A new MENU system for MMC/Gotek

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tricky
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Re: A new MENU system for MMC/Gotek

Post by tricky »

What happens if you select a different disc with the buttons and then SHIFT+BREAK or *!BOOT? These should swap back to disc DSKA0000.SSD (00 the menu disc) and then run the menu.
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Re: A new MENU system for MMC/Gotek

Post by tricky »

Just checking, if you power it on without a stick, you get F-F and then pressing a key shows the three parts of the version number.
What version does it show?
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Re: A new MENU system for MMC/Gotek

Post by BobbinThreadbare »

Thanks for getting back to me so quickly.

Answering questions from yesterday and today:

I made no changes to ff.cfg - I just unzipped the archive on my PC and copied everything over to the USB stick. I'll try a different stick and firmware version when I get a chance.

For reference this is the contents of ff.cfg:

interface = shugart
host = acorn
index-suppression = no
head-settle-ms = 4
image-on-startup = static
nav-mode = indexed
extend-image = no

If I select another disk and boot it does reset to 000 but it doesn't run the menu automatically - it boots, runs the track number (?) up to 254 (?) very quickly, then up to 80 or so, then up to 254 again (lots of clicks from the piezo!) then resets to disk 000. I have to press shift break again to get it to load the menu once it has reset to 000, otherwise it just hangs at the boot screen.

Without a USB stick I get 2.13 (no 3rd number). The gotek I'm using has a segment display but I have another one with an LCD I can try later if it's going to give better diagnostic info. I can also try it as a counter-point as both goteks were from different retailers (though they could still be from the same factory in China!).

My model B has DFS 0.9h and OS 1.2 if that makes a difference.
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Re: A new MENU system for MMC/Gotek

Post by tricky »

Actually, I have seen disctoolkit or discaid or something like that block the meta data access, probably because it accesses out of range tracks.
What other ROMs do you have if any?
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Re: A new MENU system for MMC/Gotek

Post by tricky »

I have finally tidied things up a bit and here is the windows program that I use to make my menus and sample files to use with it.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/nieem3wsyxq5q ... s.zip?dl=0 no SSDs included, no login required.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/we2h5zue0uoil ... s.zip?dl=0 with SSDs downloaded from bbcmicro.co.uk, no login required.

Updated https://www.dropbox.com/s/ae5tf295cb8cm ... u.zip?dl=0 BuildTrickyMenu.exe.

There is a run.bat that will run with the command line that I use and build both a MMC file BEEB.MMB and a set of files for the GOTEK in the directory GOTEK.

The only command line arguments supported are -commercial_only which will exclude all .SSDs not marked as commercial and file names of files specifying which .SSDs should be in the menu.
These files can be .csv and I think came from an excel file of bbcmicro discs:

Code: Select all

Id,Parent,Disc,title article,title,publisher,filename,Commercial,genre,genre2,year,author,save,joystick,Compilation,series/no,playersmin,playersmax,hardware,electron,version,A,B,M,Notes
1,,DISC001,,Banana Man,MRM Software,Disc001-BananaMan.ssd,R,Maze,,1983,Mike Goldberg,,,,,1,1,,,,N,Y,,
2,,DISC001,,Bug Blaster,Alligata,Disc001-BugBlaster.ssd,R,Shooter (Gallery),Centipede,1983,Steve Evans,,,,,1,1,,,,N,Y,,
Or .html which it expects to be the "all games" page from bbcmicro (forgot the URL):

Code: Select all

<!DOCTYPE html>
<html lang="en">
<head>
 <meta charset="utf-8">
 <meta name="robots" content="noindex">
</head>
<body>
<table><tr>
<th>Id</th><th>Parent</th><th>Disc</th><th>title article</th><th>title</th><th>publisher</th><th>filename</th><th>Commercial</th><th>genre</th><th>genre2</th><th>year</th><th>author</th><th>save</th><th>joystick</th><th>Compilation</th><th>series/no</th><th>playersmin</th><th>playersmax</th><th>hardware</th><th>electron</th><th>version</th><th>A</th><th>B</th><th>M</th><th>Notes</th></tr><tr><td>1</td><td></td><td>DISC001</td><td></td><td>Banana Man</td><td>MRM Software</td><td>Disc001-BananaMan.ssd</td><td>R</td><td>Maze</td><td></td><td>1983</td><td>Mike Goldberg</td><td></td><td></td><td></td><td></td><td>1</td><td>1</td><td></td><td></td><td></td><td>N</td><td>Y</td><td></td><td></td></tr>
<tr><td>2</td><td></td><td>DISC001</td><td></td><td>Bug Blaster</td><td>Alligata</td><td>Disc001-BugBlaster.ssd</td><td>R</td><td>Shooter (Gallery)</td><td>Centipede</td><td>1983</td><td>Steve Evans</td><td></td><td></td><td>Fistful Of Fun</td><td></td><td>1</td><td>1</td><td></td><td></td><td></td><td>N</td><td>Y</td><td>0</td><td></td></tr>
If the file has neither of the extensions, it tries to parse it as a page from bbcmicro.co.uk (I think!).

