Disc errors with adffs?

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Midar
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Disc errors with adffs?

Post by Midar » Thu Dec 20, 2018 7:40 pm

Hi!

I recently got an A5000 to get into RISC OS (I never used it when the hardware was still current). After finally finding a SparkPlug that works (turns out the instructions to use the older version if you need only 26 bit are wrong and the newest version actually works), I installed adffs. I got a few adf files now, however, around 1/8 of them give me read errors in some files. It's always the same file on a given image, and for every image, the error is "Disc error 10 at :0/000C6C00". Is this a known issue? I could not find anything about it.

sirbod
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Re: Disc errors with adffs?

Post by sirbod » Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:29 pm

Are the ADF's complete? The file size should be C8000.

I've seen quite a few truncated ADF's, particularly in the TOSEC set. Some are truncated on purpose to fool disc protection, but quite a lot are simply bad images.

Where possible you want to grab the JFD versions of games from JASPP. We can't currently distribute HD installed versions to RISC OS 3.11 through PackMan, so unfortunately it's a manual process of grabbing the JFD's or full archives from the forum and transferring them over.

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Re: Disc errors with adffs?

Post by Midar » Thu Dec 20, 2018 10:13 pm

One particular game where I have this problem is Populous. The JFD version just crashed, so I grabbed an ADF. This ADF contains a non-essential file that I cannot copy. I looked at all the ADF files I could find, and they all have a different size - even those that work, from which I can copy all files.

Would you suggest I try again with the JFD and debug why it's crashing?

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Re: Disc errors with adffs?

Post by sirbod » Sat Dec 22, 2018 6:08 am

Where JFD's are available, I'd advise using them over ADF as they have associated scripts that resolve any problems with the !Run and/or bugs in the game.

Did you Boot the JFD from the ADFFS Filer? Or run in manually? What was the error?

The download pages detail how to run the games, and what they're compatible with in this case so long as you're using Boot Floppy it should work without error.

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Re: Disc errors with adffs?

Post by Midar » Mon Dec 24, 2018 1:06 am

I tried again with JFDs, and it does work. For Populous, it seems I downloaded the RiscPC version by accident. With the proper version, it works exactly like with the ADF files: Which means it runs way too fast on my A5000 (water animation is insanely fast, music plays insanely fast - samples play way too early and overlap each other). Is there any way to bring the A5000's performance down to that of a 3010? I already tried disabling caches, but since it's still clocking at 33 MHz, it's still obviously almost 3 times faster. I did use Boot Floppy.

Is ADFFS only patching games when using Boot Floppy? E.g. Gods only worked when using Boot Floppy, not when just launched. But even then, it seemed to not like keyboard input (I could move left and right, but that's it - could not even navigate the menu).

Oh, and Sim City now works, too! Even though I copied it to the hard disk, it now works, unlike the ADF I had before.

One more problem I have though is with the Acorn C/C++ compiler: When I run the installer, it tells me to insert disk 2. Once I do that, I get a modal popup to insert disk 1. Since I now learned that I can switch to the first disk with Ctrl-Shift-F1, I tried that, but it did not work. When pressing it multiple times, I at some point just get an error from ADFFS. Is there any way to install it via ADFFS?

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Re: Disc errors with adffs?

Post by sirbod » Mon Dec 24, 2018 8:28 am

Midar wrote:
Mon Dec 24, 2018 1:06 am
Populous, ... runs way too fast on my A5000
Most games are speed corrected by the boot script, I don't recall Populous being one that needs regulating. See if CTRL-SHIFT-PgUp (see the !Help) a couple of times slows it down. I know there's a speed issue in the intro that's only fixed when run on StrongARM and newer.

It runs at the correct speed on a Pi and on an emulated A5000 (can't test on physical as my A5000 needs repair), so it's speed is most possibly tied to the monitor refresh rate. Correcting the speed of games running off VSync on an original Arc is not always possible; you can't just stall the machine without knock on effects. Although ADFFS does have the code for this, it's currently disabled in IOC/IOMD builds because of the knock on effects.

ADFFS can however speed correct games that frame swap, which is what CTRL-SHIFT-PgUp / PgDn control. From the quick test I've just done this does slow the game down.
Midar wrote:
Mon Dec 24, 2018 1:06 am
Is ADFFS only patching games when using Boot Floppy?
Games are only patched if booted. If you want to HD install them, you'll need to manually replace the !Run with the boot script (found in !ADFFS.obey) and modify the script so it doesn't swap to ADFS and/or set Obey$Dir.

