Trying to get an R260 Networked.

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AndyMc1280
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Trying to get an R260 Networked.

Post by AndyMc1280 »

Hi

I have RO 3.11 and the universal boot installed and the internet stack, I am working away inside with settings and I get prompted to save and reboot, which I do.

I then get the boot up and a 'not enough memory for system variable' after !Inetsetup

this is on a 16 MB R260!

I have I-cubed Etherlan 500 Network interface installed with an updated EtherH16.

What am I missing ?

Cheers

Andrew
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paulv
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Re: Trying to get an R260 Networked.

Post by paulv »

This rings a bell. Is InternetA in your podule rom?

Paul
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Re: Trying to get an R260 Networked.

Post by AndyMc1280 »

no idea, how do I find out ? If it isn't what do I do?

Bad cold - brain cloud :(

Cheers
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paulv
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Re: Trying to get an R260 Networked.

Post by paulv »

Use *ROMModules to list all the modules in ROM. It should list everything in each of the podules too. If it's installed, InternetA is DCI2 and isn't required so *UNPLUG it.

Another thing to check is the SystemSize value using *STATUS. Mine is set to 96K. IIRC I had to increase the value of that when I installed Uniboot.

*Conf. SystemSize 96K

My A410/1 has an Etherlan 510 card in and used to have an Etherlan 500 card in with only 4MB of RAM so it's definitely workable :D

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AndyMc1280
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Re: Trying to get an R260 Networked.

Post by AndyMc1280 »

InternetA is not there

Have set the SystemSize to 96K - it was at Zero :o

Now what ? - sorry I know, I'm not doing a great job of independent thinking, please bear with me.

Thanks
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paulv
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Re: Trying to get an R260 Networked.

Post by paulv »

If you can list the ROMModules that are on the EtherLan ROM and their statuses (Active, Dormant etc.) I'll compare with mine and we can see if there are any differences.

Paul
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Re: Trying to get an R260 Networked.

Post by AndyMc1280 »

Podule 3 whioch is the Etherlan is as follows

MbufManager 0.17 Active
EtherH 4.33 Dormant
CMOSLock 0.07 Active
AUNMsgs 0.07 Active
Internet 5.04 Active
Net 6.18 Dormant
Bootnet 0.88 Active
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paulv
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Re: Trying to get an R260 Networked.

Post by paulv »

Ok based on that list,

*UNPLUG the following modules.

EtherH
CMOSLock
AUNMsgs
Internet

EtherH should be at least v 4.52 so if you've not got that version, it is available on my site here:

http://www.retro-kit.co.uk/page.cfm/con ... herLAN500/

CMOSLock whilst not entirely relevant to your Internet access is probably surplus to requirements and you'll probably not miss it being UNPLUGed.

AUNMsgs should be soft loaded by Uniboot (my version is 0.08)

Internet - although your version in ROM is 5.04, mine is 4.03 with 5.04 being softloaded by Uniboot. I figure you may be OK not unplugging this one but as an experiment, do so and let Uniboot soft load its version of Internet and see how you get on.

Paul
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Re: Trying to get an R260 Networked.

Post by AndyMc1280 »

Ok I have done as you suggested, already had EtherH from your site, I think you mentioned it last time I was prattling on about this.

I think I now need some help with the actual settings on the R260 :( I did this successfully on a RPC but since that is not working at the moment I am a bit stuck for inspiration.


Thanks again :)
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paulv
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Re: Trying to get an R260 Networked.

Post by paulv »

Hi Andy,

I'm not clear from your last post whether those changes fixed the memory error you were seeing.

If you think your settings are correct and it's still not working, there's a jumper on the Etherlan card that may need changing if you're using 10 Base T instead of 10 Base 2. The header on the board is a three pin header marked with T and 2. If it's set incorrectly network access won't work.
JP 2 Etherlan 500
JP 2 Etherlan 500
Etherlan500-JP2.png (152.75 KiB) Viewed 5101 times
Paul
AndyMc1280
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Re: Trying to get an R260 Networked.

Post by AndyMc1280 »

Hi

Yes sorry the memory error has been fixed. I'm now getting something about routing as it boots... doesn't stay there very long. I will check the jumpers on the card although that will have to wait till tomorrow.

I'm not convinced I have the settings correct....

Is there any way to log the boot process or slow it down so I can see the message ?

Cheers

Andrew
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paulv
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Re: Trying to get an R260 Networked.

Post by paulv »

Hi Andrew,

The error you're describing does sound like a settings issue now. I'll take screenshots of my config and post them with notes to show you what you should do for your system.

Paul
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paulv
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Re: Trying to get an R260 Networked.

