Dunjunz versions (renamed thread for accuracy!)

discuss both original and modern hardware for the bbc micro/electron
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lurkio
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Re: Dunjunz versions (renamed thread for accuracy!)

Post by lurkio »

richardtoohey wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 8:26 pm
I've just tried that version in b-em ... with 8271/DFS 0.9 and 1770/DFS 2.26 and it seems to work with both ... emulating the basic B ... Also tried that version in beebem with DFS 1.2 and it seems to work there, too
Level 1 will work, but Level 2 won't load. (Or Level 2 will load but then freeze up.)

Disable all characters except the Fighter (controlled with G,B,U,I) and navigate to the far southeastern corner of the map on Level 1 in order to go to Level 2.

:!:
Last edited by lurkio on Fri Dec 28, 2018 9:23 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: Dunjunz versions (renamed thread for accuracy!)

Post by richardtoohey »

I'll give that a go.

Got a BBC B (no SRAM) with MMC on it, and tried the Dunjunz on there and it hangs before the game starts. But then the machine starting hanging when doing nothing so that ended up being a diversion of unscrewing, pushing ROMs in etc. :roll: Noticed PAGE at &1B00 on the machine (if that's relevant).

Emulator might be easier ... :D
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Re: Dunjunz versions (renamed thread for accuracy!)

Post by richardtoohey »

Getting the same as billcarr2005 ... (so this is ignoring SWRAM, and using the BBC B version ... which I had BITD but can't find anywhere!)

DFS 0.9 - easy to get onto the second level, it works
DFS 1.2 - gives Bad command and hangs

I've got so far as finding that it is a FFF7 request for *DISC that is where the Bad command comes from.

Wondering if Dunjunz tramples on some workspace that DFS 0.9 doesn't care about ... but DFS 1.2 does care about. So any * command for DFS 1.2 will fail.

PAGE at &1900 for both DFS versions, so may be some other workspace. Does DFS 1.2 allow &1100 up to be trampled?

I'll keep going a bit longer but as billcarr2005 said ... might be easier to label DFS/version requirements for more-than-one SSD rather than trying to code a one-version-works-for-all-machines SSD.

Dunjunz-tape UEF

Dunjunz-BBC-B-DFS-0.9-NO-SWRAM SSD

... and so on.
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Re: Dunjunz versions (renamed thread for accuracy!)

Post by richardtoohey »

To go back to the original question:
brooksoid wrote:
Sun Dec 23, 2018 10:03 am
Q1) Has anyone got a guide to how I get some games - Dunjunz in particular - to work from Super MMC?
You can get level 1 loading if you change a *DISC to a *CARD.

So

Code: Select all

*CARD
*DIN 88
*LOAD DUNJUNZ
$&28A4="CARD"
CALL &2700
This is a one-time-only change of an internal *DISC command to a *CARD command - so it enables the game to load on a real BBC with MMC and no sideways RAM. I tried a machine with DFS 2.26.

As soon as you finish level 1, though, you'll hit the "Bad command" problem that is also in this thread.
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Re: Dunjunz versions (renamed thread for accuracy!)

Post by CMcDougall »

better to change to " " (4 spaces) so works on any FS 8)
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Re: Dunjunz versions (renamed thread for accuracy!)

Post by lurkio »

richardtoohey wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 1:59 am
Getting the same as billcarr2005 ... (so this is ignoring SWRAM, and using the BBC B version ... which I had BITD but can't find anywhere!)

DFS 0.9 - easy to get onto the second level, it works
DFS 1.2 - gives Bad command and hangs

I've got so far as finding that it is a FFF7 request for *DISC that is where the Bad command comes from.

Wondering if Dunjunz tramples on some workspace that DFS 0.9 doesn't care about ... but DFS 1.2 does care about. So any * command for DFS 1.2 will fail.

PAGE at &1900 for both DFS versions, so may be some other workspace. Does DFS 1.2 allow &1100 up to be trampled?
Intriguing! Not really sure what's happening...

