Pascal Roms

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Woody
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Pascal Roms

Post by Woody » Mon Jun 08, 2009 7:29 pm

Hi new to all this, so if I've post in wrong place forgive me.

I recently bought a couple of ISO pascal roms. One has Pascal C on, which I believe is the compiler and the other Pascal I, the editor and run time interpreter.
I have tried them in a BBC Micro and Master sysytem but all I get when both are in is a flashing line in the top corner. When I just put the one with the C on, I get pascal in corner but cannot do anything. The one with the I on by itself a flashing line. Is there anything I can do or do I need to source another one.

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MartinB
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Re: Pascal Roms

Post by MartinB » Mon Jun 08, 2009 9:13 pm

Hi Woody and welcome to STH :)

Yours sound like the Acornsoft ISO Pascal roms so I've had a play to see what might be going wrong. The 'I' rom can be fitted by itself and you can enter the editor with *PASCAL to get to the % prompt. In fact, most things work unless you try and compile a file when of course the 'C' rom is called and must be present. If just the 'C' rom is fitted and you try and enter the language, you just get 'Pascal' on the screen and the computer hangs.

My conclusion then is that your 'I' rom is faulty and you will need a replacement :(

Do you have any low-level monitor roms or equivalent disc-based apps that can hex-view sideways roms? If you do, I can attach an image of the 'I' rom for comparison. You may even see that it's just blank through old age - are the roms eproms (circular window) or plain plastic original roms?

Martin

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Woody
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Re: Pascal Roms

Post by Woody » Mon Jun 08, 2009 9:57 pm

Hi Martin,

Thanks for the reply,

They are the Acornsoft Roms.
As I'm new to all this, I don't think I have any low-level monitor roms or equivalent disc-based apps. Don't think the Roms are eprom, you can see them on ebay item number 160320784240.

Thought the 'I' Rom may be faulty :(

Woody

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Re: Pascal Roms

Post by CMcDougall » Wed Jun 10, 2009 1:32 pm

i have the images on old discs from BITD, so here they are!

PASCAL6/7 are the Acorn ones.

all you need to do is load into sideways ram, or blow onto eprom if no Swram!

also the Elk Version from 3rd yr at 2nd'ry school. :oops:
Attachments
SPascalElec.rar
Pascal Elk version
(12.46 KiB) Downloaded 188 times
Pascal-BITS.rar
Pascal roms
(44.13 KiB) Downloaded 246 times
ImageImageImage

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Woody
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Re: Pascal Roms

Post by Woody » Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:14 pm

thanks for the images.

Just need to learn how to transfer them to a rom.

Martin, I have just peeled back the stick on the faulty rom and it does have a circular windows on it. The number on it is

PGM 12.5v
HN27128AG-17

Does this mean it a eprom and can be reprogrammed.
If so how and does anyone have the Acornsoft Pascal I image.
As all this side is new to me.

Thanks

Woody

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MartinB
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Re: Pascal Roms

Post by MartinB » Wed Jun 10, 2009 9:57 pm

Hi Woody.

Yeah, that means it's an eprom and it's possible that a re-program will restore it but it's also possible that it's failed.

Here's a plan if you like - send me both roms and I'll see if the faulty one can be recovered by re-programming and if not, I'll furnish a replacement. I say send both because there was a later version, 1.10, after the initial 1.00 and if you have the latter in the 'C' rom then I could additionally upgrade both to 1.10. If no new roms are needed then not much more than cost of p&p and if a new rom is required then maybe plus a couple of quid - I won't skin you :wink:

How's that sound?

Martin

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Re: Pascal Roms

Post by Woody » Wed Jun 10, 2009 10:06 pm

Hi Martin,

That sounds great, if you pm me your address, I'll send them down.

Thanks

Woody

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Re: Pascal Roms

Post by MartinB » Wed Jun 10, 2009 10:23 pm

PM sent - my work here is done :wink:

Martin

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Woody
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Re: Pascal Roms

Post by Woody » Wed Jun 10, 2009 10:46 pm

Thanks Martin :D

On this subject your work is done but there will be more, as I get back into it.

Woody.

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Re: Pascal Roms

Post by MartinB » Wed Jun 10, 2009 10:56 pm

Woody wrote:...but there will be more, as I get back into it.
Yes, I'm sure there will but remember that you've now just used up your 'One-off new STH member's introductory free help offer deal'..... :lol:

Martin

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Re: Pascal Roms

Post by MartinB » Sun Jun 14, 2009 10:17 pm

Hi Woody.

I got the roms ok and quickly confirmed that whilst the 'I' device was readable, it was non-responsive as a Pascal rom. From the (happily :)) good 'C' rom, I established that the version you bought is already the later (1.1) release and referring to the 1.1 images, I could see that the suspect 'I' device had multiple locations across the whole 16k which had random bits set to a 1. I therefore (successfully) erased the device but unfortunately it could not be reliably reprogrammed - it sometimes appeared to program and verify but on power cycle immediately showed corrupted locations again. Not common I have to say but not unheard of either in these ageing devices.

