AP6 ROM update issues

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KenLowe
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Re: AP6 ROM update issues

Post by KenLowe » Wed Jan 02, 2019 2:31 pm

daveejhitchins wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 2:10 pm
And I've gone through the following procedure and can pronounce it works just fine . . . With one caveat!

When I first tried, it failed in a similar way Richard was seeing. It turned out that I had one of the 28C256 parts that was 'locked' and wouldn't respond to unlocking using MartinB's UNLOCK utility.
This is still on my list to look at. Unfortunately, other priorities got in the way since we discussed this last, but I'll try and get back to it in the next couple of weeks. As mentioned previously, I don't have the hardware to test this on, so will be relying on others to test for me.
Last edited by KenLowe on Wed Jan 02, 2019 2:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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rmbrowngr
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Re: AP6 ROM update issues

Post by rmbrowngr » Sat Jan 05, 2019 2:02 pm

Had the same problem with an EEPROM in the socket for 13&15. Using the same approach with the EEPROM in the socket for 5&6 e.g. *EEP32 unlock DF twice unlocked it.
Richard B
Acorn Electron issue 6 with Master RAM Board, Elk2GoSDC and GoSDC.
Acorn Electron issue 4 with Acorn Plus 1, AP6, AP5, Pegasus 400, BeebSCSI, Gotek, Raspberry Pi 2nd Processor.
BBC B+ 64K.

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jms2
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Re: AP6 ROM update issues

Post by jms2 » Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:09 pm

I have at last got round to updating mine to v1.31. The actual process worked fine, I didn't have any issues with EELOAD. Now *HELP and *ROMS report version 1.31. However there are a couple of things that I've noticed which I think are not exactly bugs as such, but worthy of comment:

1) Whilst *HELP reports v1.31, *HELP +1, *HELP UTILS and *HELP SRAM all report v.1.30a. I think this is a straightforward typo and not really a problem.

2) I have VIEW in rom 15, and when I boot the machine it comes up in View by default. I think this is how rom priority is supposed to work, as View is higher up than BASIC. However, putting View into that high slot is actually a mistake on my part. When I had version 1.30 installed, View was still in rom 15 but did not start up by default. Another aspect that I don't understand is that *ROMS shows the asterisk marker next to BASIC as the default language (even when I'm actually in View). This doesn't make sense to me: surely if View is in the highest slot then it must be the default language by definition (in the absence of *Configure options on the Electron).

To fix the language issue I can simply move View somewhere else (or get rid of it completely). But I thought I would point out that the behaviour has changed in moving from v1.30 to v1.31 just in case it was unintentional.
Last edited by jms2 on Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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jgharston
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Re: AP6 ROM update issues

Post by jgharston » Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:09 pm

With the Plus1 the language ROM priority is changed so instead of 15-0 it becomes 11-0, 15-12. So, if View is in ROM 15 it should have a lower default priority than BASIC in ROM 11. The language priority processing shouldn't have changed from 1.30 to 1.31, I'll have a look at it. My knees have stopped hurting for a bit. ;)
(There's a test build of ROM Manager 1.32 here, but the Plus1 Support is unchanged at 1.31 - and I've just downloaded and checked, and the v1.31 ROMs are 1.31/1.31a all the way through. Dunno how you've got a 1.30a+1.31 ROM.)

Code: Select all

$ bbcbasic
PDP11 BBC BASIC IV Version 0.25
(C) Copyright J.G.Harston 1989,2005-2015
>_

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jgharston
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Re: AP6 ROM update issues

Post by jgharston » Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:17 pm

jgharston wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:09 pm
With the Plus1 the language ROM priority is changed so instead of 15-0 it becomes 11-0, 15-12.
To clarify, with the Plus1/AP6 present, the following is how language priority should work:

On Power-On, the priority is: next below AP6 Support ROM down to 0, then 15 down to AP6 Support ROM.

After *LANG <num> the priority is: <num>, next below AP6 Support ROM down to 0, then 15 down to AP6 Support ROM,
unless <num> is unplugged, then the priority is: next below AP6 Support ROM down to 0, then 15 down to AP6 Support ROM.

After *LANG <cr> the priority is: next below AP6 Support ROM down to 0, then 15 down to AP6 Support ROM.

Code: Select all

$ bbcbasic
PDP11 BBC BASIC IV Version 0.25
(C) Copyright J.G.Harston 1989,2005-2015
>_

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jms2
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Re: AP6 ROM update issues

Post by jms2 » Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:06 pm

jgharston wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:09 pm
The v1.31 ROMs are 1.31/1.31a all the way through. Dunno how you've got a 1.30a+1.31 ROM.)
I see what you mean - I have just looked through the file I downloaded (on the PC) and its 1.31 throughout. I can only assume, therefore, that the EELOAD process was only partly successful and has written an early part of the rom but not the later part.

