FreeFi-232 v2

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danielj
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Re: FreeFi-232 v2

Post by danielj » Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:18 pm

I'm not too worried about shifting them, but they're there if anyone wants one. I've updated the firmware to issue RING and DCD signals, and it turns on DSR by default at the moment. Meanwhile the repository's been updated with the firmware, fixed schematics/PCB layouts and gerbers :)

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Elminster
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Re: FreeFi-232 v2

Post by Elminster » Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:41 pm

danielj wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:18 pm
I'm not too worried about shifting them, but they're there if anyone wants one. I've updated the firmware to issue RING and DCD signals, and it turns on DSR by default at the moment. Meanwhile the repository's been updated with the firmware, fixed schematics/PCB layouts and gerbers :)
I meant more 'If you still have some left after the people who know what they are doing have had one then I would take one', but I dont want to interfere with serioues debugging. Although I am quite good at getting stuff not to work :)

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danielj
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Re: FreeFi-232 v2

Post by danielj » Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:42 pm

Alternatively for about £7 you can get 20 that are more likely to work :D

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Elminster
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Re: FreeFi-232 v2

Post by Elminster » Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:46 pm

danielj wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:42 pm
Alternatively for about £7 you can get 20 that are more likely to work :D
Then I would have to give 19 away. Just take a shed load of unused boards for rc2014 for similar reasons.

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Re: FreeFi-232 v2

Post by danielj » Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:49 pm

Basically, I'll have some new ones in a couple of weeks, and there'll definitely be spares of those (I ended up with a stack of these as 10 is about the minimum, and it's no extra expense to turn them into mini panels with 2-each). If you're not feeling fettly then it's probably worth waiting for something verified as working without fettles.
Last edited by danielj on Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: FreeFi-232 v2

Post by danielj » Sat Jul 07, 2018 8:35 am

Just for posterity, bodging required:
DSC_3795.JPG
But we are working, complete with jumper selectable hardware flow control, thanks to hoglet :)
DSC_3798.JPG
Last edited by danielj on Sat Jul 07, 2018 8:37 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Elminster
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Re: FreeFi-232 v2

Post by Elminster » Sat Jul 07, 2018 9:31 am

Good job. You should order some beebscsi boards at the same time as the free WiFi ones.😇

As a matter of interest what is it like navigating telestar as compared to say Richard’s modern bbc basic sdl telestar interface?

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danielj
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Re: FreeFi-232 v2

Post by danielj » Sat Jul 07, 2018 9:52 am

Viewdata's viewdata - using commstar, return is #, * is * and numbers are numbers :D Added bonus is that the hardware you're using to view is authentic.

Re. beebscsis - too late I'm afraid! :D Go to jlcpcb.com, take the gerber files from the beebscsi repository, drop them onto the order form and you can have 10, or 20+ if they'll fit 2 or more to a 10x10cm panel, and you'll pay less than a tenner :)

d.

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Elminster
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Re: FreeFi-232 v2

Post by Elminster » Sat Jul 07, 2018 10:02 am

danielj wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 9:52 am
Viewdata's viewdata - using commstar, return is #, * is * and numbers are numbers :D Added bonus is that the hardware you're using to view is authentic.
What is the speed like? Is it like waiting an hour for page to download? I have the original closed source WiFi board but not had chance to test it yet.
Re. beebscsis - too late I'm afraid! :D Go to jlcpcb.com, take the gerber files from the beebscsi repository, drop them onto the order form and you can have 10, or 20+ if they'll fit 2 or more to a 10x10cm panel, and you'll pay less than a tenner :)
You are determined for me to order a million boards of something I can tell. Like I tell my wife :^o :^o (in my head) you need to think more about me and less about yourself :evil:

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Re: FreeFi-232 v2

Post by danielj » Sat Jul 07, 2018 10:13 am

Elminster wrote:
Sat Jul 07, 2018 10:02 am
What is the speed like? Is it like waiting an hour for page to download? I have the original closed source WiFi board but not had chance to test it yet.
I'm running at 2400bps, 9 bits per character (8N1) ~ 1000 characters per page = 9000bits, 9000/2400 = 3.75 seconds per page. In practice it feels faster than that, but I haven't actually timed it. It should be OK at 9600 too so less than a second per page.
You are determined for me to order a million boards of something I can tell. Like I tell my wife :^o :^o (in my head) you need to think more about me and less about yourself :evil:
Yes, yes I am :D (I have zero desire to make any more beebscsis :D)

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danielj
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Re: FreeFi-232 v2

Post by danielj » Sun Jul 08, 2018 11:01 am


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Elminster
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Re: FreeFi-232 v2

Post by Elminster » Sun Jul 08, 2018 11:20 am

danielj wrote:
Sun Jul 08, 2018 11:01 am
I did you a video :)

https://youtu.be/dRiCgVV4C8U
My own video. I have subscribes for future features.

