Pre built ADFS disk images

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dominicbeesley
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Pre built ADFS disk images

Post by dominicbeesley » Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:02 am

Are there any good pre-built ADFS hard disk images out there? Maybe something with some games that will run on a model B with ADFS?

I'm wanting something to test my new SCSI2 card and ADFS ports...I'm getting bored of the tunes on the BeebEm disc images.

D

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CMcDougall
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Re: Pre built ADFS disk images

Post by CMcDougall » Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:29 am

dominicbeesley wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:02 am
games that will run on a model B with ADFS?
:lol: :lol: :lol: =D>
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Re: Pre built ADFS disk images

Post by dominicbeesley » Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:09 pm

CMcDougall wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:29 am
dominicbeesley wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:02 am
games that will run on a model B with ADFS?
:lol: :lol: :lol: =D>
Well, it must be worth a try...

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danielj
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Re: Pre built ADFS disk images

Post by danielj » Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:31 pm

So, on the electron a few games were deliberately released to work with ADFS. Not so the beeb, you'll need to hack them to relocate in order to deal with the memory ADFS chews up for its workspace. I don't think anyone's been particularly exercised to do that?

d.

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Re: Pre built ADFS disk images

Post by marcusjambler » Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:35 pm

ADFS is master territory imho

RobC
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Re: Pre built ADFS disk images

Post by RobC » Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:40 pm

dominicbeesley wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 11:02 am
Are there any good pre-built ADFS hard disk images out there? Maybe something with some games that will run on a model B with ADFS?
Mark@Retroclinic includes some games with the hard drive image supplied with the DC. I've only used it with my Master though so don't know if they work with PAGE higher than E00. I can send you a dropbox link to my DC hard drive image if you want.
danielj wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:31 pm
So, on the electron a few games were deliberately released to work with ADFS. Not so the beeb, you'll need to hack them to relocate in order to deal with the memory ADFS chews up for its workspace. I don't think anyone's been particularly exercised to do that?
marcusjambler wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:35 pm
ADFS is master territory imho
There's always ADFSE00 which runs from sideways RAM. I have this installed along with DFSE00 in 32KB non-volatile RAMs in my B+s and the ADFS works with real SCSI hard drives.

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AndyF
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Re: Pre built ADFS disk images

Post by AndyF » Wed Aug 29, 2018 2:03 pm

Regarding the D.C the CD did contain three images IIRC (I do not have it to hand to check) one for the Master and possibly two for the B, although at least one for the B, the 'third' may of been for other systems where PAGE was erm 'elsewhere' or something else.

I'm sorry the above is quite vague :oops: but as I write this I have no way of checking it at the moment. The CD is not here I'm elsewhere today.

I do recall iirc the disk images were 512MB (expanded size) and you'd use CFRestore to put them back however as they were the files themselves they could be written out without issue or thrown into ADFS explorer no doubt.
Last edited by AndyF on Wed Aug 29, 2018 2:04 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Pre built ADFS disk images

Post by dominicbeesley » Thu Aug 30, 2018 9:44 am

Thanks lads,

I'd forgotten the Retroclinic files. Yes please Rob, a dropbox link would be helpful (I have no idea where my DataCentre CD ended up during the ongoing house moves). I might need to edit them down to fit on my 300MB HD!

I'm hoping (soonish) to have E00 versions of ADFS+SCSI2, using Mark's hacked version is probably a no-go for me at the moment. However, once I've got the ADFS sources into a more coherent state (I've got a load of bug fixes from Hoglet's GitHub to back-port into my combined source made from JGH's v1.5x and v1.3x sourcves) I should be able to get this together easily enough.

Anyway, I had "first light" from my setup last night. I used the BeebEm "scsi0.dat" file and could navigate the directories though not reliably...still its more than nowt.

On a side note, does anyone recall and decent sector editors for ADFS? I remember a few for DFS but not ADFS...if not that's another thing I'll have to write...