Hex-editing the .SSD of the non-SWRAM version of Dunjunz for Model B, I replaced the string "DISC" (at offset &BF20 in the .SSD file) with the string "BAS." just for the hell of it. Then loaded the edited .SSD into BeebEm with DFS 1.2.

After Level 1, the game now goes to the BASIC prompt but screen-printing keeps freezing. You have to press Escape to get the output of commands to complete! Here's what you (eventually) get if you do *HELP — no wonder you can't switch to DISC!:

1.png

Here's what you get with the same edited .SSD but using DFS 0.9 instead:

2.png

Looks like Dunjunz is somehow killing DFS 1.2, but DFS 0.9 somehow escapes the cull!? (Btw, regardless of which DFS you've installed, other (non-DFS) ROMs are killed too.)

:?:
Last edited by lurkio on Sun Jan 06, 2019 10:03 pm, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: Dunjunz versions (renamed thread for accuracy!)

Post by BeebMaster »

I just tried this, it is very odd. On Station 128, which has DNFS 3.00 (DFS 1.20), ANFS 4.18, ADFS 1.33 and ADT 2.00, I can't get to level 2. I had to *UNPLUG a few ROMs to get it to work at all first. Then I get Bad command without any disc access, and you can't get out of it without powering off. The computer appears to reset, because I see the "white flash" screen you get when changing from a graphics mode to mode 7 after pressing BREAK, and CTRL-BREAK generates the VDU7 bleep, so I would say it is getting at least as far as printing the start-up banner, then it's going to mode 2 and printing "Bad command". So maybe something has corrupted how DFS 1.20 accesses its service calls? I don't know if service entry points are vectored, maybe the vectors are corrupted?

With DFS 0.90 loaded into SRAM, higher than DFS 1.20, level 2 loads no problem.

Another thought - DFS 0.90 is 8K, as is DFS 1.20 (roughly), but DFS 1.20 is usually in the upper half of a 16K image shared with NFS 3.60 whereas DFS 0.90 will be in the lower half of a 16K ROM bank. So perhaps the game causes some jump which doesn't do any harm with DFS 0.90 as the area in the memory map would be "blank" (or a duplicate of the lower half) but is going into the DFS 1.20 code at a point which mucks things up? Or even it's going to the same point but with DNFS present, it's actually jumping into Econet code?

The Advanced Disc User Guide has a one-page summary of differences between DFS 0.90 and 1.20 in the final appendix at the back, but it doesn't really go into technical details of workspace etc.

If Dunjunz was written in 1987 surely by then DFS 1.20 would have been in common usage? Seems a bit lackadaisical that it wasn't tested with such a setup.
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Re: Dunjunz versions (renamed thread for accuracy!)

Post by BeebMaster »

lurkio wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 3:11 pm

After Level 1, the game now goes to the BASIC prompt but screen-printing keeps freezing. You have to press Escape to get the output of commands to complete! Here's what you (eventually) get if you do *HELP — no wonder you can't switch to DISC!:
Are the CAPS LOCK and SHIFT LOCK lights on when it stops? That sounds like the printer has been enabled, and the buffer is full.
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Re: Dunjunz versions (renamed thread for accuracy!)

Post by lurkio »

BeebMaster wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 8:36 pm
lurkio wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 3:11 pm
After Level 1, the game now goes to the BASIC prompt but screen-printing keeps freezing. You have to press Escape to get the output of commands to complete! Here's what you (eventually) get if you do *HELP — no wonder you can't switch to DISC!: ...
Are the CAPS LOCK and SHIFT LOCK lights on when it stops? That sounds like the printer has been enabled, and the buffer is full.
Well spotted! Yes, that was it. If VDU 3 is the first thing you type in after you complete Level 1 and the game has jumped to the BASIC prompt, then you will be able to type and enter further commands (like *HELP, etc.) as normal! So that suggests that the printer had indeed been switched on somehow!

I also just tried loading a second, different DFS ROM into a lower ROM slot, in addition to my usual DFS 1.20, which is in slot 14 — but both DFSes were disabled after the game had jumped to the BASIC prompt! The only DFS that survived the jump (as the "second DFS" in a low-numbered slot) was — you guessed it — DFS 0.90!

