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Movie Maker Slippery Slug

Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2018 8:02 pm
by pixelblip
Hi there
Does anyone have a manual for Movie Maker Slippery Slugg Software please? If you do please could you send me a message. I can't figure it out after 30 years!
Thanks

Re: Movie Maker Slippery Slug

Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:12 am
by pixelblip
Yeh a long shot but if the authors (of Slippery Slug who were in Bath) are still out there and can get in touch I'd be grateful. I've worked out some keys but don't know how to fast forward or rewind through the movie.

I did some ok animation on this back in the day, it was really fun

Re: Movie Maker Slippery Slug

Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 7:42 am
by richardtoohey
Is it the program referred to in here?

https://archive.org/stream/AcornUser046 ... 6_djvu.txt

Is it on an SSD/ROM ... sure someone could find the keys (either by trying everything or some reverse engineering ...)

Re: Movie Maker Slippery Slug

Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:23 am
by pixelblip
Hi Richard
That is the one.
I got some of the keys but some are right puzzlers. I can only find the Roms and no disks on the internet.
I am just pressing all the keys!

It's a shame as there are hardly any telext animation packages ( that I can find ) .......

Re: Movie Maker Slippery Slug

Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:27 am
by pixelblip
It's like using Etch a Sketch!

Re: Movie Maker Slippery Slug

Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 9:49 am
by pixelblip
So far I can move stuff around. If you Press SHIFT and F8 you get a * command prompt ( but of course HELP does nothing :lol: ).
So I wonder what the commands are ( as it seems it's not all hotkeys).
If anyone has the manual for this in their collection please can you dig it out........thanks

Re: Movie Maker Slippery Slug

Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:22 am
by pixelblip
I just found a review of it in Dec 86 Acorn User by Phil Wilkes.
He mentions there are a number of commands and no help page! Oh joy!

There is a disk that goes with it......with animations on. If anyone has seen this and can upload it please holla! I reckon I could do some great animations with it.
Back in the day I did a Trapdoor Berk animation..............maybe I will go back and do it again if I can get the manual!

Re: Movie Maker Slippery Slug

Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:24 am
by pixelblip
I remember the review so well..........it was so exciting to be able to do any animation on a BBC let along a 20 minute movie! :lol:

Re: Movie Maker Slippery Slug

Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:25 pm
by richardtoohey
And where are the ROMs? :?: They could be loaded into an emulator and we can all have some fun trying to work it out. :D

The review does say single key presses, function keys with Shift & Control, and * commands, and there being different modes, so maybe you have to be in the right mode as well. Mode as in functional/operational mode, not graphics mode.

Re: Movie Maker Slippery Slug

Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:30 pm
by CMcDougall

Re: Movie Maker Slippery Slug

Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:36 pm
by lurkio
richardtoohey wrote:And where are the ROMs?
Possibly here?:
:?:

Re: Movie Maker Slippery Slug

Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:42 pm
by richardtoohey
Thanks, I'll see if I can get them to go ... :D

EDIT: Didn't get far, clicking on either of them gives a 404 ... :(

EDIT: But removing the hypen from the file name gives me a downloadable file (for both of them), so let's try again ... :)

Re: Movie Maker Slippery Slug

Posted: Fri Mar 16, 2018 10:57 pm
by richardtoohey
mmaker.jpg
Movie Maker
And attached the ROM files to save some grief.

*HELP shows this - am I looking at the right thing here, same text from the two ROMs as you? :?:
mmaker2.jpg
Movie Maker *HELP
(Hmmm, going to be "fun" in an emulator when the window manager grabs key-strokes like Ctrl-F2 and so on! ](*,))

Re: Movie Maker Slippery Slug

Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 12:00 am
by richardtoohey
Output from strings command ... might be some clues ...