Thanks

D

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Re: Pre built ADFS disk images

Post by CMcDougall » Thu Aug 30, 2018 9:59 am

I still have my CD for dc, is this the dir needed ? :
dcCD.png
never used them, so don't know whats in them....
dominicbeesley wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 9:44 am
On a side note, does anyone recall and decent sector editors for ADFS? I remember a few for DFS but not ADFS...if not that's another thing I'll have to write..
I always use the rom image ADT, just use *DEX 0
this allows editing of sectors easy, really good to edit ADFS Cat so can copy protected (only *RUN) programs to DFS :D
Last edited by CMcDougall on Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:04 am, edited 1 time in total.
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lcww1
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Re: Pre built ADFS disk images

Post by lcww1 » Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:13 am

For reference, the ACP ADT ROM (various versions) is available from mdfs.net - http://mdfs.net/System/ROMs/DiskTools/

and the documentation can be found here - http://8bs.com/othrdnld/manuals/applications.shtml

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Re: Pre built ADFS disk images

Post by CMcDougall » Thu Aug 30, 2018 10:18 am

^best rom EVER made, in all my machines, and had v1.78 in my original beeb 8)

just reading more of the .txt file :
"
cf1gb_xxxx.dat is a test image you may load onto a compact flash containing games, utilities etc. You must use the correct size of flash, in this case 1GB. Other images on this CD are supplied untested and on a strictly as-is basis. Image prefix "v" is for the BBC Master, "b" is for the BBC Model B disk system and "t" is for the BBC Model B with no disk interface.
"
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Re: Pre built ADFS disk images

Post by Coeus » Thu Aug 30, 2018 12:36 pm

RobC wrote:
Wed Aug 29, 2018 12:40 pm
There's always ADFSE00 which runs from sideways RAM. I have this installed along with DFSE00 in 32KB non-volatile RAMs in my B+s and the ADFS works with real SCSI hard drives.
Is this another one that uses its own sideways RAM bank as workspace? if so, how does it get there in the first place? Load from DFS? Or does it have a an option to copy over from another ROM (like I added to MMFS)?

I have GitHub repo with a version of ADFS, based on the Master version, where you can locate the workspace low or high at compile time.

AFAIK you can run the hight workspace version with Chris Morley's OS RAM modules.

BITD Solidisk had a version where you could configure the number of simultaneous open files, and therefore the buffer spaced used by these. The default was one, IIRC, which put PAGE at &1900 just like DFS and for many programs this was quite sufficient.
Last edited by Coeus on Thu Aug 30, 2018 12:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Pre built ADFS disk images

Post by RobC » Thu Aug 30, 2018 2:36 pm

dominicbeesley wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 9:44 am
Yes please Rob, a dropbox link would be helpful
I'll PM you the link.
Coeus wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 12:36 pm
Is this another one that uses its own sideways RAM bank as workspace?
Yes.
Coeus wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 12:36 pm
if so, how does it get there in the first place? Load from DFS?
That's one option. I use DS1230s and just programmed them before fitting in the B+s.

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Re: Pre built ADFS disk images

Post by jgharston » Thu Aug 30, 2018 9:05 pm

Have just MkImg'd this up from my MDFS. Haven't tested this 'cos you can't mount hard disk images with BeebEm, you have to fiddle around renaming image files, (and ADFS Explorer explodes), but give it a go: http://mdfs.net/temp/GAMES.ADL

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dominicbeesley
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Re: Pre built ADFS disk images

Post by dominicbeesley » Fri Aug 31, 2018 10:33 am

Thanks Rob, JGH, those images look a bit more interesting!

I've got ADFS+SCSI2 almost working (I just need to finish off partial sector transfers and un-break whatever it was I borked before I went to the pub yesterday).

Unfortunately my 53c810 SCSI adaptor for my linux box died (giving lots of DMA errors in dmesg) so I need to work out another way of getting the images from my PC onto the disk... does USBToDisk work on a Model B with DataCentre? If not I should be able to throw something together that slurps an image from HostFS and OSWORD 72's it to the disk though it might be slow with all that filesystem switching.

Maybe I'll write something that goes straight to the hardware...all good fun!