What is it about DFS 0.90 that enables it to survive the machinations of Dunjunz?! And what exactly are those machinations? How and why does Dunjunz manage to kill off all known DFSes except DFS 0.90?!

:?: ](*,)


EDIT: Here's the hacked version of non-SWRAM Model B Dunjunz that I've been testing with. Disable all characters except the Fighter (who can be controlled with G,B,U,I), and then go to the far southeastern corner of the map (the bottom right-hand corner) to complete Level 1:

DEBUG-DunjunzB.ssd
(197.5 KiB) Downloaded 1 time

Boot in JSBeeb with DFS 1.20

Boot in JSBeeb with DFS 0.90

:idea:
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Re: "Super MMC" & Dunjunz/Magic Mushrooms fail

Post by duikkie »

lurkio wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 8:18 pm
richardtoohey wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 8:11 pm
I've not looked too hard at this, but is the issue the SWRAM, MMC, etc., etc. or the DFS version? The common "thing" where it works seems to be DFS 0.9x? So is the fix to find out why it doesn't work on DFS 1.2?

The Model B version of Dunjunz that I attached to a previous post (which is derived from an official release archived at STH) doesn't need any SWRAM to run, but it will only run on DFS 0.9. It would be great if this version could be hacked to make it run on any filesystem -- DFS 1.2, MMFS, RamFS, etc.

:idea:
is there a working version now for all levels on sd card/ smart-spi for beeb b without SWRAM if not maybe i can look, if i have the time. i am not a game player so i never pass level1 :( ( the bbc micro is not for playing games , it is a learning computer :shock: )
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Re: "Super MMC" & Dunjunz/Magic Mushrooms fail

Post by lurkio »

duikkie wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 6:49 am
lurkio wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 8:18 pm
The Model B version of Dunjunz that I attached to a previous post ... doesn't need any SWRAM to run, but it will only run on DFS 0.9. It would be great if this version could be hacked to make it run on any filesystem -- DFS 1.2, MMFS, RamFS, etc.
is there a working version now for all levels on sd card/ smart-spi for beeb b without SWRAM
No. There isn't. :(

duikkie wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 6:49 am
if not maybe i can look, if i have the time.
Please look! You can use the version I linked to previously. Same link here:

download/file.php?id=42697

duikkie wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 6:49 am
i am not a game player so i never pass level1
To pass Level 1, you must go down and right. Always down and right. Use only the Fighter. (Keys: G,B,U,I.) Switch off all the other characters. Then play. Go down and right. Down and right... (South-east, south-east...)

:idea:
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Re: "Super MMC" & Dunjunz/Magic Mushrooms fail

Post by duikkie »

lurkio wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 10:03 am
duikkie wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 6:49 am
lurkio wrote:
Fri Dec 28, 2018 8:18 pm
The Model B version of Dunjunz that I attached to a previous post ... doesn't need any SWRAM to run, but it will only run on DFS 0.9. It would be great if this version could be hacked to make it run on any filesystem -- DFS 1.2, MMFS, RamFS, etc.
is there a working version now for all levels on sd card/ smart-spi for beeb b without SWRAM
No. There isn't. :(

duikkie wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 6:49 am
if not maybe i can look, if i have the time.
Please look! You can use the version I linked to previously. Same link here:

download/file.php?id=42697

duikkie wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 6:49 am
i am not a game player so i never pass level1
To pass Level 1, you must go down and right. Always down and right. Use only the Fighter. (Keys: G,B,U,I.) Switch off all the other characters. Then play. Go down and right. Down and right... (South-east, south-east...)

:idea:
there is really something wrong with the disc version , i hope that i have the org. disc for bbc b , but i can't see how it may work it destroys the &D00 area, so are the people sure that the disc version is working ??? it looks like it is a TAPE version because tape use &a00.
an other thing is file DUN1 loads at &2000 and is &6000 byte (to &8000) it is loaded with coder running at &5000 but DUN1 has the same code from &5000 as CODER so it goes further.

so i think i might look at the TAPE version maybe thats the way to go, my disc version looks not org. at all
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Re: "Super MMC" & Dunjunz/Magic Mushrooms fail

Post by lurkio »

duikkie wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 9:04 pm
there is really something wrong with the disc version , i hope that i have the org. disc for bbc b , but i can't see how it may work it destroys the &D00 area, so are the people sure that the disc version is working ???
Yes, I have tried it on a real Beeb, and it works! But you MUST use DFS 0.90.