Code: Select all

$ strings MOVIEA100                                                                                                                          
MOVIE MAKER A
 1.0
(C) Slippery Slug 1986
h`MM
tuuuuuuvvvvvvvwwwwwwxxxxx
qqqqqqqrrrrrrsssssssttttt
|||||||}}}}}}~~~~~~~
XEntry name?
Clear pad
Screen pad
Entry number
Wrong type
Save entry
Define shape
Move
Filename?
TYPE TEXT
Move to
NEW POSITION
Enter
SCREEN MOVE
 (Y or N)
flipped
Press any key to continue
Active cycle
Move all commands in segment starting   at frame 
Width?
Height?
ROM B?
This one
No more static shapes
Amend shape
Frame
Clear segment 
Duplicate
No more Programmed shapes
New segment
No number given
Silly number
Not found
Program
Move screen
Delete duplicates first
Programmed shape
Delete Program first
Delete entry
Segment room
Memory full
Bad Data!
Pad empty
No more messages
No more segments
Message number 
Message not defined
Delete message nr
(Y or N)?
PAUSE
Delete cycle nr 
ALL program data
WILL BE LOST.
Cycle
Foreground (f key)
Back
Base position?
Amend 
Bad command
Not recognised
Amend  cycle
Define cycle
No more cycles
Frame full
No more frames
Bad parameter
Cycle not defined
Number too big
Slippery Slug
1986
 1 ] Load and run movie
 2 ] Load entire memory
 3 ] Save entire memory
 4 ] Load single entry
 5 ] Save present frame
6 ] Print memory contents
ESCAPE ] Screen pad
 Pick a number
             
++{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{q0   
_   0     0   
~t_|4pz_ 0pp up 
j}p~5<44 447`!
"'j5uzjf =$ => 
  j5`j555*: 57! 
o  *%%j* %//%5"d 
 *% *%`! ! !```
{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{s!
Gh!Aj%=44w_7
Red T
Green T
Yellow T
Blue T
Magenta T
Cyan T
White T
Flashing
Steady
text
Normal ht
Double ht
DEL CTRLchar
LE foreground
RED G
GREEN G
YELLOW G
BLUE G
MAGENTA G
CYAN G
WHITE G
Conceal disp.
Continuous G
Separate G
Black backgnd
New backgnd
Hold G
Release G
`JJH
.L3{
QhH$Q
8h`H
`$)p
%+1d
06<B
#$,P
`$)p
`$)p
`$)p
Jjjj
#$*p
-{`I 
)H      @
K` q
Hhh`
$*pC
QJJJJ
?MM_?
\H e
hH)p
JJJJ
hhhh`
I` C
$*pN
hH #
\hH 
h`hH
\hH 
\hH 
**`8`
**`8`
)H      @
Q)*J
8` C
$*p7 C
!y0     )
!y)x

$ strings MOVIEB110  
MOVIE MAKER B
 1.1
(C) Slippery Slug 1986
h`?MM_?H
Program  
Shape    
Dup shape
Empty
Bad data
Extension data
(not found)
SUBTITLE
HOLD
CONTINUE
FINISH
DEFINE
START
ROTATE
CYCLE
STOP
FOLLOW
FIND
CENTRE
MESSAGE
RESET
AMEND
PROGRAM
REMEMBER
CLOCK
SEEK
FRAME
SEGMENT
COLOUR
MOVE
BUBBLE
SCREEN
LIST
JUMP
SLUG
FLIP
FRONT
REVEAL
CONCEAL
MERGE
COVER
PREVIOUS
NEXT
JOIN
CLEAR
DUPLICATE
-L3{
T&S*
h8`h
)#c/
h$)0
h`H 
h`H g
Q`8 
JJJJ
HHhh
`H x
`H B
hH b
JJJJ
Q$*0
$*0#
`$*0
JJJJ
`H ~
th8 }
hhhh 
(hh`
SheT
T$R0
s8` 
hhhhhhh
*`H g
h(`h
h(`H
hH ;
UfUfTfS
*{` 
S&T*
8` ~
hh8`
\hH 
HhH

Re: Movie Maker Slippery Slug

Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 2:44 am
by Pernod
pixelblip wrote:There is a disk that goes with it......with animations on. If anyone has seen this and can upload it please holla! I reckon I could do some great animations with it.
I'm sure you've already seen them from viewtopic.php?f=32&t=5802&p=108594#p54096. There's the Intro and Demo movies on there.