Packaged versions of HD installed versions are available via PackMan, unfortunely this doesn't help you as PackMan isn't currently available for RISC OS 3.11 and would require an Internet connection anyway. If you have a Pi, you could grab them that way and ZIP them up before copying across to the A5000.

TBH If you have a Pi, you're better off playing games on that, as they run far better on a Pi than the hardware they were written for!
Midar wrote:
Mon Dec 24, 2018 1:06 am
Gods only worked when using Boot Floppy, not when just launched. But even then, it seemed to not like keyboard input (I could move left and right, but that's it - could not even navigate the menu).
The download page for each game details how to run it, the majority are via Boot Floppy. The general rule of thumb is use Boot Floppy for everything.

I've just tested GODS, which seems to work okay with ' and / for up and down in the menu.
Midar wrote:
Mon Dec 24, 2018 1:06 am
One more problem I have though is with the Acorn C/C++ compiler: When I run the installer, it tells me to insert disk 2. Once I do that, I get a modal popup to insert disk 1. Since I now learned that I can switch to the first disk with Ctrl-Shift-F1, I tried that, but it did not work.
Ah, the bane of my life...RISC OS's messed up floppy change detection.

In 2.70 I modified the floppy change notification code for RISC OS 5, that may have broken it for RISC OS 3.11. Try downloading 2.69, grab the !ADFFS.ADFFS Module and manually run it after loading ADFFS 2.70....does the floppy then get detected when swapping discs during install?

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Re: Disc errors with adffs?

Post by sirbod » Fri Dec 28, 2018 3:13 pm

sirbod wrote:
Mon Dec 24, 2018 8:28 am
Midar wrote:
Mon Dec 24, 2018 1:06 am
One more problem I have though is with the Acorn C/C++ compiler: When I run the installer, it tells me to insert disk 2. Once I do that, I get a modal popup to insert disk 1. Since I now learned that I can switch to the first disk with Ctrl-Shift-F1, I tried that, but it did not work.
Ah, the bane of my life...RISC OS's messed up floppy change detection.

In 2.70 I modified the floppy change notification code for RISC OS 5, that may have broken it for RISC OS 3.11. Try downloading 2.69, grab the !ADFFS.ADFFS Module and manually run it after loading ADFFS 2.70....does the floppy then get detected when swapping discs during install?
I've tracked this issue down to register corruption in the MiscOp_PollChanged handler, it should be resolved in the next release. In the meantime use the ADFFS Module from 2.69

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Re: Disc errors with adffs?

Post by Midar » Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:19 pm

I have tried this with 2.69 now, but exactly the same behavior: I run the installer from Disk 1, I press Ctrl-Shift-F2 when it asks for the second disk, I immediately get the error that I need to reinsert Disk 1, I press Ctrl-Shift-F1 when the modal dialog pops up and nothing happens. I hit Ctrl-Shift-F1 multiple times, and I get the same error message again.

I'm not sure if this is an issue with the Acorn C/C++ installer or ADFFS, though. I could try writing to real disks, but I have not found a tool for this that actually works (I found two - one of them would not start at all, the other would write disks that are unreadable after writing them).

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Re: Disc errors with adffs?

Post by sirbod » Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:16 pm

Midar wrote:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 1:19 pm
I'm not sure if this is an issue with the Acorn C/C++ installer or ADFFS, though. I could try writing to real disks, but I have not found a tool for this that actually works (I found two - one of them would not start at all, the other would write disks that are unreadable after writing them).
Copy the files to a RAM drive, then eject the floppy image and copy from the RAM drive to drive 0.

I've attached a build of 2.71h from yesterday (now removed) if you want to see if it's any different - its not been tested yet. The only other thing I can think of is it can't allocate enough memory when swapping discs, so try *ADFReserveMemory 830
Last edited by sirbod on Fri Jan 04, 2019 4:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Midar
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Re: Disc errors with adffs?

Post by Midar » Thu Jan 03, 2019 9:11 pm

I tried copying the files to real disks, only to have the same problem. It seems like the official C/C++ compiler for RISC OS 3 was released with a broken installer that made installation impossible? That is … surprising.

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Re: Disc errors with adffs?

Post by sirbod » Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:12 pm

Do you have a !Boot and !System on your HD? It might be trying to a system merge and falls back to disc 1.