It's the official non-SWRAM version of Dunjunz for the Model B that I mentioned earlier. Here it is online, in DFS 0.90:

http://bbcmicro.co.uk//jsbeeb/play.php? ... ssd&noseek

DFS 0.90 is very weird! But it is good for Dunjunz! Why? (I don't know.)

:idea:
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Re: "Super MMC" & Dunjunz/Magic Mushrooms fail

Post by duikkie »

lurkio wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 9:28 pm
duikkie wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 9:04 pm
there is really something wrong with the disc version , i hope that i have the org. disc for bbc b , but i can't see how it may work it destroys the &D00 area, so are the people sure that the disc version is working ???
Yes, I have tried it on a real Beeb, and it works! But you MUST use DFS 0.90.

It's the official non-SWRAM version of Dunjunz for the Model B that I mentioned earlier. Here it is online, in DFS 0.90:

http://bbcmicro.co.uk//jsbeeb/play.php? ... ssd&noseek

DFS 0.90 is very weird! But it is good for Dunjunz! Why? (I don't know.)

:idea:
you can see that is not as it was build i hope , when loading the game you see things on screen , that is mostly because the game is to high in memory and must be downloaded to play.
is there a tape version ??
if this is org by the builder of the game , it is bad programming. but i think it was for TAPE and because then there was DISC upgrade
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Re: Dunjunz versions (renamed thread for accuracy!)

Post by duikkie »

richardtoohey wrote:
Sat Dec 29, 2018 4:17 am
To go back to the original question:
brooksoid wrote:
Sun Dec 23, 2018 10:03 am
Q1) Has anyone got a guide to how I get some games - Dunjunz in particular - to work from Super MMC?
You can get level 1 loading if you change a *DISC to a *CARD.

So

Code: Select all

*CARD
*DIN 88
*LOAD DUNJUNZ
$&28A4="CARD"
CALL &2700
This is a one-time-only change of an internal *DISC command to a *CARD command - so it enables the game to load on a real BBC with MMC and no sideways RAM. I tried a machine with DFS 2.26.

As soon as you finish level 1, though, you'll hit the "Bad command" problem that is also in this thread.
there is more then 1 time of *disc command not only in the dunjunz file :) but there are more problems
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Re: "Super MMC" & Dunjunz/Magic Mushrooms fail

Post by lurkio »

duikkie wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 10:28 pm
you can see that is not as it was build i hope ... if this is org by the builder of the game , it is bad programming.
It is the original disc. BillCarr has got it.

:idea:
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Re: "Super MMC" & Dunjunz/Magic Mushrooms fail

Post by duikkie »

lurkio wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 2:42 am
duikkie wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 10:28 pm
you can see that is not as it was build i hope ... if this is org by the builder of the game , it is bad programming.
It is the original disc. BillCarr has got it.

:idea:
it is a shame !!! bad programming , but you can write that it is a sort of protection , what i think is that you CAN NOT change the order of files on the disc , then the disc will not work.
I will look at it, it will not be org. because i find it bad programming loading programs over running programs and go further if nothing has happened

but THERE is no TAPE VERSION ??
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Re: "Super MMC" & Dunjunz/Magic Mushrooms fail

Post by lurkio »

duikkie wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 4:54 am
but THERE is no TAPE VERSION ??
viewtopic.php?hilit=tape&p=223370#p223370

:arrow:
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Re: "Super MMC" & Dunjunz/Magic Mushrooms fail

Post by duikkie »

lurkio wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 10:20 am
duikkie wrote:
Thu May 06, 2021 4:54 am
but THERE is no TAPE VERSION ??
viewtopic.php?hilit=tape&p=223370#p223370

:arrow:
found it , a lot is lost in the disc version, someones face and other info
i will look what terrible things is done to make disc version :shock:
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Re: Dunjunz versions (renamed thread for accuracy!)