The loader in +.MOVIE (DRIVE 2) is modified for my own SWR configuration, so just skip it with GOTO170.

Re: Movie Maker Slippery Slug

Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 9:26 am
by pixelblip
You have given me alot to go on......that strings command is very useful Richard - and the example movies will help me alot Pernod - thanks both of you.
I should be able to play around now! How exciting.

Re: Movie Maker Slippery Slug

Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 8:49 pm
by richardtoohey
Hope you have more luck than me! ](*,)

I could move a green blob around, and I could see that I was changing the attributes for each "cell" on the screen, but I couldn't get it to draw a line or place a point or anything much useful. Managed to find something that let me put text on the screen.

This might be down to the ancient version of Beeb-em I am using, I know Teletext isn't 100% right on it! So might try it on a real Master using SWRAM.

So if someone finds the manual then that would be VERY illuminating!

Re: Movie Maker Slippery Slug

Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:06 pm
by pixelblip
I've managed to get quite far Richard. To draw you press TAB and then Q to delete. C is big cursor.
You can define a shape with D then press Escape.
You can go to the shape and press P to program it.
You can then Press SHIFT F8 for a Star command and then type DEFINE CYCLE 1 and you can add frames to the shape by pressing F and going up a frame. When you have done that press ESCAPE. You can then make it move with *ROTATE 1 and move the cursor keys - it will move the shape and animate it. You can type *FRAME n to go to a specific frme.

I don't know if Movie Maker let's you draw lines.....I can't remember but I',m sure you can't ....just pixels.

What I can't do ( and I have been on this for 6 hours non stop and now have square eyes) is get the shape to loop as it's animating.
I have tried every command on the planet. Slippery Slug if you are out there please help! Arrgh! WIthout a manual and help files it is almost impossible. When you type *ROTATE 1 it just plays the animation of the shape once and then stops. How do you cycle it?????!!! I've tried LOOP / L - any command - arrgh!

Please everyone scour your collections for the manual before I end up in the loony bin! You will be rewarded with some really good animation! :D

Re: Movie Maker Slippery Slug

Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:10 pm
by richardtoohey
Sounds like you are making some good progress.

Can you make an SSD of what you've got so far and post that?

Then it's "just" :twisted: a question of figuring out how to make that cycle. Could try those animations from Pernod, but I don't know if they are usable in MM itself or a standalone finished "thing" that you can't reload into MM?

Worse case is searching the 32K of the combined ROMs looking for where it is checking for key presses/command input to see if any more clues there ...

Re: Movie Maker Slippery Slug

Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:13 pm
by pixelblip
I am currently at another house and for some reason Beeb Em won't let me create a disk ( it's on a mac ). I'll have to do it when I get back tomorrow if that's ok. Thanks for trying to help.
This one cycle command is the fly in the ointment.....it's going to break me if I don't find out how to do it!

PS the Movie Maker demo animations (which were very nostalgic watching them again - thanks Pernod) - they don't load in to Movie Maker. So you can't see inside them. There must have been an app to create standalone movie.

Re: Movie Maker Slippery Slug

Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 10:20 pm
by pixelblip
Richard I've managed to save the state of Beeb em ......
Please save this and rename the extension to .uef and see how you go.

To play the movie you press R.

Re: Movie Maker Slippery Slug

Posted: Sat Mar 17, 2018 11:54 pm
by richardtoohey
Tried that on my desktop machine (running old version of beeb-em) and beeb-em on Mac ... but they both show some Mode 7 graphics and then crash. Will dust off my Windows machine and see if the newer version of beeb-em is happier with the UEF. :-k

Re: Movie Maker Slippery Slug

Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 1:01 am
by richardtoohey
EDIT: Oops didn't notice your edited post above, so just repeating a lot of what you said, minus a lot more detail!

