Master 512 & Winchester disc 130...

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Multiwizard
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Master 512 & Winchester disc 130...

Post by Multiwizard » Sun Apr 12, 2020 2:25 pm

Hi,

I'm very happy having a working Master 512 again... :D
It's also connected to my Winchester disc 130 drive...

I would like to auto-start GEM at powering on the Master... 8)

Now during the startup it fails because of:

Unable to load COMMAND.COM :( ,, see pic below...

Are there any solutions to overcome this problem/Issue, apart of a total new INSTALL? :cry:


Greetings, Wim... :-)

Thanks in advance...
Attachments
P1320635 Command.com.JPG

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BeebMaster
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Re: Master 512 & Winchester disc 130...

Post by BeebMaster » Sun Apr 12, 2020 9:44 pm

It's hard to know without seeing what software is on the DOS partition on the Winchester disc. Is the Command.com file missing?

I'm sure it will be possible to start up Gem when DOS Plus has loaded, it probably just needs "gem" adding to the autoexec.bat file when all the system discs have been copied to the Winchester.
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Re: Master 512 & Winchester disc 130...

Post by geraldholdsworth » Sun Apr 12, 2020 10:22 pm

It's been a few years since I played with a DOS-style OS, but - doesn't it load COMMAND.COM before AUTOEXEC.BAT?
In which case, it is either looking at the wrong drive, and not finding COMMAND.COM, or the file is physically missing (or corrupt) from the drive.
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Re: Master 512 & Winchester disc 130...

Post by danielj » Sun Apr 12, 2020 10:59 pm

What's the content of autoexec.bat? How did you install DOS on the HDD?

d.

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Multiwizard
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Re: Master 512 & Winchester disc 130...

Post by Multiwizard » Mon Apr 13, 2020 9:51 am

Do these pics help?... :(


Greetings, Wim... :-)

EDIT: how does a good working start-up COMMAND.COM look like (contains)? :-k
Attachments
vlcsnap-2020-04-13-10h32m27s667.png
vlcsnap-2020-04-13-10h33m16s026.png
Winchester C directory.png
C:\
Winchester C_DOS directory.png
C:\DOS

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Re: Master 512 & Winchester disc 130...

Post by geraldholdsworth » Mon Apr 13, 2020 11:04 am

The COMMAND.COM file is a compiled program. It, I believe, is the command line interpreter. It needs to reside on the root directory.
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Re: Master 512 & Winchester disc 130...

Post by egel » Mon Apr 13, 2020 11:13 am

Can you boot from floppy and do a "chkdsk c:"
p1030317_aangepast.jpg
?
Does it find any errors?

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Re: Master 512 & Winchester disc 130...

Post by Multiwizard » Mon Apr 13, 2020 11:25 am

egel wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 11:13 am
Can you boot from floppy and do a "chkdsk c:"p1030317_aangepast.jpg ?
Does it find any errors?
Something like this?
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P1320703.JPG
P1320704.JPG
P1320705.JPG

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Re: Master 512 & Winchester disc 130...

Post by danielj » Mon Apr 13, 2020 11:31 am

The system files haven't been installed on drive C - are you booting from drive A?

When you initialise the hard disk you have to "make it bootable": http://www.cowsarenotpurple.co.uk/bbcco ... plus2.html


d.

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Re: Master 512 & Winchester disc 130...

Post by Multiwizard » Mon Apr 13, 2020 11:34 am

danielj wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 11:31 am
The system files haven't been installed on drive C - are you booting from drive A?

d.
Yes...

If I try to boot from C:\ I get,, see pic below:
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P1320635 Command.com.JPG

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Re: Master 512 & Winchester disc 130...

Post by danielj » Mon Apr 13, 2020 11:36 am

Multiwizard wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 11:34 am
If I try to boot from C:\ I get,, see pic below:
Just edited the post above to link to the HDD installation instructions. I think your install is a bit mucked up - follow the instructions there. Additionally, it's a little concerning that chkdsk found errors - it could be that your HDD is unreliable and that's causing the problems if you did your installation properly the first time around.

d.

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Re: Master 512 & Winchester disc 130...