After run.bat with all the SSDs, you should have a folder like:

Code: Select all

14/03/2020  11:02    <DIR>          .
14/03/2020  11:02    <DIR>          ..
26/11/2018  14:02           702,680 bbcmicro.csv
14/03/2020  11:02       104,660,992 BEEB.MMB
01/08/2018  17:37           187,392 beebasm.exe
14/03/2020  11:02               116 build_menu.asm
01/03/2020  14:04             2,573 favourites.csv
14/03/2020  11:01    <DIR>          GAMEIMG
14/03/2020  11:02    <DIR>          GOTEK
14/03/2020  11:02            22,272 GOTEKMenu.ssd
14/03/2020  11:02            20,253 menu.bin
14/03/2020  11:02            21,760 MMCMenu.ssd
29/01/2019  19:41         1,517,811 ss.php.html
14/03/2020  10:49            12,690 TrickyMenu.asm
              10 File(s)    107,148,539 bytes
beebasm and its license can be found here.

I think discs in GAMEIMG\DISCS\0 are considdered "favourites" and go on the first page before all others.
If using the .csv (and maybe the others) putting dont_reorder_disc in the notes section will put the disc on its own without reordering the contents (required for discs that access files by sector number eg POP).

There are probably load of other bits, but that is all I can remember for now!

Copyright (c) 2020 Richard Broadhurst

You may use or change this software however you like, except that neither it nor
the menus created by it may be sold or form part of a sale without my permission.

THE SOFTWARE IS PROVIDED "AS IS", WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND, EXPRESS OR
IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY,
FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND NONINFRINGEMENT. IN NO EVENT SHALL THE
AUTHORS OR COPYRIGHT HOLDERS BE LIABLE FOR ANY CLAIM, DAMAGES OR OTHER
LIABILITY, WHETHER IN AN ACTION OF CONTRACT, TORT OR OTHERWISE, ARISING FROM,
OUT OF OR IN CONNECTION WITH THE SOFTWARE OR THE USE OR OTHER DEALINGS IN THE
SOFTWARE.
Last edited by tricky on Sun Oct 04, 2020 1:07 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: A new MENU system for MMC/Gotek

Post by tricky »

Updated GOTEK.zip and BEEB.zip linked from the first post, Scramble bug fix and GOTEK.zip includes a .SSD with my @din, @dboot and @boot0 load and run from anywhere programs (act like MMC @din and @dboot).
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Re: A new MENU system for MMC/Gotek

Post by stuslayer »

Hi Tricky,

Just trying this out with my Gotek. I have the IFEL RAMROM board installed, running a Gotek off WF DFS 1.54T (1772). Menu loads up as expected. I went to load Imogen (pressed Return on the menu entry, get the EXEC message, then 'file not found', and have to BREAK to get back to the Beeb startup screen. Any ideas what I'm doing wrong?
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Re: A new MENU system for MMC/Gotek

Post by stuslayer »

stuslayer wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 9:55 pm
Hi Tricky,

Just trying this out with my Gotek. I have the IFEL RAMROM board installed, running a Gotek off WF DFS 1.54T (1772). Menu loads up as expected. I went to load Imogen (pressed Return on the menu entry, get the EXEC message, then 'file not found', and have to BREAK to get back to the Beeb startup screen. Any ideas what I'm doing wrong?
Anyone got any knowledge/experience on this? I am a total noob when it comes to anything on my Beeb...
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Re: A new MENU system for MMC/Gotek

Post by tricky »

Sorry, I don't think I have a working IFEL board, nor a beeb that I can put the watford dfs in.
Do you definitely have Flash Floppy and if so, which version?
First thing, does your GOTEK have a FlashFloppy from the time since my original first post?
I think that it lists the disk number and the exec file __XXX__.
Has your USB storage got my FF.CFG and the disc number that it is looking for and has that disc got the exec file on it.
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Re: A new MENU system for MMC/Gotek