This might also explain the odd behaviour. I'll try again.

EDIT: Looking at one of Martin's videos, the "Verifying..." and "Finished" messages did not display. So it definitely didn't work. I will have another go. What I failed to do was *Unplug the AP6 rom before programming it, so this was almost certainly the cause of the problem.
Last edited by jms2 on Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:11 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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MartinB
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Re: AP6 ROM update issues

Post by MartinB » Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:37 pm

John wrote:What I failed to do was *Unplug the AP6 rom before programming it, so this was almost certainly the cause of the problem.
Yes, re-programming ‘live’ roms with EELOAD (or indeed any SWR utility) rarely ends well and you’ll often see the process start but soon after, the machine crashes and/or bombs out of the programming. *UNPLUG is favourite to kill a rom for programming if a given machine supports it (by default only a Master but also on an AP6 Electron) so I did provide a rom ‘OFF’ switch for *EEP16 & *EEP32 which emulates *UNPLUG and also turns off the 100Hz poll because that too can upset rom reprogramming.

Anyway, as you saw in the video, the full EELOAD dialogue should be as per the example below without the ‘Device is RAM’ message and with the latest AP6 Checksum-32 being (I think) $0017D929....


0C655C7B-5C16-4B23-BAAA-FB8265D434B3.png
0C655C7B-5C16-4B23-BAAA-FB8265D434B3.png (31.54 KiB) Viewed 151 times
Last edited by MartinB on Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:49 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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jms2
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Re: AP6 ROM update issues

Post by jms2 » Sat Jan 12, 2019 10:55 pm

All sorted now and working perfectly once I unplugged the rom before programming it. All the anomalies described above have disappeared. Thanks!

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jgharston
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Re: AP6 ROM update issues

Post by jgharston » Sat Jan 12, 2019 11:33 pm

jgharston wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:17 pm
To clarify, with the Plus1/AP6 present, the following is how language priority should work:
I've checked the code for ye olde v1.23 and the production 1.30, the bugfix 1.31 and the development 1.32, and they all have the same functionality, very slightly different to the above. Essentially, the AP6 ROM ManagerPlus 1 Support ROM removes the concept of language priority. On Power-On or Ctrl-Break the default language is entered, as set by:

On Power-On, the default language is set to BASIC. If BASIC is absent, v1.30+ sets the default language to *prompt.

After *LANG <num> the default language is set to <num>.

After *LANG <cr> or if the default language is unplugged, this is the only case where ROM priority has any effect. Languages are looked for from the ROM below the AP6 Support ROM down to 0, then from 15 down to the AP6 Support ROM.

So, if you have:
15: VIEW
13: Plus1/AP6
12: EDIT
11: BASIC

On Power-On, BASIC will be entered, because it's BASIC.
After *LANG 15, VIEW will be entered, because it's ROM 15.
After *LANG <cr>, EDIT will be entered, because it's the highest ROM below Plus1/AP6.

I hope that makes sense. I'll check the documentation and see if anything needs tweeking.
Last edited by jgharston on Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:32 am, edited 1 time in total.

Code: Select all

$ bbcbasic
PDP11 BBC BASIC IV Version 0.25
(C) Copyright J.G.Harston 1989,2005-2015
>_

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jms2
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Re: AP6 ROM update issues

Post by jms2 » Sun Jan 13, 2019 12:54 am

That's an interesting discovery. I suppose it makes sense in the Electron context, where physically moving Basic around is tricky due to it being on the same chip as the OS and effectively hard wired into slots 10 and 11. Maybe the objective was to avoid any risk of confusion caused by the machine starting up in an unfamiliar language.

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rmbrowngr
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Re: AP6 ROM update issues

Post by rmbrowngr » Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:38 am

I saw some strange behaviour with language selection when using HiBasic and 2nd processor. I’ll see later again what happened and describe it here.

BTW, when using PiTubeDirect *tube 1 and pressing control break there a delay displaying the command prompt, or if I press break too quickly the 2nd processor is not enabled.
Richard B
Acorn Electron issue 6 with Master RAM Board, Elk2GoSDC and GoSDC.
Acorn Electron issue 4 with Acorn Plus 1, AP6, AP5, Pegasus 400, BeebSCSI, Gotek, Raspberry Pi 2nd Processor.
BBC B+ 64K.

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