling picture

Post by JonC » Fri Nov 04, 2016 6:30 pm

sydney wrote:It can run electron software perfectly.
The most underrated post in this thread! Where's the 'like' button when you need it. :lol:
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Re: BBC B's rolling picture

Post by JonC » Fri Nov 04, 2016 6:32 pm

george.h wrote:
It beats the Beeb as a source of spare keyboard switches for the Beeb (I'll get some stick for that comment! :lol: ) - depending on which switch type your Beeb has..
Shouldn't that be;
"It can use Master keyswitches as spares if needed, whereas most beebs can't"?
:lol:
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Re: BBC B's rolling picture

Post by Commie_User » Fri Nov 04, 2016 6:54 pm

trixster wrote:
Why are you obsessed with things beating other things, or being better than something else?
I'm not sure I understand the question. If people didn't think like that, we may all have settled with the Apple II or the Atom. (Though I see how the Apple 2 was the US equivalent of the BBC in many ways and was a great little machine.)

I've always been amazed at how much contemporary-looking multimedia you can get from the 8-bits, when people push them. Though please don't think this means I'm denigrating certain machines or eras. Else I wouldn't be here!

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Re: BBC B's rolling picture

Post by Commie_User » Fri Nov 04, 2016 6:57 pm

1024MAK wrote: That enough reasons? :?:

Mark

Yes and no, I'm afraid. They were, until 25 minutes ago when I did my Tchaikovsky thing (see General). But now I want to stick with the Beeb and spruce that up. And I've just had an Atari 2600 delivered, which is handy as it saves looking for the other one.

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Re: BBC B's rolling picture

Post by CMcDougall » Fri Nov 04, 2016 7:32 pm

Commie_User wrote:Can the Electron do anything that beats the Beeb, rather than something different?
Spaceman Sid by english software, the elk version of the game is better than beeb, but that's all I've found.

Gauntlet by Micro Power is also elk only, I changed it BITD (*TVx taken out in loader) to work on my beeb, and much better than Defender /Planetoid 8)

but, you need to get one, and throw all that other rubbish out the window! =D>
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Re: BBC B's rolling picture

Post by Commie_User » Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:14 pm

OK, it's not the woodgrain version but that still doesn't make it rubbish!

At least the Atari had woodgrain!

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Re: BBC B's rolling picture

Post by Kecske Bak » Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:21 pm

The Acorn Electron version of Frak! is better than the BBC Micro version - more levels, more options, a designer and most important of all perfect collision detection.

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Re: BBC B's rolling picture

Post by Commie_User » Fri Nov 04, 2016 8:57 pm

And like Blitzkrieg, Frak for the Electron's all green! That's some true olde-worlde computing there!

But I think this is as good as it gets - software which beats a BBC version, rather than evidence the Electron itself can best it. Most Elk games I know still run on a BBC, like Frak. I know on the face of it I was asking too much but you never know your glitches.

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Re: BBC B's rolling picture

Post by 1024MAK » Fri Nov 04, 2016 9:17 pm

Commie_User wrote:OK, it's not the woodgrain version but that still doesn't make it rubbish!

At least the Atari had woodgrain!
My mum's old radiogram "case" was completely made of wood. I say case, but it's currently being used as a computer table, me having ripped out the unwanted electrics years ago after the motor failed. But I would rather have a Beeb than an Atari 2600.

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Re: BBC B's rolling picture

Post by Commie_User » Fri Nov 04, 2016 9:36 pm

Ooo, what does that look like? Is it one of those flip-tops?

Well why scrimp by not having both machines? In this day and age, a home classics arcade wouldn't be worthy of the name without at least Yars' Revenge, Asteroids, the original crappy versions of Space Invaders and Pacman; not to mention Solaris, HERO, Pheonix, Star Wars, Chopper Command, Atlantis and so so many other classics to name.

The Beeb often looks very schoolish compared to sexy little cartridge games.

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