Archimedes Test ROMs

discuss the archimedes & risc pc, peripherals and risc os/risc os on pi
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Pernod
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Archimedes Test ROMs

Post by Pernod »

Does anyone have the Test ROMs that are referenced in the A300 service manual? The ROMs replace Arthur to carry out memory tests.
Last edited by Pernod on Mon Dec 05, 2016 1:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Archimedes Test ROMs

Post by davidb »

Are those the ones on the Archiology site? (Mirrored on 4corn.)
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Re: Archimedes Test ROMs

Post by Pernod »

No, there are apparently ROMs whereas those are Test discs.

Regarding the Dealer Test Discs, is it possible to convert these to ADF images?
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Re: Archimedes Test ROMs

Post by IanS »

Pernod wrote:Does anyone have the Test ROMs that are referenced in the A300 service manual? The ROMs replace Arthur to carry out memory tests.
I have some test roms that I got from Uniqueway along with a A3/4xx TRM on ebay many years ago. I've never tried them.
IMG_20161205_124337209_HDR.jpg
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Re: Archimedes Test ROMs

Post by davidb »

Pernod wrote:No, there are apparently ROMs whereas those are Test discs.
Sorry, I was not really looking very closely on there. :(
Pernod wrote:Regarding the Dealer Test Discs, is it possible to convert these to ADF images?
I don't have the tools to do that for D or E format ADFS floppies. Maybe someone reading this can do it without having to resort to using one of the emulators. Otherwise, let me know and I'll try with Arculator.
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Re: Archimedes Test ROMs

Post by Pernod »

IanS wrote:I have some test roms that I got from Uniqueway along with a A3/4xx TRM on ebay many years ago. I've never tried them.
That's exactly what I was looking for, thanks :D

I was surprised to find that they are interleaved, considering that other 4 ROM dumps of RISC OS are not interleaved.

Running in MAME, should help improving emulation.
0000.jpg
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Re: Archimedes Test ROMs

Post by IanS »

Pernod wrote:
IanS wrote:I have some test roms that I got from Uniqueway along with a A3/4xx TRM on ebay many years ago. I've never tried them.
I was surprised to find that they are interleaved, considering that other 4 ROM dumps of RISC OS are not interleaved.
The files are exact dumps of the Eproms from the picture. I'd have been more suprised if they weren't interleaved. The 4 roms supply data from the full 32-bit database, 8-bits from each.
I've never looked but I always assumed other 4 file dumps were interleaved. If you dump the data from a running system, there is no reason why you'd create 4 files rather than one.
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Re: Archimedes Test ROMs

Post by Pernod »

IanS wrote:I've never looked but I always assumed other 4 file dumps were interleaved. If you dump the data from a running system, there is no reason why you'd create 4 files rather than one.
Exactly, so all the sets of 4 ROMs out there are actually bad dumps :o
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Re: Archimedes Test ROMs

Post by dp11 »

I have some and looking to get rid of them. I will dig them out.
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Re: Archimedes Test ROMs

Post by steve3000 »

IanS wrote:If you dump the data from a running system, there is no reason why you'd create 4 files rather than one.
Oh but there is... where can you save a single-file 2mb RISC OS 3 ROM image from a floppy-only A3000 with 1mb RAM? ;)

At 512kb per ROM, for each of the four RISC OS 3 ROMs, when the first PC-based Archi emulators came out you needed to save each ROM individually from an old Archi with 800kb disc drive, in order to fit them on 4 x 720k DOS discs, to transfer out to your PC based Archi emulator. I guess this is why 4 non-interleaved images is accepted by most emulators even now.
Pernod wrote:
IanS wrote:I've never looked but I always assumed other 4 file dumps were interleaved. If you dump the data from a running system, there is no reason why you'd create 4 files rather than one.
Exactly, so all the sets of 4 ROMs out there are actually bad dumps :o
Well yes, and they're not actually ROM-dumps at all - just the 2mb of ROM data saved from a running system into 4 convenient 512kb chuncks, which happens to be the same size as each RISC OS 3 ROM. But easy to understand how they are thought to be ROM 'dumps'.
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Re: Archimedes Test ROMs

Post by steve3000 »

dp11 wrote:I have some and looking to get rid of them. I will dig them out.
Are these the same as the set imaged above? Really interested to try some test ROMs in my A305.

RISC OS 3's self-test code took away much of the need for 'test ROMs', but Arthur and RISC OS 2 don't have test code, so there's still utility for this type of ROM on computers which don't have a RO3 carrier board :)
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Re: Archimedes Test ROMs

Post by dp11 »

The Roms are the same.

I have 3 or 4 complete sets. PM me an offer
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Re: Archimedes Test ROMs

Post by IanS »

So to slightly hijack this thread. Has anyone tried the available rom dumps on real hardware.