Post by duikkie »

if you look at the tape version you understand why it is not working , the intro file tell you why :)
it is made for bbc b only. later it changed for other machines , but not sure if the programmer has done that

so the problem is that it is a tape game , destroys the &d00 to &1100 area, so a next level can not load
you have to save your &d00 to &1100 , play the game , go to next level save the &d00--&1100 aera again , restore de saved &d00-^&1100 with
disc info load next level , restore second saved area to &d00 and play.

that why order dfs and so will not work &d00 is i think for version dfs 0.9 and is different then dfs xx.xx
i allso think you get in touble if you remove a level and then *compact the disc so that files get other tracks #-o
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Re: Dunjunz versions (renamed thread for accuracy!)

Post by duikkie »

maybe the disc version will work with SMART-SPI if you have replace all the *disc in all files with * "" , because smart-spi is dfs0.9 #-o
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Re: Dunjunz versions (renamed thread for accuracy!)

Post by BeebMaster »

I found that when stuck in the Bad command loop, which needs a power off to escape, if I switch on the 6502 cheese wedge, pressing BREAK gives me the Bad command error but then I get a supervisor prompt. *HELP shows only 6502 Tube and OS, so it's disabled DFS, NFS, ANFS, ADFS and ADT! *BASIC works.
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Re: Dunjunz versions (renamed thread for accuracy!)

Post by lurkio »

BeebMaster wrote:
Sun May 09, 2021 4:09 pm
I found that when stuck in the Bad command loop, which needs a power off to escape, if I switch on the 6502 cheese wedge, pressing BREAK gives me the Bad command error but then I get a supervisor prompt. *HELP shows only 6502 Tube and OS, so it's disabled DFS, NFS, ANFS, ADFS and ADT! *BASIC works.
Dunjunz. Kills 99% of all known ROMs — dead!

:shock:
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Re: Dunjunz versions (renamed thread for accuracy!)

Post by BeebMaster »

Perhaps a good job that this has only been discovered now, we could have had Trump making us all inject ground-up floppy discs into ourselves!
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Re: Dunjunz versions (renamed thread for accuracy!)

Post by duikkie »

there are a lot of *fx200,3 commands too, so normaly it will restore everything when hitting break

but the problem is this sort of games are 6502 based , they distroy everying in memory what is not needed
when running allso basic is gone , because workaear &400 is used :wink:
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Re: Dunjunz versions (renamed thread for accuracy!)

Post by duikkie »

maybe this works ?

nothing done only ALL *disc commands in *spacespacespacespace

still terrible programming
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Re: Dunjunz versions (renamed thread for accuracy!)

Post by lurkio »

duikkie wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 7:49 pm
maybe this works ? nothing done only ALL *disc commands in *spacespacespacespace
Doesn't work on a Model B with DFS 1.20 (in BeebEm): after you complete Level 1, the screen clears and then you see "Searching", and the tape relay clicks!

:!:

EDIT: Same with DFS 0.90.

:!:
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Re: Dunjunz versions (renamed thread for accuracy!)

Post by duikkie »

try this with smart-spi
it use *card and smart-spi is diffent with *card

they use *disc to repare the &d00 place
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Re: Dunjunz versions (renamed thread for accuracy!)

Post by lurkio »

duikkie wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 8:44 pm
try this with smart-spi
it use *card and smart-spi is diffent with *card
Can you give me a link to the best version of Smart-SPI, please?

:?:
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Re: Dunjunz versions (renamed thread for accuracy!)

Post by duikkie »

lurkio wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 9:03 pm
duikkie wrote:
Mon May 10, 2021 8:44 pm
try this with smart-spi
it use *card and smart-spi is diffent with *card
Can you give me a link to the best version of Smart-SPI, please?

:?:
that is long ago :) , but that is not the way to go
i will turn back to the tape version. i solf the problem
with the &d00 --- &1100 thing
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