So, I will replace the 'I' rom, programmed to 1.1 and return the pair to you.

You mentioned separately about the possibility of a second set of roms but it occurs to me that since you have a Master, you can load images of the roms into two of the Master's SWR banks and run it from ram (as Colin McD suggested earlier). I could therefore add a floppy containing the two 1.1 images to the return package if this sounds good to you? You could then leave the physical roms in the Beeb and use the SWR images on the Master. If that sounds ok, I (and plenty of others on here :wink: ) can let you know how to use rom images on a Master.

( What type of drives do you have for the Master - do you have a 3.5" ? )

Martin

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Woody
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Re: Pascal Roms

Post by Woody » Mon Jun 15, 2009 1:22 pm

Hi Martin,

Thanks for working on this, I don't have a drive yet, in the process of looking for one.

Unless I can use an old 5.25 or 3.5 from a PC I have. Just got a cassette recorder.

Woody

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Re: Pascal Roms

Post by MartinB » Mon Jun 15, 2009 2:17 pm

Woody wrote:Unless I can use an old 5.25 or 3.5 from a PC I have.
You can certainly use the 3.5" on the Master (Beebs and 3.5" drives is a long story :roll: ) and in most cases the 5.25" too although the latter can sometimes require a spot of 'link tinkering'. For the 3.5" drive, it will almost certainly be set as a Drive 1 but if you were to also use the floppy cable from the PC (sometimes a bit on the short side) then the drive select twist in this cable would revert it to respond as Drive 0. Conversely, if the drive has an easy-to-see Drive 0/1 select link or switch then you can use a straight floppy cable. There's a hefty STH thread on this very subject here. Your only remaining problem then is power to the drive but this can again be achieved in a variety of ways, the different approaches being dependent on your level of technical know-how. If you have deep pockets, I can certainly equip you with the necessary but since times are hard, you may prefer to have a go yourself :wink:.

Anyway, back to the roms then - in the absence of disc drives, do you still want a second set for the Master or would you prefer to hang on until you're sorted with discs and then use SWR images as suggested?

Martin

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Woody
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Re: Pascal Roms

Post by Woody » Mon Jun 15, 2009 2:59 pm

Hi Martin,

I'll just use the one set and have a go at getting one of the disk drive working.
Will be a challenge, I have an external power supply to run IDE, CD etc.
I'll let you know how I get on with that.



Woody

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Re: Pascal Roms

Post by MartinB » Mon Jun 15, 2009 4:12 pm

Hi Woody.

Ok, we're sorted then :D. I'll put in a 3.5" DFS disc containing the two Pascal 1.1 rom images so that when you do get up and running with a drive, you can run Pascal from disc on the Master. Just post on here for instructions when you're ready and there'll be plenty of help.

Yeah, a salvaged PC PSU is perfect for powering drives - didn't suggest it specifically because you need a little bit of tech know-how but sounds like you're ahead of the game :wink:

I'll PM you when the roms and disc are on the way back - hopefully in the post tomorrow, couple of days at the latest.

Martin

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Re: Pascal Roms

Post by Woody » Mon Jun 15, 2009 8:05 pm

Hi Martin,

Thanks again, I work for an IT company :) , on software support. Trying to get into hardware side also.

Do you want anything for doing this.

Woody.

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Re: Pascal Roms

Post by MartinB » Tue Jun 16, 2009 12:16 am

Hey Woody.

Nah, I said I wouldn't skin you so I'll just round the return postage up by a quid or so but please don't mention it to the STH freeloaders on here - I'll just get swamped with tediously heart-rending requests for help. Let's keep it to ourselves eh?

Uh oh, hang on, I think this microphone is still switched on ........ :shock: :oops:

Martin :wink:

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Re: Pascal Roms

Post by MartinB » Tue Jun 16, 2009 8:21 pm

Hi Woody.

Missed the post today (damn this working for a living :evil:) but the package is ready so will be in the post tomorrow morning and you should see it Thursday or Friday at the latest. I'll PM you tomorrow.

Martin :)

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guddler
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Re: Pascal Roms

Post by guddler » Wed Jun 17, 2009 10:58 am

Are these pascal roms available online somewhere? (Well, C roms from what I'm reading, yes?)

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Re: Pascal Roms

Post by MartinB » Wed Jun 17, 2009 11:06 am

Hi.

No, the ones under discussion are actually Pascal (Acornsoft ISO) but our (confusing) references to 'C' & 'I' are how the roms are labelled and refer to the Compiler rom and the Interpreter (+editor) rom.

They are online though, as with most others, and the best place to go is probably here.

Martin

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Re: Pascal Roms

Post by guddler » Wed Jun 17, 2009 11:15 am

Sorry - my mistake #-o

Yes, I saw "Pascal C", and thought it was slightly odd naming, but thought it was C all the same!