Post by stuslayer »

tricky wrote:
Sat May 16, 2020 8:17 pm
Sorry, I don't think I have a working IFEL board, nor a beeb that I can put the watford dfs in.
Do you definitely have Flash Floppy and if so, which version?
First thing, does your GOTEK have a FlashFloppy from the time since my original first post?
I think that it lists the disk number and the exec file __XXX__.
Has your USB storage got my FF.CFG and the disc number that it is looking for and has that disc got the exec file on it.
Hi Tricky

I have a Gotek running FlashFloppy v2.13. I copied the contents of your GOTEK.zip from your Dropbox as instructed and extracted to my USB Stick. The menu loads as expected. Itried Imogen first and got nowhere with it, as described above.

I then tried AstroBlaster - this appeared to load, and as I have the IFEL RAMROM board installed, I assume the Speech section saw sideways ram and I heard the speech intro - then it went haywire and crashed, I CTRL-Breaked out and was left with a machine that thought it had 16K and BASIC had vanished! The BASIC is on the IFEL board. Luckily for me there is a recovery option built into the board, that reenables sockets 14 and 15 on the motherboard, so I was able to recover back to a normal state. When I did so I realised that a couple of the flash ROM slots had been trampled on by the game. I've recovered these back to their original state now.

I suspect the two issues are not related i.e. the lack of file found on the Imogen disc has nothing to do with the AstroBlaster crash. However' as a beginner in terms of how the Beeb OS works and what you can/can't do, it was definitely a learning curve for me!

I take it from the above that the menu system works as expected where you are? I wondered if maybe I have an old version or if it's the case it isn't tested in my scenario, or I have my board and Gotek configured strangely, but I'm sure I followed the instructions.
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Re: A new MENU system for MMC/Gotek

Post by tricky »

The zip is updated, so it is always the same link.
I think that these two issues are unrelated, astroblaster is on disc 0, so if changing disc fails (as I expect) then the first few games will still work.
There was a timing issue with astroblaster initialisation that I thought that I had fixed where if the ship gives a little wiggle when you first see it, press escape as it will lock up if you start a game.
My games should be exited with ESCAPE (if supported) as this will do a power on type reset. This is needed as I have used everything and there is no way to exit cleanly. If you BREAK out, I can't reset and the OS will be left confused.
Astroblaster does load its sound as sideways ROMs, but they should be well behaved, that is not stop the beeb booting cleanly and even add *help and *commands for playing samples.
I've just realised that I left the tricky menu zip on the first post, was it this or the gotek.zip from dropbox, it should be the dropbox one. I've now deleted the attachment to avoid confusion.
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Re: A new MENU system for MMC/Gotek

Post by stuslayer »

Hi,

It was the dropbox menu system I used. I don't know what happened with AstroBlaster, I may try again to see if I can replicate the issue, but it will be a day or two before I can do it thanks to real life! Your explanation makes sense, in that this confusion is what I saw with the machine, which is a relief to read as I had just had it repaired for some flakiness, I was a little worried that something had been missed!

Is there a way to load the discs without using the menu i.e. find the relevant .ssd for say Imogen, and try and run it directly?
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Re: A new MENU system for MMC/Gotek

Post by tricky »

When you choose the menu item, it should show:
*DIN 123
*EXEC __ABC__
To run it manually, select disc 123, then *EXEC __ABC__ (underscores not minuses, they appear mid-line in MODE 7)
One way to check if the disc navigation is working is to select and disc other than 000 and then *!BOOT (or even */!BOOT - same in this case)
It is possible that backwards compatibility has been broken, as I haven't upgraded since 0.13 I think.
I don't have any GOTEK beebs available at the moment.
Does anyone else with FlashFloppy v2.13 have my menu working.
Does anyone else with WF DFS 1.54T (1772) have my menu working.
I think DiscDoctor or something like that stops it from working, what do you have on the IFEL board?
The communication with the GOTEK uses sector 254, so any DFS or UTIL that limits this to available sectors will stop it working.
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Re: A new MENU system for MMC/Gotek

Post by stuslayer »

I've got ADT in there, that might be an issue perhaps?
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Re: A new MENU system for MMC/Gotek

Post by tricky »

Could be, trying to protect the drive maybe.

Is there a rom manager to turn it off?
It can be done easily from basic, but I have forgotten which address to poke.