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paulv
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Re: Disc errors with adffs?

Post by paulv » Sat Jan 05, 2019 10:29 am

IIRC some of the C/C++ installers look for the 177x disc controller, hitting the hardware directly to do so so if you're trying to install from those discs on any RO3 machine that doesn't have that hardware the installer dies.

To get around that, I installed it on one of my older Arc's then cos the folders over Econet to my A5000. It worked a treat.

I do have my version of Acorn C release 4 zipped in a way that is installable on the later Arc's of necessary.

Paul

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Re: Disc errors with adffs?

Post by Midar » Sat Jan 05, 2019 10:45 pm

sirbod wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 10:12 pm
Do you have a !Boot and !System on your HD? It might be trying to a system merge and falls back to disc 1.
I have !System, but no !Boot. It does merge !System, but the problem only occurs after that, when it tries to actually install.

@paulv: Are you saying the installer never worked on an A5000?

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Re: Disc errors with adffs?

Post by paulv » Sat Jan 05, 2019 10:58 pm

Certainly my version of the Acorn C development environment which is release 4 will not install on an Arc without a 177x FDC but once you get it over onto one of the later machines it works just fine. It's just the installer that doesn't work...

If you'd like a copy of my fresh install in a zipped form I can provide it for you :-)

Paul

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Re: Disc errors with adffs?

Post by danielj » Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:02 pm

Hmm, I installed the final 26bit release from 4corn on my a5000 via a gotek and that worked fine... Mind you, that version is OK on a riscpc too...

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Re: Disc errors with adffs?

Post by paulv » Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:16 am

danielj wrote:
Sat Jan 05, 2019 11:02 pm
Quote danielj
I guess it depends on the version, the installer with the version I have definitely requires the 177x disc controller to detect the disc change because it hits the hardware directly. On the later machines it just locks up because the hardware isn't there. God only knows why they did that instead of using an OS legal method of detection :roll: mind you, I'd have to look at the PRM's but I don't recall there being a disc change SWI off the top of my head.

Paul

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Re: Disc errors with adffs?

Post by sirbod » Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:32 pm

paulv wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 9:16 am
I guess it depends on the version, the installer with the version I have definitely requires the 177x disc controller to detect the disc change because it hits the hardware directly.
A RISC OS 2 era version by any chance? RISC OS 3 added a legal method to detect the floppy disc controller.

I can't think what difference a 177x makes, or why it would want to check for it. The only reason I can think would be for disc protection, but I don't remember any protection on Acorn software.

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Re: Disc errors with adffs?

Post by paulv » Sun Jan 06, 2019 5:31 pm

sirbod wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:32 pm
A RISC OS 2 era version by any chance? RISC OS 3 added a legal method to detect the floppy disc controller.
TBH, I'm not sure. It's a copy of Acorn Desktop C - Release 4 which I thought was the first RO3 era version but now you ask, I don't actually know.

Paul

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Re: Disc errors with adffs?

Post by danielj » Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:31 pm

This is the version I'm using, and it's fine with the HD disc controller: https://www.4corn.co.uk/articles/acornc5/

d.

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Re: Disc errors with adffs?

Post by Midar » Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:24 am

danielj wrote:
Sun Jan 06, 2019 6:31 pm
This is the version I'm using, and it's fine with the HD disc controller: https://www.4corn.co.uk/articles/acornc5/

d.
I'm using this version, too, https://www.4corn.co.uk/archive/acornc5 ... -discs.zip in particular. I extracted the ZIP, put 3 images each into a new ZIP and then copied those two resulting ZIPs to the A5000. The result with ADFFS is the one described above, same if I use ADFFS to mount the disk, copy the contents to memory, format a new physical disk and copy the contents to it (repeat for the remaining 5 disks).

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Re: Disc errors with adffs?

Post by sirbod » Tue Jan 08, 2019 2:00 pm

Midar wrote:
Tue Jan 08, 2019 3:24 am
I'm using this version, too, https://www.4corn.co.uk/archive/acornc5 ... -discs.zip in particular.
I've just tried installing this and it installed okay for me on both RISC OS 3.11 and RISC OS 3.71 using ADFFS to mount the images. I did have to install Uniboot and install it to RAM: otherwise it just complained about there not being enough disc space - I suspect its checking ADFS::4 directly, which would explain the behaviour noted above.

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