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Woody
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Re: Pascal Roms

Post by Woody » Sat Jun 20, 2009 9:18 pm

Hi Martin

Yippee :D Roms Arrived and fitted, I've tried them in my BBC Micro and Master but decided to keep them in the Micro. All I need now is to remember how to program.

Once again thanks for everthing you've done =D> . Hope I can return the help one day.

Woody.

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Re: Pascal Roms

Post by MartinB » Mon Jun 22, 2009 6:54 pm

Hi Woody :)

Sorry, I've been away for a few days and hence been offline - there was Wi-Fi available where we were but at £4 an hour I declined :evil:

Glad you're sorted :D - you still got a good deal on that complete Pascal package despite the extra postage and rom. I keep watching them on eBay and then walking away when the price gets silly. I missed that one you got!

Enjoy!

Martin

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Re: Pascal Roms

Post by daveejhitchins » Mon Feb 18, 2019 3:27 pm

Bump . . .

I've just downloaded Col's Pascal RAR's - loaded the ROM images into EEPROM and, from what I've read, I should be able to *PASCAL to enter the program - instead I get "Bad command" ?

I had another set of ROMs that also give that error, so thought I'd start again with fresh images! Any ideas where I'm going wrong?

Dave H :D
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Products: ARA II, ARA III, ABR, ATI, AP6, MGC, AP5 . . .
For a price list, contact me at: Retro Hardware AT dave ej hitchins DOT plus DOT com

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MartinB
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Re: Pascal Roms

Post by MartinB » Mon Feb 18, 2019 5:32 pm

Try the two images in the attached zip Dave - these are the ones I was using as discussed above. Rom 2 is actually the editor and you can have just this fitted to see PASCAL in *HELP and to enter the % prompt editor with *PASCAL but you have to have Rom 1 fitted too if you want to compile anything. You can't have just Rom 1 fitted alone, it won't appear or do anything.


Pascal.zip
(24.47 KiB) Downloaded 62 times

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Re: Pascal Roms

Post by daveejhitchins » Mon Feb 18, 2019 5:43 pm

MartinB wrote:
Mon Feb 18, 2019 5:32 pm
Try the two images in the attached zip Dave - these are the ones I was using as discussed above. Rom 2 is actually the editor and you can have just this fitted to see PASCAL in *HELP and to enter the % prompt editor with *PASCAL but you have to have Rom 1 fitted too if you want to compile anything. You can't have just Rom 1 fitted alone, it won't appear or do anything.
Thanks, Martin . . . I'll give them a try

Dave H :D
Parts: UM6502CE, GAL22V10D, GAL16V8D, AS6C62256A, TC514400AZ, WD1772, R6522, TMS27C512, AT28C256
Products: ARA II, ARA III, ABR, ATI, AP6, MGC, AP5 . . .
For a price list, contact me at: Retro Hardware AT dave ej hitchins DOT plus DOT com

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Re: Pascal Roms

Post by johncove » Thu Mar 05, 2020 5:34 pm

Hi Guys,

I hope you can help.

I am trying to burn the EPROM bin files kindly supplied by Martin but am getting an issue writing them.

I have a TOP3000 universal programmer which I use for other projects without any issues. So, my first time on the BBC now I have bought a BBC Master, I am trying to burn those ROM images to (what I believe to be compatible with the BBC) AM27128A 12.5V EPROMs

In the burning software, I am able to select those exact ROMS but the burning fails at address 251 - please see attached.

I have tried 6 different but the same specced ROMS without success - they all error out at address 251.

The ROM bin files are read successfully by the actual software and I see a dump on-screen of the ROM contents - the burning is the problem. Seems odd the burning fails at the same address on all attempts.

Please help :) I am keen to start learning Pascal.

Cheers.
Attachments
2020-03-05_17h33_40.jpg

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Re: Pascal Roms

Post by daveejhitchins » Thu Mar 05, 2020 5:56 pm

Is there an option to program in 'slow' mode? This option is sometimes available on programmers!

I had a quick look for the User Guide - and failed . . .

Dave H :D
Parts: UM6502CE, GAL22V10D, GAL16V8D, AS6C62256A, TC514400AZ, WD1772, R6522, TMS27C512, AT28C256
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For a price list, contact me at: Retro Hardware AT dave ej hitchins DOT plus DOT com

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Re: Pascal Roms

Post by johncove » Thu Mar 05, 2020 7:02 pm

Thanks for replying. There are only these settings (attached). Idk why the EPROMs won't write. All settings seem to be correct.
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2020-03-05_19h01_07.jpg

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MartinB
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Re: Pascal Roms

Post by MartinB » Thu Mar 05, 2020 8:36 pm

Can you make an all-zeroes 16k image and see if you can blow that? EPROMs erase to $FF so at the blank stage, they can report as ‘good blanks’ but could actually have faulty stuck bits that cannot be driven to zero by programming. If this is the case, they are broken and cannot be used reliably.

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