Add a second floppy to Archs without support (i.e. extra Gotek)

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simoni
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Add a second floppy to Archs without support (i.e. extra Gotek)

Post by simoni » Sun Apr 01, 2018 12:37 pm

Just a thought, but there is a modification you can make to floppy cables to allow 2nd floppies to be added (RPC600, A3010, etc.) that is available on the web.

It occurs to me that, instead of gluing a bunch of loose components to the back of the cable, you could solve it in an easier way...

You make a small board like this:
Arch 2nd floppy.PNG
And then attach it to a floppy cable (a straight-through 34 pin cable with 3 IDC female connectors on it) using a right-angle IDC cable-to-board connector like this:
IDC 34 way right angle board connector.jpg
I have little interest in making such things myself but, if someone is interested, here's a ready-made design in KiCAD (untested). If some enterprising individual wanted to make up some ready-to-go cables, I'm sure there would be quite a few willing buyers.
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Arch 2nd Floppy.zip
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Re: Add a second floppy to Archs without support (i.e. extra Gotek)

Post by steve3000 » Sun Apr 01, 2018 5:47 pm

Interesting, I've not seen this cable modification you mention, but I'm not sure how it can work without picking up the extra motor-on and drive select signals, at least on the A3010?

These aren't tracked to the pcb floppy socket on the A3010, so it's one drive maximum unless you pick up the signals direct from the 82C711?

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Re: Add a second floppy to Archs without support (i.e. extra Gotek)

Post by simoni » Sun Apr 01, 2018 5:57 pm

The explanation of how it works is provided by the article that I based it on:

http://www.apdl.org.uk/riscworld/volume ... /index.htm

It's been used by a number of people, so it is a 'known working' solution; I just SMD'd the design and put a PCB together - since it occurred to me you could simply 'snap' it to a cable and make it much easier for 'non-electronics-people' to achieve.

With the advent of Flash Floppy Goteks (and the excellent ADFS support it provides) I think adding a second floppy is about to become more of a 'want' from the community; hence the post.

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Re: Add a second floppy to Archs without support (i.e. extra Gotek)

Post by steve3000 » Sun Apr 01, 2018 10:46 pm

Ah, brilliant, thanks for the link. Simple external decoding to add one extra drive by treating drive 1 as being "NOT drive 0", now it makes sense! Neat solution in the article, and even neater laid out on your pcb. :)

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Re: Add a second floppy to Archs without support (i.e. extra Gotek)

Post by crj » Sun Apr 01, 2018 11:05 pm

Another option (using exactly the same PCB) would be to use a stacking header to make a dongle. If the second drive select is n/c then presumably you could then plug the dongle into the mainboard, or either floppy drive, wherever there was most room.

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Re: Add a second floppy to Archs without support (i.e. extra Gotek)

Post by simoni » Mon Apr 02, 2018 5:13 am

I thought about a stacking header, but it seemed a little more limiting from a mounting perspective; it would work fine, but space is usually restricted around the motherboard and back of the floppy. You could even put a standard pin header (or shrouded header) on the PCB and attach it by adding a fourth IDC to the ribbon cable - but the wire-to-board seemed the most flexible and cheapest option.

The reason it's 'untested' is simply because I only have a RISC PC600 and that has a modified motherboard to provide support; but, whilst I was doing it (soldering hook up wires to a tiny SMD chip pin) I thought of a better way for 'normal people' to install it who don't like to solder under a microscope :)

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Re: Add a second floppy to Archs without support (i.e. extra Gotek)

Post by lcww1 » Mon Apr 02, 2018 12:11 pm

simoni wrote:With the advent of Flash Floppy Goteks (and the excellent ADFS support it provides) I think adding a second floppy is about to become more of a 'want' from the community; hence the post.
I’d like to say a big thank you for your work on this, and indeed for your other Acorn projects that you’ve so generously shared on your website. I’ve really enjoyed reading your write-ups, and I’ve benefited from your work. This latest PCB is most welcome, and I’ve just sent an order to OSHPark for some of these boards. I’ve not much experience with surface mount components, so can I check that the BC817s are SOT-23 parts, and that 0805 is the correct size for the resistors?

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Re: Add a second floppy to Archs without support (i.e. extra Gotek)

Post by simoni » Mon Apr 02, 2018 12:46 pm

Glad you enjoyed the website and the projects! :)

The transistors are SOT-23 and the resistors are 0603. Both footprints are extended to make it easier to hand solder the board (and that means 0805 resistors might fit too). The 'space' between the header and the components is there to allow pretty much any header/connector to be used (the footprint is for a pin header, but shrouded connectors are wider). I've tried to use safe margins in the layout but, as I said, I haven't tested it physically; so it would be great if you could feedback any issues so I can correct things if necessary.