That is 2400? Seems faster than I remember. I remember prestel over modem, might have been 1200, BITD and remember it being slower.

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Re: FreeFi-232 v2

Post by danielj » Sun Jul 08, 2018 11:25 am

It was 1200/75 BITD. 1200 down, 75 up...

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Elminster
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Re: FreeFi-232 v2

Post by Elminster » Thu Jul 12, 2018 12:48 am

So you have a 5 pin din to a 9 pin dsub. Then 9 way to 25 way dsub adaptor.

Are all 5 din pins connected this time? And is there any cross over? Assume not but had there been could have used a Sprow 5 pin din to 9 pin crossover.

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Re: FreeFi-232 v2

Post by danielj » Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:25 am

Yes, and no crossover needed as the rs232 is wired up as a modem's would be (ie DCE). You need a crossover if you connect two data terminals together (ie computers).

(and yes, all five pins are connected to give hw flow control :) )

d.
Last edited by danielj on Thu Jul 12, 2018 7:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Elminster
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Re: FreeFi-232 v2

Post by Elminster » Thu Jul 12, 2018 8:30 am

danielj wrote:
Thu Jul 12, 2018 5:25 am
Yes, and no crossover needed as the rs232 is wired up as a modem's would be (ie DCE). You need a crossover if you connect two data terminals together (ie computers).

(and yes, all five pins are connected to give hw flow control :) )

d.
I may introduce a cross over somewhere to uncross over my cross over cable (just because I really dont need another cable and I can reuse one then).

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Re: FreeFi-232 v2

Post by danielj » Thu Jul 12, 2018 9:46 am

"uncrossing" will involve a 9-pin to 9-pin, or 25-pin to 9 pin.. Ergo I'd have thought you may as well just build a straight through RS232-25pin-male to BBC 5pin and only have one cable in the chain. I'm only using a 25pin to 9pin adapter as I'd already built a straight through beeb->9pin, and I'm also intermittently dangling it off a 9pin on the PC for testing.

Uncrossing the crossover is probably the best idea!

d.
Last edited by danielj on Thu Jul 12, 2018 10:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: FreeFi-232 v2

Post by Elminster » Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:04 am

Makes little difference, you can get little cross over adaptors that just flip pins 2&3 on a 9 pin cable. So not really an issue

It is the tying RTS/CTS together that may be more of a problem or a ‘one cable does all’. Not an issue on current solution as only ground, RD & TD connect to max232, this new solution does or doesn’t tie RTS and CTS together? Or are they straight?

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danielj
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Re: FreeFi-232 v2

Post by danielj » Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:14 am

RTS/CTS will need uncrossing too. Wiring is as per:
ModemStraightDB25.gif
Edit: You can turn off hardware flow, in which case those lines are just ignored, but it does reduce reliability on the beeb end at higher speeds.
Last edited by danielj on Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:17 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: FreeFi-232 v2

Post by Elminster » Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:18 am

Great that makes it easy then.

Although I like to make things harder by breaking them first.

Edit: Are you just going leave other NC in the cable? Or tie various pins together, that the Beeb never sees anyway.
Last edited by Elminster on Thu Jul 12, 2018 11:20 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: FreeFi-232 v2

Post by Elminster » Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:02 am

Next feature request.

While playing with Lolin I added into the code a ATSCAN command. Which is basically the scan code from https://github.com/esp8266/Arduino/blob ... FiScan.ino

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Re: FreeFi-232 v2

Post by danielj » Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:12 am

Fork the repository, write the relevant code, upload it to your repository, and make a pull request? :) At which point I can pull the code in and merge it with the master source?