I've got a copy of the "virtually free" roms - http://www.riscos.com/shop/products/101/index.htm

I've programmed the data (de-interleaved) into 4 flash chips (28sf040). I can get 3.11 3.10 and RISC OS 2.01 working on a R140 (basically a A4xx motherboard and it has an ARM3 fitted).

(fitting flash chips requires a bit of creative linking of pins on the carrier board, but seems ok)

However when I try Arthur 1.20, the machine does nothing. Power light only, no flashes from the floppy drive, nbo display.

Has anyone else tried this, the flash chips I'm using ar 4Mb, but Arthur 1.20 (and RISC OS 2.01) only need 1Mb. Whilst RISC OS 2.01 works with only one copy at the lowest address, do I need to duplicate the code so it repeats throughout the address space (or use smaller flash chips) for Arthur.

Is the ARM3 a problem?, I guess I should try RISC OS 2.00.
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Re: Archimedes Test ROMs

Post by hubersn »

IanS wrote:Is the ARM3 a problem?, I guess I should try RISC OS 2.00.
ARM3 support was added in RISC OS 2.01, but I am fairly sure that this was only "detect and switch on cache", so 2.00 would also work, but with cache disabled (and hence even a bit slower than an ARM2).

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Re: Archimedes Test ROMs

Post by IanS »

hubersn wrote:
IanS wrote:Is the ARM3 a problem?, I guess I should try RISC OS 2.00.
ARM3 support was added in RISC OS 2.01, but I am fairly sure that this was only "detect and switch on cache", so 2.00 would also work, but with cache disabled (and hence even a bit slower than an ARM2).
Yes, I tried 2.00 in 4Mb flash, and that works fine.

I'll give Arthur another go.
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Re: Archimedes Test ROMs

Post by steve3000 »

Arthur is very fussy. 0.3 won't even boot if you have more than 1mb RAM, so it wouldn't be surprising if 1.2 would only run on a fairly basic machine. Arthur certainly doesn't know about ARM 3, so won't enable the cache.

Possibly the MEMC1a required for ARM3 could be the problem?
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Re: Archimedes Test ROMs

Post by IanS »

steve3000 wrote:Arthur is very fussy. 0.3 won't even boot if you have more than 1mb RAM, so it wouldn't be surprising if 1.2 would only run on a fairly basic machine. Arthur certainly doesn't know about ARM 3, so won't enable the cache.

Possibly the MEMC1a required for ARM3 could be the problem?
I tried putting Arthur 1.20 in my non-MEMC1a A305 and it still doesn't work (it does have 2MB).

It could be the 2MB, but I'm not taking it out, too much hassle. I've already had to put a ROM carrier board in it so I can fit the flash chips.

The full Arthur file I'm trying has the following md5 if anyone can confirm it works.

77799441581deaef204b075860114862 ROM120
It's only 524,236 bytes, which is a few short for 512K. Anyone got another Arthur 1.20 dump to try?
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Re: Archimedes Test ROMs

Post by bear »

If Arthur 1.20 doesn't work, I'm not sure it's the 2 MB. Before I put Arthur 0.30 in my A310, it had a Simtec 4 MB board installed. One of the things I tested before removing the 4 MB board is that it worked fine with Arthur 1.20. (this is with the actual Arthur ROM chips, though, so I can't confirm or deny that the images you are using are "correct")

This is probably irrelevant, but I'll mention it anyway... One other funny thing I ran into with Arthur 0.30 is that it'll wait forever for an Econet clock, if the module is fitted. They fixed that for Arthur 1.20.
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Re: Archimedes Test ROMs

Post by IanS »

bear wrote:This is probably irrelevant, but I'll mention it anyway... One other funny thing I ran into with Arthur 0.30 is that it'll wait forever for an Econet clock, if the module is fitted. They fixed that for Arthur 1.20.
It doesn't even intialise the video display, so I think it's just not working.

As it happens I do have an Econet module (and a clock and a server, it's the easiest way to get stuff onto a machine in bits without a backplane)
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Re: Archimedes Test ROMs

Post by bear »

IanS wrote: It doesn't even intialise the video display, so I think it's just not working.
That's what I saw on the A310 with 4 MB and Arthur 0.30, though I could make it display a solid red screen if I powered on with a key held down... R? Delete? I've forgotten. One of the reset keys.

You'll get the banner text with the Arthur version and memory size and then nothing else, when it's waiting for an Econet clock.
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Re: Archimedes Test ROMs

Post by steve3000 »

bear wrote:If Arthur 1.20 doesn't work, I'm not sure it's the 2 MB. Before I put Arthur 0.30 in my A310, it had a Simtec 4 MB board installed.
Actually it might well be the 2mb that's the issue here.