If it all works and you have spare boards left over; please feel free to sell them on. I'm sure those without soldering skills will appreciate it :)

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Re: Add a second floppy to Archs without support (i.e. extra Gotek)

Post by lcww1 » Mon Apr 02, 2018 10:11 pm

OK, thanks for that Simon! I’ll report back once I’ve got the pcbs and had a chance to build and test......I’ll be happy to share spares at cost :)

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Re: Add a second floppy to Archs without support (i.e. extra Gotek)

Post by lcww1 » Wed Apr 18, 2018 6:08 pm

PCBs have arrived! viewtopic.php?f=41&t=5594&p=201015#p201015

And the components arrived from RS last week, so I’m all set for testing this weekend......... 8)

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Re: Add a second floppy to Archs without support (i.e. extra Gotek)

Post by lcww1 » Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:59 pm

So, in the end, I was unable to wait until Friday :lol:

I’ve soldered up the first board and made a cable this evening - and it works! Tested on my A3010 with the internal floppy and an HxC Gotek:
A2AC9AA5-8AA9-43D7-A334-22D2BF437209.jpeg
Dual floppies on an A3010!
I’ll test an FF Gotek soon, but I’ve now installed my only FF Gotek as a second floppy drive in my A5000, so it’s not easily accessible. The Gotek jumpers needed to be changed from the settings I use with my Beeb - I found that I needed to remove all jumpers other than to set the Gotek to drive number 1 (S1).
8AAAF325-C74B-49B2-B118-917981139F48.jpeg
simoni’s Dual Floppy Cable
So, many thanks again Simon for this neat little board! It’s fab! =D>

I’ve got 5 more boards, of which I’ll use a couple more for myself, but I could get more made if there was any interest.

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Re: Add a second floppy to Archs without support (i.e. extra Gotek)

Post by simoni » Thu Apr 19, 2018 4:05 am

I’ve soldered up the first board and made a cable this evening - and it works!
Awesome; thanks for testing it and reporting back - Looks nice and neat :) The firmware on the Gotek in use shouldn't make any difference as long as it's configured correctly, although I'd recommend FlashFloppy simply because open-source - which is always a better choice IMHO; I also have a FF Gotek working as a second drive on my RPC600, works great!

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Re: Add a second floppy to Archs without support (i.e. extra Gotek)

Post by lcww1 » Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:16 am

Thanks Simon!

Just to add that I went with 0805 resistors, and they fit very nicely - I did get some 0603s as well, but their size was a bit intimidating :D

I’m with you re open source, and I’ll just say thanks once more for your open source hardware and software.

I’m thinking of fitting a Gotek to my A7000 in place of the CD - I wonder if that would leave enough space to fit a podule as well? :-k

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Re: Add a second floppy to Archs without support (i.e. extra Gotek)

Post by marcusjambler » Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:37 am

wow this is great =D>

I'm interested in a built board. Happy to pay for it and the postage

Marcus :)

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Re: Add a second floppy to Archs without support (i.e. extra Gotek)

Post by lcww1 » Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:12 am

No problem Marcus - PM sent :D

The spare pcbs are now spoken for, but I’m going to order another, larger, batch of pcbs from TechBridge, so there will be some more of these for anyone that wants one. ‘Till then, there will be a short delay.

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Re: Add a second floppy to Archs without support (i.e. extra Gotek)

Post by daveejhitchins » Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:35 am

lcww1 wrote:The spare pcbs are now spoken for, but I’m going to order another, larger, batch of pcbs from TechBridge, so there will be some more of these for anyone that wants one. ‘Till then, there will be a short delay.
Have a word with Henry (techbridge) about a scored panel. He's very helpful . . .

Dave H :D
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Products: ARA II, ARA III, ABR, ATI, AP6, MGC, AP5 . . .
For a price list, contact me at: Retro Hardware AT dave ej hitchins DOT plus DOT com

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Re: Add a second floppy to Archs without support (i.e. extra Gotek)

Post by lcww1 » Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:00 pm

Many thanks Dave! I’ll tell Henry you sent me :D

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Re: Add a second floppy to Archs without support (i.e. extra Gotek)

Post by number-one » Mon Apr 23, 2018 12:42 pm

Hello nice work, I'm interested in ready kit (built board and floppy cables).
A3010 4 MB Ram

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Re: Add a second floppy to Archs without support (i.e. extra Gotek)

Post by lcww1 » Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:25 pm

number-one wrote:Hello nice work, I'm interested in ready kit (built board and floppy cables).
I've sent you a PM :)

[I'll just note, in passing, that I've a rather limited capacity for making up the actual cables, but I'm happy enough to do the odd one now and then, to help others]