Post by egel » Mon Apr 13, 2020 11:46 am

danielj wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 11:36 am
Multiwizard wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 11:34 am
If I try to boot from C:\ I get,, see pic below:
Just edited the post above to link to the HDD installation instructions. I think your install is a bit mucked up - follow the instructions there. Additionally, it's a little concerning that chkdsk found errors - it could be that your HDD is unreliable and that's causing the problems if you did your installation properly the first time around.

d.
Mine also corrupts the file system after a while, but that is on an IDE disk. Changing the disk didn't help, so i think the file system implementation is quite prone to errors.

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Re: Master 512 & Winchester disc 130...

Post by Multiwizard » Mon Apr 13, 2020 11:53 am

danielj wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 11:36 am
Multiwizard wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 11:34 am
If I try to boot from C:\ I get,, see pic below:
Just edited the post above to link to the HDD installation instructions. I think your install is a bit mucked up - follow the instructions there. Additionally, it's a little concerning that chkdsk found errors - it could be that your HDD is unreliable and that's causing the problems if you did your installation properly the first time around.

d.
I have never installed this HDD myself...

In short, do I have to do a new HDD installation, if yes,,

will I lose (if I have to FORMAT C:) all my current data?... :(

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Re: Master 512 & Winchester disc 130...

Post by egel » Mon Apr 13, 2020 12:10 pm

Multiwizard wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 11:53 am
danielj wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 11:36 am
Multiwizard wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 11:34 am
If I try to boot from C:\ I get,, see pic below:
Just edited the post above to link to the HDD installation instructions. I think your install is a bit mucked up - follow the instructions there. Additionally, it's a little concerning that chkdsk found errors - it could be that your HDD is unreliable and that's causing the problems if you did your installation properly the first time around.

d.
I have never installed this HDD myself...

In short, do I have to do a new HDD installation, if yes,,

will I lose (if I have to FORMAT C:) all my current data?... :(
The DOS partition is just a file on the harddisk ADFS filesystem. If the harddisk is much larger than the DOS partition you can rename it and make a new DOS partition. So then you have another chance if you have forgotten to transfer something.

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Re: Master 512 & Winchester disc 130...

Post by BeebMaster » Mon Apr 13, 2020 12:33 pm

This is how I installed DOS Plus on a Winchester disc a while back:

http://www.beebmaster.co.uk/512/M512Hard.html
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Re: Master 512 & Winchester disc 130...

Post by Multiwizard » Mon Apr 13, 2020 7:46 pm

Thanks for all this advice... :D =D>

First I have to find me a set of "new" reliable empty floppy's...

I do have the original GEM set of 4 disks but disk 2 & 3 have some ERROR's so the installation is incomplete,, but,,,

I have a few other copied floppy's of disk 2 & 3 which contain these missing files on the original ones...

So if I can find me some "new" reliable floppy's I can copy these files together so disc 2 & disc 3 are complete during the installation...

Ian, are you able to post 2 pics of your 512 with the screens, 1st pic:

*ROMS

2nd pic:

*STATUS


Perhaps I can see some difference which could also cause some trouble...


Greetings, Wim... :-)

Thanks in advance.

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Re: Master 512 & Winchester disc 130...

Post by danielj » Mon Apr 13, 2020 7:55 pm

Guide to making new copies of the disks: http://www.cowsarenotpurple.co.uk/bbcco ... ystem.html

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Re: Master 512 & Winchester disc 130...

Post by Multiwizard » Mon Apr 13, 2020 8:08 pm

danielj wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 7:55 pm
Guide to making new copies of the disks: http://www.cowsarenotpurple.co.uk/bbcco ... ystem.html
Thanks Daniel, I know these pages, but,,

I don't have a 5.25 floppy-drive in my PC...

I prefer looking for a few empty floppy's than using the option a serial port...


Greetings, Wim... :-)

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Re: Master 512 & Winchester disc 130...

Post by roland » Mon Apr 13, 2020 9:07 pm

I don't know anything about DOS Plus or Masters with 80186 copro's installed so this post might be complete rubbish but .....