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Re: Pre built ADFS disk images

Post by dominicbeesley » Fri Aug 31, 2018 10:58 am

Coeus wrote:
Thu Aug 30, 2018 12:36 pm
I have GitHub repo with a version of ADFS, based on the Master version, where you can locate the workspace low or high at compile time.
Aha, another version to try and combine in...I'll look at this with interest. I'm seriously considering for the SCSI2 version having 2 ROMs a SCSI rom - which would have most of the data transfer stuff in it and maybe even the floppy drivers plus tape streamer, transfer utils etc and ADFS cut down to just the file-system. That might free up enough space to have it do a SWRAM workspace version...or maybe not.

I might look at doing the same for SASI, IDE and MMC versions too that should make it possible to reinstate the 256 byte tube transfers into the IDE+TUBE reads and writes which should double the speed, which might be more widely useful for people running copros?

D

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Re: Pre built ADFS disk images

Post by Coeus » Fri Aug 31, 2018 2:59 pm

dominicbeesley wrote:
Fri Aug 31, 2018 10:58 am
Aha, another version to try and combine in...
Mine was forked from Hoglet's and that already contains conditional compilation for IDE/SCSI and a couple of versions of SD card.

What's your target for the combined version? Isn't DFS on most of the platforms short of 16K so you could make a DFS/ADFS ROM pair where ADFS drivers overflow into the end of the DFS ROM. I'd check about the master, though, as that has some OS code in other ROMs - mainly the terminal ROM but I think there is at least one other too. In fact I suspect the terminal ROM is actually a freebie to give an apparent reason for ROM 15 being there when it is mostly OS code.

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Re: Pre built ADFS disk images

Post by dominicbeesley » Sat Sep 01, 2018 10:07 pm

Yes, it looks like, as usual, Hoglet had done the work ahead of me before I realised, nowt like reinventing the wheel for educational purposes.

It might be good to get the faster 256 byte TUBE transfers back in for IDE, I'm not sure how many people use copros with CF cards and the like but I should think in DOS, Linux, Panos having data transfers at roughly double the speed would be nice!

I'd not really got a target I just wanted the source for a proper [i.e. real disc hardware with directories] filing system to port to the 6809 system...as usual I then ended up going off at a tangent. Currently on the 6809 I use either HostFS over Myelin USB serial which is great or a hacked together bastard love child of MMFS and the Vinculum usb on the DataCentre with MMBEEB on a USB stick instead of a SD card.

I'm busy decorating (when not doing this) but I've had a few hours spare. I transferred JGH's image over: I hacked together my own image transfer using the Myelin serial / usb card (which is quite quick and reliable). However, when I tried the same with Rob's much larger image it got out of sync somewhere and all the data was shifted by one byte!

So, today I've thrown together a simple XMODEM thing using the Myelin serial card on one end and Perl at the other. It's currently spitting the data across at ~8k per second so it should take around 9 hours to do the full 256Mb image! It would probably benefit from some sort of RLL compression!

...currently on block &015B80 out of &100000, what's the betting as soon as I go to bed it will fall over!

When writing this I discovered my deliberate design mistake. I'd hoped to somehow use NMI in data transfers from the SCSI but I'd not thought through the fact that the next NMI will occur ~ 100ns after the previous one has been cleared. This then calls straight into the NMI routine...not good the stack soon runs out!. So either I'll need to abandon the NMI idea altogether which breaks my DMA hopes [ the DMA controller can hijack NMI for fast transfers], do some funky NMI coding, which will slow things down, or possibly, add some sort of slow-down circuit or, most probably, the ability to disable NMI's and instead do polled "pseudo dma" when the DMA's not present. That's what I'm doing now - but rather than turning off NMI's nicely I've bent up a pin...

Also, I think I uncovered a bug in ADT (I'm using v174 from mdfs.net, the links for higher versions are broken). Using *DEX it seems to put the control block for OSWORD 72 at &0070 onwards but doesn't clear 7A, which gets sent to the SCSI as the control byte and it poos its pants if it's non-zero. Either with a sensible error or sometimes goes off and tries to do fancy disconnects. Does anyone know if this is fixed in later versions before I start hacking...