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Re: Add a second floppy to Archs without support (i.e. extra Gotek)

Post by z0m8ied0g » Thu Apr 26, 2018 11:07 am

lcww1 wrote:The spare pcbs are now spoken for, but I’m going to order another, larger, batch of pcbs from TechBridge, so there will be some more of these for anyone that wants one. ‘Till then, there will be a short delay.
I'm interested in several of these.
Can you please PM me with a price.
Acorn... lots of Acorn... http://blog.retroacorn.net

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Re: Add a second floppy to Archs without support (i.e. extra Gotek)

Post by lcww1 » Thu Apr 26, 2018 7:27 pm

z0m8ied0g wrote:I'm interested in several of these.
Can you please PM me with a price.
PM sent :D

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Re: Add a second floppy to Archs without support (i.e. extra Gotek)

Post by lcww1 » Sun Apr 29, 2018 6:48 pm

@number-one - here’s a pic of your A3010 dual floppy cable - it’s been tested, and works nicely with the built in drive and a FF Gotek :D
26E3C65C-400F-454E-B580-B37BA74F4466.jpeg
A3010 dual floppy cable
I’ve sent you a PM!

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Re: Add a second floppy to Archs without support (i.e. extra Gotek)

Post by lcww1 » Sun Apr 29, 2018 7:39 pm

I've just submitted an order to TecBridgeCircuits for 40 more of these PCBs. About 20 of these are already accounted for, but the others will be available to members of the forum.

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Re: Add a second floppy to Archs without support (i.e. extra Gotek)

Post by number-one » Fri May 11, 2018 4:11 pm

I installed this afternoon the dual floppy cable from lcww1 with my HXC Floppy emulator Rev C on my A3010.
The good jumpers configuration is ID1 A, Thanks to Jeff for your help the french conceptor of the HXC.

The 2 drives working together and i can boot the network floppy on the HXC drive 1.
IMG-0747.JPG
IMG-0746.JPG
A3010 4 MB Ram

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Re: Add a second floppy to Archs without support (i.e. extra Gotek)

Post by lcww1 » Fri May 11, 2018 7:41 pm

Delighted to see that you’re up and running with your networked dual floppy A3010 number-one! :D =D> =D>

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Re: Add a second floppy to Archs without support (i.e. extra Gotek)

Post by lcww1 » Tue May 15, 2018 8:57 pm

40 pcbs from TecBridge arrived today:
D46368CD-B3B6-4C84-9764-9CE7B1EBD29B.jpeg
40 new Arch 2nd floppy pcbs
77B44B87-8045-499A-BFF1-0E4E96E0B29B.jpeg
TecBridge Arch 2nd floppy pcb - no tabs!
I’ll get the pcbs posted to those that requested them later this week :D

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Re: Add a second floppy to Archs without support (i.e. extra Gotek)

Post by tomc » Tue May 22, 2018 4:21 pm

Hello, I'm a bit late to the party but wondering if there are any more of these available? A ready made one would be super.

I haven't seen any feedback about it in an A3000 but can give it a go and post my findings on here if anyone would find that useful.
Thanks,
Tom

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Re: Add a second floppy to Archs without support (i.e. extra Gotek)

Post by IanS » Tue May 22, 2018 4:48 pm

tomc wrote:Hello, I'm a bit late to the party but wondering if there are any more of these available? A ready made one would be super.

I haven't seen any feedback about it in an A3000 but can give it a go and post my findings on here if anyone would find that useful.
Shouldn't be needed on an A3000, it has 4 proper drive select lines.

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Re: Add a second floppy to Archs without support (i.e. extra Gotek)

Post by lcww1 » Tue May 22, 2018 8:10 pm

Good to know that re A3000s - David Holden’s article, linked to above, doesn’t specifically mention the A3000, presumably for this very reason!

Anyhow, I do have some spare 2nd floppy pcbs

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Re: Add a second floppy to Archs without support (i.e. extra Gotek)

Post by tomc » Tue May 22, 2018 9:07 pm

@IanS Ah I had no idea! Thank you for the information though. I have a vague memory reading about adding a 2nd floppy to an A3000 (in either Archimedes world or Acorn User in the very early 90s) and seem to remember it involving extra circuitry, maybe even having to buy a board. This is my memory from 30 years ago though so maybe it was actually quite simple! But this is good to know. So would just a standard double floppy cable do the trick? Also, would an A4000 also support 2 floppies just using a normal cable.

@lcww1 Thanks for the reply too - although by the sounds of things I might actually be ok. If the A4000 needs it then yes please!

This is really great work though, and great work to Simon for the neat design.
Tom

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