Since you can boot from a floppy, isn't there a dos command available to transfer the system files to the harddisk? In MS-DOS there was the SYS command:

Code: Select all

SYS C:
would copy the system and boot files from the active drive (in this case the floppy) to the specified drive (the harddisk). Mind that it just transfers the boot files and command processor (e.g. MSDOS.SYS and COMMAND.COM) and it makes the drive bootable. The SYS command does not install MS-DOS completely but it is a start to get a bootable disk. Then you can create an AUTOEXEC.BAT to start GEM. A CONFIG.SYS might be necessary to load drivers or to make some system settings like the number of buffers.

But again, I am not aware if DOS Plus works the same way.....
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Re: Master 512 & Winchester disc 130...

Post by BeebMaster » Mon Apr 13, 2020 10:50 pm

Multiwizard wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 7:46 pm

Ian, are you able to post 2 pics of your 512 with the screens, 1st pic:

*ROMS

2nd pic:

*STATUS


Perhaps I can see some difference which could also cause some trouble...


Greetings, Wim... :-)

Thanks in advance.
I need to re-organise my Master 512 section a bit, it's all a bit confused and not all that clear that I have two, or which is which in the picture sets. One of the picture sets has two different index pages with different numbers of pictures shown! I'll have to tidy it all up when I do the last Master 512 picture set in the PhotoBank, which topically happens to be about installing DOS Plus on a CF drive. it should be this year, but there are 599 pictures in 21 sets to do before it.

Both of my 512s are both slightly non-standard as the one in regular use here is Econet Station 201 and has MOS 3.50 and a custom ROM board but the *ROMS is shown here:

Image

I've spoken about the "everlasting battery" in this machine, but I just turned it hoping to do a *STATUS and got "This is not a language" for the first time ever! So that battery has lasted all of 17 years less 29 days since it arrived here, plus however long it was in the machine previously!

The other one is also non-standard as it has a Morley Masterboard, but this is the one which was used in the Winchester install picture set:

*ROMS here:

Image

*STATUS here:

Image

Obviously you need *CONFIGURE TUBE (and INTUBE), it was off at the time of that picture.
Image

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Re: Master 512 & Winchester disc 130...

Post by Multiwizard » Tue Apr 14, 2020 7:39 pm

The ROMS,, top pic...

Is this *STATUS ok too,, bottom pic?
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Re: Master 512 & Winchester disc 130...

Post by BeebMaster » Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:09 pm

Nothing of concern there I don't think, but as others have said, it's probably best to start again from a fresh install (or at least re-install all the files over the top of what's already there) after making a backup of the DOS DRIVEC file if you can.
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Re: Master 512 & Winchester disc 130...

Post by Multiwizard » Wed Apr 15, 2020 9:18 am

BeebMaster wrote:
Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:09 pm
Nothing of concern there I don't think, but as others have said, it's probably best to start again from a fresh install (or at least re-install all the files over the top of what's already there) after making a backup of the DOS DRIVEC file if you can.
I know, but this is just what I tried to avoid mentioning it in my first post :( :

Are there any solutions to overcome this problem/Issue, apart of a total new INSTALL? :cry:

At the mo I have no options to save the data on drive C:\... :(

I do have another 20MB MFM HD but it's not been recognised when I connect it up in the Winchester... :(

I also don't know if this 20MB MFM disc is formatted or not...

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Re: Master 512 & Winchester disc 130...

Post by egel » Wed Apr 15, 2020 9:51 am

roland wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 9:07 pm
I don't know anything about DOS Plus or Masters with 80186 copro's installed so this post might be complete rubbish but .....

.......

A CONFIG.SYS might be necessary to load drivers or to make some system settings like the number of buffers.

But again, I am not aware if DOS Plus works the same way.....
No CONFIG.SYS on DOS Plus
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Re: Master 512 & Winchester disc 130...

Post by egel » Wed Apr 15, 2020 9:59 am

Multiwizard wrote:
Wed Apr 15, 2020 9:18 am

At the mo I have no options to save the data on drive C:\... :(
Multiwizard wrote:
Mon Apr 13, 2020 7:46 pm
Thanks for all this advice... :D =D>

First I have to find me a set of "new" reliable empty floppy's...

I do have the original GEM set of 4 disks but disk 2 & 3 have some ERROR's so the installation is incomplete,, but,,,

I have a few other copied floppy's of disk 2 & 3 which contain these missing files on the original ones...