TAB is draw mode (don't need Q first).

Then D and define your blob (give it a name first). (Not entirely sure what you are meant to do with the four "handles"). Press Escape when done. Then P to program the movement. R to run through the movement.

So, starting from clean reset of Beeb-Em, *MM, press Esc for screen pad.

Press Tab (and mode changes from "up" to "D") and draw a box with the arrow keys; when the box is finished, press D for define and you get "Entry name?", enter BLOB and press Enter.

It says Define shape - the four corner handles are covering my small box so I just go escape, then P.

Screen says Program BLOB .... R=4 ... and at the top of the screen is a counter of 00000. Use the arrow keys to define the motions you want the shape to take; each key press will up the counter. I think it is taking each movement as additional to the previous one, so if you push up arrow 4 times, then in the movie it will move up 4 times.

Press Escape when done.

Then R to run.

Re: Movie Maker Slippery Slug

Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 1:12 am
by richardtoohey
pixelblip wrote:get the shape to loop as it's animating
What does this mean? Is it some sort of sub-animation? So there's the whole animated movie, and within that you want a shape to run through its own animation cycle?

And I don't get this:

You can go to the shape and press P to program it.
You can then Press SHIFT F8 for a Star command and then type DEFINE CYCLE 1


After I've programmed it with P, Shift+F8 gives me Flashing.

Or this:

I don't know if Movie Maker let's you draw lines.....I can't remember but I',m sure you can't ....just pixels.

TAB, and arrow keys - that draws a line, using shift+arrow key for diagonals. But suspect I've misunderstood you.

Re: Movie Maker Slippery Slug

Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 6:24 am
by pixelblip
Thats correct you can animate a character in the film and have it repeat on a loop cycle. But i cant make it loop. If you define a cycle with *. define cycle 1 then press p on the character to select it you can then type *rotate with the character name and it will cycle through a single loop of animation
You can draw pixels with tab but not lines.

Re: Movie Maker Slippery Slug

Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 6:45 am
by richardtoohey
pixelblip wrote:You can draw pixels with tab but not lines.
Sorry, I still don't get this? :-k

I push Tab, move the arrow keys, I'm drawing lines? Lines up & down, lines left & right, diagonal lines ...
lines.jpg

Re: Movie Maker Slippery Slug

Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 8:48 am
by pixelblip
Sorry for the misunderstanding. Its a pixel tool at the end of the day. Not a line tool like in a tradiontal paint package. You are drawing lines but not with a proper line tool...

Re: Movie Maker Slippery Slug

Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 9:38 am
by richardtoohey
Ahhhh :idea: (well more like penny dropping!) you mean like rubber-banding or where you say line start x,y and line end x,y.

I haven't been sitting here trying to use my mouse to draw a line in Movie Maker (running under Beeb-em) :^o :^o :^o

I was also asking about Shift-F8 after being in P mode ... Shift F8 for me selects Flashing, not * commands.

Re: Movie Maker Slippery Slug

Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 11:30 am
by pixelblip
I beg your pardon Richard. It was Shift and 8 ( Asterix ). Sorry to confuse you.
I am using "logical keyboard mapping'

Re: Movie Maker Slippery Slug

Posted: Sun Mar 18, 2018 3:20 pm
by pixelblip
So the quest is on to cycle an animatinon. *rotate 1 will cycle the animation just once only. Provided you have selcted the shape with P and then typed *define cycle 1. You then hit f to increment a frame. Esc to come out. If you type *rotate 1 after having selected the object again with P it plays 1 cycle of the animation. What the devil is the switch or command / hotkey to make that animation loop.......we might need some more brains on this to go into the rom and see if Sherlock can spot it!

You can definitely do it ( loop an animated character as a one shot or cycle) as Phil Wilkes mentions this in the review of the software above.

Is is possible to peer inside a rom and examine it via software?