Re. "other NC in cable" - this looks like a modem, it's up to the end user to decide how to connect it to their computer. The only additional "input" to the modem over and above what the beeb can produce/see (TX/RX/CTS/RTS) that the modem can see is "DTR", but this is ignored in the firmware for the time being, and it will be a software configurable setting to take notice of it. All the other signals are outputs from the modem, so it doesn't matter what happens to them -> DSR, DCD and RING. The modem generates the signals, but it's up to the software on the DTE to decide whether it wants to do anything with them. As the beeb can't receive them, it doesn't matter, you just leave them disconnected.

d.

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Re: FreeFi-232 v2

Post by Elminster » Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:01 am

danielj wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:12 am
Fork the repository, write the relevant code, upload it to your repository, and make a pull request? :) At which point I can pull the code in and merge it with the master source?
Doing my hair.
Re. "other NC in cable" - this looks like a modem, it's up to the end user to decide how to connect it to their computer. The only additional "input" to the modem over and above what the beeb can produce/see (TX/RX/CTS/RTS) that the modem can see is "DTR", but this is ignored in the firmware for the time being, and it will be a software configurable setting to take notice of it. All the other signals are outputs from the modem, so it doesn't matter what happens to them -> DSR, DCD and RING. The modem generates the signals, but it's up to the software on the DTE to decide whether it wants to do anything with them. As the beeb can't receive them, it doesn't matter, you just leave them disconnected.
I should be able to get away with my current cable with a null modem adaptor on the end then. At least for the time being.

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Re: FreeFi-232 v2

Post by 1024MAK » Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:07 am

If the software can individually control the spare RS232 outputs (DCD, RING etc), they can be used as status outputs if connected to a LED via a current limiting resistor. Gotta have some Blinkenlights =D>

Mark

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Re: FreeFi-232 v2

Post by Elminster » Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:30 am

1024MAK wrote:
Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:07 am
If the software can individually control the spare RS232 outputs (DCD, RING etc), they can be used as status outputs if connected to a LED via a current limiting resistor. Gotta have some Blinkenlights =D>

Mark
If we are getting crazy instead of LEDs goto another microprocessor and get it to feed asm into the Beebsid. And get it to play the sound of a loading tape to signify internet access. And some flashing LEDs of course.

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Re: FreeFi-232 v2

Post by colonel32 » Wed Jul 18, 2018 4:54 pm

danielj wrote:
Fri Jul 06, 2018 9:49 pm
Basically, I'll have some new ones in a couple of weeks, and there'll definitely be spares of those (I ended up with a stack of these as 10 is about the minimum, and it's no extra expense to turn them into mini panels with 2-each). If you're not feeling fettly then it's probably worth waiting for something verified as working without fettles.
Please put me down for a PCB when the fettles are all ironed out.

This will be my first attempt at anything more complicated than casual soldering since the early 80s. Are there any SMD components?

Cheers, Robin
Last edited by colonel32 on Wed Jul 18, 2018 4:57 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: FreeFi-232 v2

Post by danielj » Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:27 pm

Hey Robin - it's all SMD I'm afraid. No time to learn like the present I guess! :? :shock: - what soldering weapon have you got? The ESP12 is SMD, and the level shifter I'm using isn't available as a DIP so I just did everything as SMD (it makes the routing a bit easier too as you can run underneath things with impunity). The level shifter's the hardest part, it needs drag soldering with lots of flux, the rest isn't too bad as it's all 0805 parts.

d.

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Re: FreeFi-232 v2

Post by colonel32 » Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:45 pm

danielj wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:27 pm
No time to learn like the present I guess! :? :shock: - what soldering weapon have you got?
I have one of these (variable power but not temp-controlled, and no drag tip yet), and a 2 foot long blowtorch.

I should definitely get some practice in. Can you do get stripboard fine enough to play with drag soldering?

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Re: FreeFi-232 v2

Post by hoglet » Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:05 pm

colonel32 wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 5:45 pm
I should definitely get some practice in. Can you do get stripboard fine enough to play with drag soldering?
Not that I've seen, but you can get practice kits:
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SMT-SMD-Comp ... 2028175248

I don't think it comes with a SSOP28 chip, but I'm sure you can yet one cheaply on eBay if you don't care what it is.

And when you are done, just use a Black and Decker paint stripper to desolder everything in one go.

Endless fun to be had!

Dave
Last edited by hoglet on Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: FreeFi-232 v2

Post by colonel32 » Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:09 pm

hoglet wrote:
Wed Jul 18, 2018 6:05 pm
you can get practice kits
Oh yes, perfect. Cheers!

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