Here's the current desk-sprawl...
20180901_223507-s.jpg
20180901_223500-s.jpg
20180901_223443-s.jpg
D

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Re: Pre built ADFS disk images

Post by jgharston » Sun Sep 02, 2018 11:41 am

dominicbeesley wrote:
Fri Aug 31, 2018 10:33 am
Unfortunately my 53c810 SCSI adaptor for my linux box died (giving lots of DMA errors in dmesg) so I need to work out another way of getting the images from my PC onto the disk... does USBToDisk work on a Model B with DataCentre? If not I should be able to throw something together that slurps an image from HostFS and OSWORD 72's it to the disk though it might be slow with all that filesystem switching.
FileToDisk should do it.
CH."FileToDisk"
Source image file: -HOSTFS-:H.DiskImgs.GAMES/ADL
Dest. filing system: ADFS
Dest. drive: 0
Number of sectors: (&200000)
This is a hard drive - continue? YES
Reading 000000+43 etc etc

Code: Select all

$ bbcbasic
PDP11 BBC BASIC IV Version 0.25
(C) Copyright J.G.Harston 1989,2005-2015
>_

dominicbeesley
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Re: Pre built ADFS disk images

Post by dominicbeesley » Sun Sep 02, 2018 1:26 pm

Thanks JGH, Does that work on a model B? I thought that all the -FS-.* stuff only worked on MOS >3.20?

I can't seem to get anything to work that swaps the FS context until after the first few sectors are written correctly so its a bit chicken and egg. My first attempt tried to use OSWORD &72 but that failed on the first call with Bad FS Map...

Anyway in the end the XMODEM thing seems to have worked....and quite a bit faster than would have been the case with HostFS as it uses block rather than byte handshaking. Also I the disk access code could be optimised a lot as it doesn't need to do all the checking for TUBE etc.

I've now got to get BGET/BPUT type stuff to work as that uses yet another access method for accessing the hard disk.]

I think I'm going to rationalise ADFS to use the OSWORD 72 interface (or at least a direct internal call to it) for all accesses and hopefully then I can test it in earnest. Once that is done it should be easier to abstract out the disk access routines. Before that I'll try and do a survey of all the various ADFS forks around the place and gather them together into a single source which I'll publish. Then I may retire that and start a new _clean_ or at least cleaner version with hardware and filing system more clearly split.

Before I start I have so far found:

JGH v1.50 and v1.30 which I've merged in to a single source
Hoglet's Git which I will go through and merge bugfixes into the above
Coeus Git - ditto
Mark Haysman E00 version - I suspect there is no source for this, I'll probably leave off trying to do a SWRAM version until I've split HW/FS into separate.
Chris Morley OS RAM version - anyone got a working setup using this? I'd be interested in how this works. My blitter / dma board does a similar SWMOS and/or Hazel thing but the OS1.20 ROM is not quite ready for Hazeling!


D

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Re: Pre built ADFS disk images

Post by jgharston » Sun Sep 02, 2018 3:14 pm

dominicbeesley wrote:
Sun Sep 02, 2018 1:26 pm
Thanks JGH, Does that work on a model B? I thought that all the -FS-.* stuff only worked on MOS >3.20?
Ok then:
LOAD "FileToDisk"
*HOSTFS
RUN
Source image file: :H.DiskImgs.GAMES/ADL
Dest. filing system: ADFS
Dest. drive: 0
Number of sectors: (&200000)
This is a hard drive - continue? YES
Reading 000000+43 etc etc


I'll get around to adding manual implementation of -fs- at some point, as in TreeCopy.
dominicbeesley wrote:I can't seem to get anything to work that swaps the FS context until after the first few sectors are written correctly so its a bit chicken and egg. My first attempt tried to use OSWORD &72 but that failed on the first call with Bad FS Map...
Yes, that's an annoyance of ADFS. When you select a disk ADFS tries to MOUNT it if it hasn't been seen, resulting in Bad Map if it's an unformatted disk. With FileToDisk I just give up and RUN it twice and that seems to work. I haven't quite worked out what bodges and workaround to bodge in to get past it programatically.

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$ bbcbasic
PDP11 BBC BASIC IV Version 0.25
(C) Copyright J.G.Harston 1989,2005-2015
>_

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