Post by paulv »

A quick guide to configuring your IP settings on RISC OS 3.11 :D

1. Determine your current network settings for your network. (I'm using Windows but there are similar tools on OS X and Linux)

In a command prompt, type ipconfig /all to list all your network adapter settings on your computer.
Windows IP configuration
Windows IP configuration
Win-IPConfig.png (39.3 KiB) Viewed 5087 times
In the image, the important bits to pick out are as follows (your settings will be different to mine):

IPv4 Address - 10.1.1.17
Subnet Mask - 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway -10.1.1.3
DNS Servers - 10.1.1.3, 10.1.1.4
Primary DNS suffix - web-architect.co.uk

Make a note of your PC's settings. Your Arc will need almost identical settings to get on your network.

2. Moving to your Arc, open up InetSetup and navigate to the EtherLan 500 card configuration option.
Archimedes IP address
Archimedes IP address
IPAddress.gif (26.26 KiB) Viewed 5087 times
You can see from the image that my Arc has been given an IP address of 10.1.1.40. This has to be unique so I picked an address I know is not in use by anything else. Because the Subnet mask on my network is 255.255.255.0 it means that the first three numbers in the IP address are always the same. The last number should be in the range 0 to 255. Arguably there are some "special" IP addresses that should not be used like, .1, .254 and .255 but as long as the number you choose isn't in use on another machine you should be fine.

The Netmask or Subnet mask should be the same as the value set on your PC. This is almost always 255.255.255.0 on most home networks.

3. Now configure your gateway/router settings. This should be the same value as the default gateway on your Windows/Linux machine. For me this is 10.1.1.3
Archimedes Router settings
Archimedes Router settings
Router.gif (20.05 KiB) Viewed 5087 times
4. Finally configure your DNS entries in the hosts section.
Archimedes Hosts/DNS settings
Archimedes Hosts/DNS settings
DNS.gif (45.38 KiB) Viewed 5087 times
For the most part, these should be the same as the settings derived from your PC. My settings are slightly different and the secondary and tertiary point at Virgin Media's DNS servers.

You can give your R260 a name. Make it unique for the network.
The value for the local domain should be the same as your networks Primary DNS suffix.

Now clearly my IP config uses addresses starting with 10.1.1.x but it's more likely that your network will start with 192.168.0.x or 192.168.1.x depending on the manufacturer of your router which allocates IP addresses on your network. The Arc Internet stack does not support DHCP which provides the allocation service so you have to do all this manually.

HTH

Paul
AndyMc1280
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Re: Trying to get an R260 Networked.

Post by AndyMc1280 »

Paul

Still not quite there. Just whipped the card out and had a look. No Jumper on JP2 :shock: - now rectified :mrgreen:

Slightly better in that I can ping the router now and I have an orange light on it where the r260 is plugged in.

I cant however ping google.com (like you do in your video) so I'm obviously missing something.....

cheers

Andrew
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paulv
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Re: Trying to get an R260 Networked.

Post by paulv »

Andrew,

Can you ping an external IP address rather than just a domain?

Try pinging 217.147.82.67. That's one of my servers co-located in Maidenhead and runs the retro-kit site.

If that works then you need to look at your DNS settings again. If it doesn't work then check that the Gateway is set to the IP address of your router correctly.

Paul
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Re: Trying to get an R260 Networked.

Post by AndyMc1280 »

Paul

I can Ping your Server!

30 packets sent 30 received 0% Packet loss....

Hmm

DNS SERVERS: (on the arc)

Pri 192.168.0.1
Sec 90.207.238.97
Ter 90.207.238.99

Should I remove the router address and just have the two DNS Servers ?

Andrew
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paulv
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Re: Trying to get an R260 Networked.

Post by paulv »

Should I remove the router address and just have the two DNS Servers ?
Probably an idea to do that.

My config is slightly different to most people's and I have my own local DNS server with caching proxy on a Win 2k router for the network which then routes to a DMZ network with the actual broadband router in it. We're effectively double firewalled using two separate subnets for each stage of the network. Guests on wireless only access the DMZ and our home office network is protected from them :D

Paul
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Re: Trying to get an R260 Networked.

Post by AndyMc1280 »

That explains a lot.

Those primary and secondary DNS server IP's were pulled from my router. I am on sky broadband. I wonder if they have different ones.

Took the router address out, same thing, can ping IP's but not domain.

nearly there! :)

Thanks

Andrew
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paulv
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Re: Trying to get an R260 Networked.

Post by paulv »

Ok so your DNS should now be:

Pri: 90.207.238.97
Sec: 90.207.238.99

Make sure the Name resolver is set to "Resolver (Acorn)" and the "Use name servers also" option is selected. It it's still having problems resolving names after that then we'll need to do a bit more digging :D

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Re: Trying to get an R260 Networked.

Post by AndyMc1280 »

DNS : They are
Name resolver / use name servers also - set as they should be.

Just a thought, I have an Econet board installed also, would this interfere ?

Gonna give up for now and watch a movie/eat dinner :lol: :)

Cheers

Andrew
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paulv
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Re: Trying to get an R260 Networked.

Post by paulv »

Ok, NP.

When you have time change your primary and secondary DNS servers to 8.8.8.8 and 8.8.4.4 respectively. These are Google's public DNS servers. Apparently, some Sky users get better results with those servers...