PS I can't remember if it is sector or track 254.
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Re: A new MENU system for MMC/Gotek

Post by Adam James »

tricky wrote:
Thu Nov 22, 2018 10:12 pm
I've started work on a new menu system for the beeb, the idea was to hopefully make it easier to add and remove games than the Stairway to Hell archive, whilst still keeping the great functionality and also supporting GOTEKs using FlashFloppy (once the relevant FF update is complete).
Just installed this now on my Gotek drive. Excellent stuff, thank you.

But never mind the menu system, I just had an amazing experience. I tried space invaders and thought it was the best version I've played on the BBC. Then frogger, same thoughts - I'd been underwhelmed with other versions I'd found. Then centipede. Then scramble. And then I was shocked to find myself playing Phoenix while wondering if somebody had put some arcade chips inside my BBC. Finally I realised the author of all of them was you. I'm so glad you put them at the start of the list so I know they exist!

You are a genius, thanks for your work, clearly they are labours of love and I will be having great fun with them:)
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Re: A new MENU system for MMC/Gotek

Post by tricky »

Thanks you,
officially they are at the front because I use them to show what a beeb can do at the shows I take my machines to, along with The Bitshifters' Prince of Persia (Master only) and Stunt Car racer (Master or Compact). Unofficially, it's my menu and I like having my games first :oops:
I have upgraded the shooting and alien explosion sounds on the latest Space Invaders, but I haven't updated the menu, I was waiting for Moon Patrol or another new game from someone else and I might even finish off making it easily user configurable at some point.
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Re: A new MENU system for MMC/Gotek

Post by sjo03 »

First of all, thank you so much for the menu system. Got it running beautifully on my master 128 + gotek.
Any change you could share the source of the buildtrickymenu (c++) and or the beeb 6502 menu (the menu.bin which is included from build_menu.asm.

Want to see how to add disks myself in other catagories outside the games archive from bbbmicro.co.uk (thinking about roms, graphics, education). Not sure if I will get far, I am python and javascript guy not c++ and my 6502 is dormant since the '80s, but would love to have a look at it. No problem if you prefer not to ofcourse.

If I do get somewhere, I will obviously share.
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Re: A new MENU system for MMC/Gotek

Post by tricky »

The menu is created from a .CSV, so no C++ skills required but the build process is rather convoluted and I still haven't got around to packaging it.
Basically, any .ssd that runs from a !BOOT text file can be added and should work. It may need a catalogue entry spare, I can't remember.
I will have another go at tidying it up, but I really need to embed beebasm as that gets run a couple of times.
sjo03 wrote:
Wed Aug 05, 2020 5:31 pm
First of all, thank you so much for the menu system. Got it running beautifully on my master 128 + gotek.
Any change you could share the source of the buildtrickymenu (c++) and or the beeb 6502 menu (the menu.bin which is included from build_menu.asm.

Want to see how to add disks myself in other catagories outside the games archive from bbbmicro.co.uk (thinking about roms, graphics, education). Not sure if I will get far, I am python and javascript guy not c++ and my 6502 is dormant since the '80s, but would love to have a look at it. No problem if you prefer not to ofcourse.

If I do get somewhere, I will obviously share.
Sorry, I misunderstood.
My C++ code is really messy with lots of "just get it working" code to get it released on the same day that Flash Floppy added support for communicating with the GGOTEK.

You don't need to change any code to add games, just add another line in the bbcmicro.csv file or start a new one and just add what you want.
run BuildTrickyMenu my_ssds.csv and away you go.
You can have many .cvs files if you want to build libraries and combine them in different ways.

The entry name is title article+" "+title
Extra description is publisher if there is one and author if not
The menu is sorted by title with entries where Id=0 first (other Ids are only used for SSD directories)
.SSD is read from "gameimg/discs/"+Id+"/"+filename
If Notes contains the text "dont_reorder_disc" then the disc will be copied as is, except !BOOT will be replaced, this is necessary for some games e.g. Prince Of Persia and can also be used to leave room on a disc for save games.

The Extra description is always used if there is space in memory, only on duplicate titles if memory is short, or not used at all if there is not enough memory.

Only entries with Commercial="R" will be included if the command line option -commercial_only is used.

Let me know if you have any issues.
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Re: A new MENU system for MMC/Gotek

Post by sjo03 »

Thank you for the explanation - got extra disks added.