So if I can find me some "new" reliable floppy's I can copy these files together so disc 2 & disc 3 are complete during the installation...

A GOTEK is a good solution for both.

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Re: Master 512 & Winchester disc 130...

Post by BeebMaster » Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:23 am

It looks to be a 10MB DOS partition, so assuming there's plenty of space on the 30MB WInchester, you could rename the $.DOS directory and then make a new install without losing your existing install, which could be fixed or investigated further at some other point, maybe at a future gathering. There's an option to make a 4MB DOS drive which hopefully will be small enough to fit in the free space still left on the Winchester.

It's possible to archive the contents of the Winchester, or just the DRIVE_C file, to floppies but it will be a long process, and as you say, you will need some reliable floppies. I'm not sure if Treecopy can split large files across multiple floppy discs. I did archive my whole Technomatic Winchester to 30-odd floppy discs once upon a time, but I can't remember what I used.

You could add the second Winchester disc to the Adaptec controller inside the Winchester 130 box and set it to drive number 1. What make & model number is it? The Adaptec controller supports two drives, so you could use drive 1 to make a backup.
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Re: Master 512 & Winchester disc 130...

Post by Multiwizard » Wed Apr 15, 2020 5:02 pm

I have a Kyocera KC-20B H Hard Drive:

http://computermuseum.informatik.uni-st ... 0/1929.htm

https://stason.org/TULARC/pc/hard-drive ... ST506.html

https://www.redhill.net.au/d/8.php

See top pic below:


About the current HardDrive,,

you mean at first choose the first option in the menu:

Create 4 M Byte Hard Disk Partition

, see bottom pic, then,

then choose the last option in the menu:

Make Hard Disk Partition Bootable

?

( but first I need to (find &) make me new copies of floppy #2 (GEM Applications) and #3 (GEM DATA ) without ERRORs, otherwise it could mess up the installation)
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P1320736 Kyocera KC_20B_H.JPG
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Re: Master 512 & Winchester disc 130...

Post by DutchAcorn » Thu Apr 16, 2020 6:41 pm

You could boot in ADFS: switch on and press break (not ctrl-break). That should get you a * prompt in ADFS.

Then go to the DOS directory:
*DIR DOS
And rename DRIVE_C to DRIVE_D
*RENAME DRIVE_C DRIVE_D

You can then setup a new bootable partition and access your original files on drive D:\

Out of curiosity; what happens if you now try to run COMMAND.COM from the C: drive? So boot from floppy, go to C: and enter:
COMMAND

That should boot DOS...
Paul

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Re: Master 512 & Winchester disc 130...

Post by Multiwizard » Thu Apr 16, 2020 8:03 pm

DutchAcorn wrote:
Thu Apr 16, 2020 6:41 pm
You could boot in ADFS: switch on and press break (not ctrl-break). That should get you a * prompt in ADFS.

Then go to the DOS directory:
*DIR DOS
And rename DRIVE_C to DRIVE_D
*RENAME DRIVE_C DRIVE_D

You can then setup a new bootable partition and access your original files on drive D:\

Out of curiosity; what happens if you now try to run COMMAND.COM from the C: drive? So boot from floppy, go to C: and enter:
COMMAND

That should boot DOS...
Hi Paul,

after typing COMMAND I get this, see first pic...

The second pic is my free space left...

Is it correct if I type:

*DOS
*RENAME DRIVE_C DRIVE _D

I still haven't a D: drive? (last pic)
Attachments
P1320741 COMMAND.JPG
P1320744.JPG
P1320745.JPG

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Re: Master 512 & Winchester disc 130...

Post by Multiwizard » Fri Apr 17, 2020 5:53 pm

Hi,

I found some used floppy's... :?

Now I would like to copy two (disk 2 & 3) of the three Master 512 GEM disks to these disks...


What would be the right copy command to copy the whole disk A:\ to disk B:\ ?... :-k

So all the Directories, subdirectories & Files from disk A:\ to disk B:\ ?

I did try:

C:\COPY A:\*.* B:\

and some other variations... :? (no succes)


Thanks in advance...

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