Another thing that occurs to me, make sure there are no spaces before or after the IP addresses, RISC OS doesn't cope well with spaces in the Internet settings text boxes and doesn't automagically trim spaces off of strings :(

Paul
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Elminster
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Re: Trying to get an R260 Networked.

Post by Elminster »

Not familiar with Risc OS networking at all, so I assume there is no equiv of nslookup or dig.

One thought though, if you add a made up hostname to your host file (I assume Risc O has hostfiles) with some random ip address (doesnt matter what, does ping try to ping the correct ip address. Irrelevant if ping works just whether is resolves the domain name from the local host file.

EDIT: Or more thoughts occur to me.

1) Point dns at some random PC you own. Run wireshart/tcpdump etc on that machine and see if you are getting hit on UDP 53; or

2) If really brave setup your own local dns server, point Acorn at that, and watch the log files; or

3) Make friends with someone how owns an internet accessibly dns server and get them to watch the logs.
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paulv
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Re: Trying to get an R260 Networked.

Post by paulv »

AndyMc1280 wrote:Just a thought, I have an Econet board installed also, would this interfere ?
Missed this. No, my machine has Econet fitted too. No problems at all with that :D

I was going to suggest some more in depth checks after testing with Google's DNS servers along the lines of Elminster's suggestions. But for speed, just change the DNS server IP addresses first, from what I've read some Sky users simply cannot resolve domains with the official DNS servers :-/

Paul
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Re: Trying to get an R260 Networked.

Post by AndyMc1280 »

2

192.168.0.6

UNKNOWN

00:C0:32:00:C0:94
Looking in "attached devices" on my router I get the above. So it is seeing the R260 and its IP...

Changed the DNS servers to google, still the same effect.

Just had a thought:

Does it matter that in "Local domain" on the arc is blank ? I don't have a primary DNS suffix in ipconfig /all under windows (the space is blank)

Andrew
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paulv
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Re: Trying to get an R260 Networked.

Post by paulv »

Does it matter that in "Local domain" on the arc is blank ? I don't have a primary DNS suffix in ipconfig /all under windows (the space is blank)
No that's fine. The suffix is pretty much a way of being able to ping machines just by their "first name" instead of their fully qualified domain name.

e.g. My windows computer as per the screen shot above is called defiant and it lives in the web-architect.co.uk domain.

If the DNS suffix was blank, I'd have to type "ping defiant.web-architect.co.uk" every time I wanted to ping the machine. Because I have the suffix set, I only have to type "ping defiant" and the suffix is appended to make things work :D

As for your issue. I think now we need to know what's happening at a deeper level.

Firstly. Do a *help Resolver and let us know what version of the Acorn Resolver you have. If it's not installed, that will be the problem.

Secondly, it it is installed, install wireshark on one of your networked computers so we'll be able to see what's happening at the network level.

When you've done that, set the Arc's primary DNS server to the IP address of the machine with Wireshark on.

Set Wireshark to capture packets on your active network card and set the filter field to "ip.addr == 192.168.0.6 and dns". Which should only list packets coming from or going to your Arc for the DNS service.

The Filter field should be green if it's correctly set.
Wireshark screenshot
Wireshark screenshot
wireshark.png (16.6 KiB) Viewed 4996 times
Then on your Arc, ping google or any other site by name and see what gets listed in Wireshark (if anything). It won't resolve but you should see activity on Wireshark and it should at least show us whether you're Arc is sending out DNS packets to the wider world.

Once you've got some entries in Wireshark, use the "Export Specified Packets" file menu option to export just those filtered packets and post them here for us to take a look at.

Paul
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Re: Trying to get an R260 Networked.

Post by AndyMc1280 »

Resolver 0.49 (08 Sep 1997) is installed. Is there a newer version ?

Have also installed wireshark will meddle with that later as I have to nip out and uh resolve a few things :lol:

More to follow.... :mrgreen:
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paulv
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Re: Trying to get an R260 Networked.

Post by paulv »

AndyMc1280 wrote:Resolver 0.49 (08 Sep 1997) is installed. Is there a newer version ?
That's the same version I'm running.

Quick question. Do you still have that error report about routing when you boot? If we can determine what it says it might point us in the right direction.

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Re: Trying to get an R260 Networked.

Post by AndyMc1280 »

Routing error - not that I can see.
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paulv
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Re: Trying to get an R260 Networked.

Post by paulv »

AndyMc1280 wrote:Routing error - not that I can see.
Ok, don't bother with Wireshark for now, it sounds very much more like the software is at fault.

I'll have a tinker this evening and have a look at the scripts to see what could be happening...

Paul
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paulv
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Re: Trying to get an R260 Networked.

Post by paulv »

Andrew,

Can you zip up and attach your !Boot.Choices.Internet.Startup file? That is the file that the config tools create and sets Gateway and DNS server settings amongst other bits and pieces. It's likely that the error is in that script.

Paul
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