Not completely ideal, but great for now!
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Re: A new MENU system for MMC/Gotek

Post by tricky »

I do have a half finished GUI for it that is half MMB/folder explorer for .SSD/.DSDs and half selection tool for building the menu.
I abandoned it as there are good .SSD/.DSD file explorers out there and EXCEL/your favourite spreadsheet is far better at editing .CSVs.
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Re: A new MENU system for MMC/Gotek

Post by lordoftime79 »

I cant get this working right - I have the problem where most of the games say something about DIN when I select them? what am I doing wrong? the ones at the start of the list seem to work ok
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Re: A new MENU system for MMC/Gotek

Post by tricky »

If it is only the first 4 or so, either you don't have Flash Floppy firmware, or it is very old, either way updating ti should fix it - unless it has beeb broken!
The other alternative is that you are using the wrong settings, does the stick still have the FF.CFG that came with the zip? Again, these options may have changed, but I doubt it.

PS Or there are some ROMs that can block it. I think Disc Doctor can block it.
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Re: A new MENU system for MMC/Gotek

Post by lordoftime79 »

I updated it to the latest flash floppy firmware and the config file is exactly as I downloaded it - do the disk images need to be in a folder or the root? becasue when I un zip the files you supplied there is the menu file and a folder with the disks in I dragged them out of the folder to the root is this wrong maybe? Scratch that I just tried with the file in the folder and its exactly the same - also my BBC is not faulty... please help!
118995474_650414558920381_966375118532201918_n.jpg
118868132_1450747025111240_3403265247327432771_n.jpg
does anybody have a disk image of a working set up they can upload for me to just use win32diskimager and write it exactly as it to my USB stick? to rule out something I am doing?
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Re: A new MENU system for MMC/Gotek

Post by tricky »

Everything should go in the root.
POP is Master only, Stunt Car Racer is Master and Compact.
If you select a different disc with the GOTEK and then SHIFT-BREAK, does it go back to the menu?
Also, when it is like that, what disc number does the GOTEK display?
If it isn't 0, I can't think why it isn't working.
If you *., what is the disc title of the disc? I think it should match the first alphabetically game name(ish).
What does the gotek display between you pressing return on a game and getting to the * prompt?
What ROMs do you have in the machine?

PS I put the broken versions of High Noon, Mad Bomb and Nebulons in the ZIP, sorry.

PPS I can't remember if I put DIN (disc in) and DBOOT (disc boot) on the first disc, if I did could try *DIN 99 and see if there are any messages a bit more easily than via the menu.
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Re: A new MENU system for MMC/Gotek

Post by lordoftime79 »

The screenshot is how it turns on I didnt select POP its automatically highlighted *DIN 99 gives me a bad command - as for the roms I only have basic, the disc rom and Turbo MMC. Here is a screen shot of it and a picture of what the gotek is displaying.
118934924_639211013688915_4319625265939925886_n.jpg
118882600_319599566033951_1646763030764554288_n.jpg
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Re: A new MENU system for MMC/Gotek

Post by tricky »

Sorry, I jumbled too many questions together.
When you select a game that doesn't work, what does the gotek display from the time you press RETURN until the * prompt appears?
I haven't tried it with both DFS and an MMC ROM installed, but it doesn't try to detect the disc type, it is just which ZIP you have, it would probably be OK.

With both ROMS, I would expect PAGE is very high and I haven't tried this before.
Is the DFS further to the right than the MMC ROM (assuming it is a straight B)?
If not, I have certainly trampled on workspace that it probably needs, assuming that furthest right gets lowest memory.

I can't remember how to disable a ROM, but I seem to remember it is ?&DFn=&FF where n=slot 15:right down going left and press BREAK (or is it CTRL-BREAK?). This is to test without the MMC ROM, without having to physically remove it.
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Re: A new MENU system for MMC/Gotek

Post by lordoftime79 »

Nope it dosnt work with the PI tube thats whats tripping it up!!! so I am no better off [rude words removed] gonna box it up and not bother!
Last edited by danielj on Mon Sep 07, 2020 9:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Cleaning up language
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Re: A new MENU system for MMC/Gotek

Post by tricky »

I'm sorry we couldn't help you.
My guess would be bad connection on the tube and for the menu having both rooms in at once coupled with my blatant disregard for PAGE.
It is a shame that there are no physical ABUGs at the moment as I'm sure it would only take a few minutes to get to the bottom of this.
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Re: A new MENU system for MMC/Gotek

Post by danielj »

Truthfully, if you just want to play games, other than the Elite CoPro version which adds a few bells and whistles over the standard disc version, there is very little point in having a coprocessor attached to the thing.

d.
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