Arthur 1.2 was never supplied in a 2mb computer. Only the A305, A310 and A440 - with 0.5, 1 and 4mb respectively. None of these could be officially upgraded/downgraded to 2mb, and the MEMC mapping would be different on 2mb, requiring a 16kb page size.

Easy test - if you have Arculator on a PC, you can try it :) (otherwise I'll give it a try when I'm home at the weekend)
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Re: Archimedes Test ROMs

Post by IanS »

At the moment I think I'm more concerned that the file I have isn't exactly 512K, if anyone has another image, can they post it somewhere?

Edit: There is a 512K image on 4corn - http://www.4corn.co.uk/archimedes.php

I'll try that tomorrow.
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Re: Archimedes Test ROMs

Post by IanS »

It lives!!!
IMG_20161214_202227181.jpg
IMG_20161214_202213916.jpg
So that's an A305, original MEMC, 2MB Ram, Arthur 1.20 (from 4corn)

My Arc doesn't currently have any batteries, so I was holding delete to do a CMOS reset. Don't do that, Arthur doesn't boot. Hold R, or nothing.

So with 4 times the space needed for Arthur in those flash chips, I should be able to make it switchable between 4 512K OS's.
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Re: Archimedes Test ROMs

Post by steve3000 »

IanS wrote:It lives!!!
Great news, now you get to enjoy the long forgotten Archimedes operating system :)
IanS wrote:So with 4 times the space needed for Arthur in those flash chips, I should be able to make it switchable between 4 512K OS's.
I'd say Arthur 0.3, Arthur 1.2, RISC OS 2 and some test ROMs?
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Re: Archimedes Test ROMs

Post by IanS »

steve3000 wrote:
IanS wrote:It lives!!!
Great news, now you get to enjoy the long forgotten Archimedes operating system :)
IanS wrote:So with 4 times the space needed for Arthur in those flash chips, I should be able to make it switchable between 4 512K OS's.
I'd say Arthur 0.3, Arthur 1.2, RISC OS 2 and some test ROMs?
A good choice, I can now boot into Arthur 0.3 (just gives a red border), Arthur 1.20 (wow, it's terrible), RISC OS 2.01 (I might add an Arm3) and the test rom that started this thread.

Bit manual fidlling with wires and links at the moment, but It should look OK with a few switches.
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Re: Archimedes Test ROMs

Post by IanS »

It's not pretty, but it works and it just plugs in, so it is reversable.
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Re: Archimedes Test ROMs

Post by steve3000 »

IanS wrote:It's not pretty, but it works and it just plugs in, so it is reversable.
Great DIY switchable OS mod. That's excellent!
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Re: Archimedes Test ROMs

Post by aerobaticant »

Hi Ian,

I know this is a bit of an old(ish) thread, but what issues did you have using flash chips?
IanS wrote:
Tue Dec 13, 2016 11:57 am
(fitting flash chips requires a bit of creative linking of pins on the carrier board, but seems ok)
I have a couple of tubes of Am29F040 devices doing nothing so I though I might try upgrading from RISC OS 3.10 to 3.11.
The ROM files I have found are not interleaved but that's easy to fix. FYI my A310 is fitted with the IFEL carrier card.
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Re: Archimedes Test ROMs

Post by IanS »

aerobaticant wrote:
Mon Feb 03, 2020 4:32 pm
Hi Ian,

I know this is a bit of an old(ish) thread, but what issues did you have using flash chips?
IanS wrote:
Tue Dec 13, 2016 11:57 am
(fitting flash chips requires a bit of creative linking of pins on the carrier board, but seems ok)
I have a couple of tubes of Am29F040 devices doing nothing so I though I might try upgrading from RISC OS 3.10 to 3.11.
The ROM files I have found are not interleaved but that's easy to fix. FYI my A310 is fitted with the IFEL carrier card.
I don't have any experience of the IFEL board, so it may not be easy. The mask programmed ROMS have VPP on Pin1. Pin 1 on the Flash chips is an address line (needs to be connected to A20 on the Archimedes)

On the carrier board in the pictures, the 9 pin block of pins (3x3) needs to be connected as follows.
a b c
d e f
g h i
a is the pin closest to the corner of the PCB.
d-h,b-e and f-i.

It all depends if you can re-assign pin 1 with the jumpers, (or cut some tracks)
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Re: Archimedes Test ROMs

Post by aerobaticant »

So I've done a bit of research. Looking at my IFEL carrier board it looks as if I need to swap pins 1 and 31 on each ROM to be able to use the FLASH. Unfortunately there aren't links to do this, and there's a track (+5V) between pin 1 and pin 32 on all ROM sockets. It may be possible to mod when I get a chance but it'll have to wait until the weekend!
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