Baildon Electronics IDE Interfaces - Replication

Arc/RPCs, peripherals, RISCOS operating system & ARM kit eg GP2x, BeagleBoard
RobC
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Re: Baildon Electronics IDE Interfaces - Replication

Post by RobC » Mon Mar 12, 2018 8:29 pm

daveejhitchins wrote:On their way, Rob . . .
Cheers - I'll let you know when they arrive.

aotta
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Re: Baildon Electronics IDE Interfaces - Replication

Post by aotta » Fri Apr 27, 2018 3:35 pm

I am afraid the original project will never get progress... But i have just finished the porting to arduino of the apple ii smartport emulator, and i am quite sure it may be done for emulating a3000 ide podule too... I start studying! ;)

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daveejhitchins
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Re: Baildon Electronics IDE Interfaces - Replication

Post by daveejhitchins » Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:36 pm

aotta wrote:I am afraid the original project will never get progress...
Oh yes it will :D - Rob has already sorted out one of the PLDs - the second is registered - so just needs looking at in a different way. I'll get there in the end - just be patient 8) - it's not been 30 years yet!

Dave H :D
Parts: UM6502CE, GAL22V10D, GAL16V8D, AS6C62256A, TC514400AZ, WD1772, R6522, TMS27C512, AT28C256
Products: ARA II, ARA III, ABR, ATI, AP6, MGC, AP5 . . .
For a price list, contact me at: Retro Hardware AT dave ej hitchins DOT plus DOT com

aotta
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Re: Baildon Electronics IDE Interfaces - Replication

Post by aotta » Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:44 pm

Really? if RobC is working in the project, i can believe it... i bought one of his Nula for my Master and it's a masterpiece!
anyway, the emulation on arduino seems a good alternative to me... i'll investigate about the possibility, starting from emulator that supports ICS IDE in software and that are available with source code in C language

VectorEyes
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Re: Baildon Electronics IDE Interfaces - Replication

Post by VectorEyes » Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:43 am

Just wondering whether there's been any progress on Risc PC IDE interfaces recently? I just saw a Baildon Arcin v6c go for £70 on eBay!

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daveejhitchins
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Re: Baildon Electronics IDE Interfaces - Replication

Post by daveejhitchins » Tue Sep 04, 2018 10:52 pm

VectorEyes wrote:
Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:43 am
Just wondering whether there's been any progress on Risc PC IDE interfaces recently? I just saw a Baildon Arcin v6c go for £70 on eBay!
Discussions at Cambridge . . .

Dave H :D
Parts: UM6502CE, GAL22V10D, GAL16V8D, AS6C62256A, TC514400AZ, WD1772, R6522, TMS27C512, AT28C256
Products: ARA II, ARA III, ABR, ATI, AP6, MGC, AP5 . . .
For a price list, contact me at: Retro Hardware AT dave ej hitchins DOT plus DOT com

Trapper
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Re: Baildon Electronics IDE Interfaces - Replication

Post by Trapper » Fri Sep 14, 2018 12:07 am

VectorEyes wrote:
Tue Sep 04, 2018 9:43 am
Just wondering whether there's been any progress on Risc PC IDE interfaces recently? I just saw a Baildon Arcin v6c go for £70 on eBay!
Whoops! That was me!

I've seen them go for well over £100 and they are only getting rarer - bit of an investment!

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daveejhitchins
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Re: Baildon Electronics IDE Interfaces - Replication

Post by daveejhitchins » Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:28 am

Update (at last) . . .

I've now been working on the recovery of the 2 PLDs, on and off, for the last week (Mrs H is away for 2 weeks in November :D :oops: ) and, apart from the lost file shenanigans I seem to be making progress.

Although RobC recovered the contents of IC1 (attached) I've decided to see if I can verify this using my own hardware and software. Then I can be more confident of any findings for IC3.

I eventually got the hardware working and saved the data in Address - Data format: 10 bit of address and 8 bit of data (ignoring bit 7). The data collection was carried using an Electron with MRB (Turbo and Shadow mode) and AP5 fitted. Using User-Port B and Clock Out from CB1 with Data being shifted out from CB2 into a serial to parallel shift register (2 x 74LS164). This gave me the 10 bits for the inputs of the PLD. The 7 bits of PLD output were read via the 6522 data input.

Next step (I could have done this in the same program, however, decided to break it down into manageable segments) was to load the data into 2 x arrays Address and Data. Next, (and this is where I am now) is to sort into PLD Output nodes e.g. run through the Data and search for address that have each node valid - all address that have bit 0 = 0 - addresses that have bit 1 = 0 etc. I'll also have to take the OE pin into account. I think the Clock-in can be ignored for IC1.

Then I can sort through the results and hopefully end up with what's needed.

@RobC: I've downloaded your pa.exe program. What format of data does it require?

More later.
IdeAIN V6C IC1.pld.zip
RobC's recovered IC1 PLD data.
(1.52 KiB) Downloaded 2 times
Dave H :D
Parts: UM6502CE, GAL22V10D, GAL16V8D, AS6C62256A, TC514400AZ, WD1772, R6522, TMS27C512, AT28C256
Products: ARA II, ARA III, ABR, ATI, AP6, MGC, AP5 . . .
For a price list, contact me at: Retro Hardware AT dave ej hitchins DOT plus DOT com

RobC
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Re: Baildon Electronics IDE Interfaces - Replication

Post by RobC » Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:57 pm

daveejhitchins wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:28 am
@RobC: I've downloaded your pa.exe program. What format of data does it require?
Hi Dave,

The program isn't mine - it comes from here. It's from his post on reading secured PALs.

I built the adapter to read the PAL as an EPROM and then used the PA software to analyse the bin/rom file. The software takes the binary "EPROM" dump and generates a text file in CUPL format as output.

Sorry that I haven't had more time to progress this further but, unfortunately, I've been busy with lots of other things recently...

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daveejhitchins
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Re: Baildon Electronics IDE Interfaces - Replication

Post by daveejhitchins » Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:56 pm

RobC wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:57 pm
The program isn't mine - it comes from here. It's from his post on reading secured PALs.
Ah! Thanks Rob . . .
RobC wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:57 pm
I built the adapter to read the PAL as an EPROM and then used the PA software to analyse the bin/rom file. The software takes the binary "EPROM" dump and generates a text file in CUPL format as output.
So the 'dump' would just be data from the output - no addresses . . . I believe you set-up the inputs and output within the program - but not run it yet, so guessing! I may give that a go
RobC wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:57 pm
Sorry that I haven't had more time to progress this further but, unfortunately, I've been busy with lots of other things recently...
No problem - about time I actually did something . . .

Dave H :D
Parts: UM6502CE, GAL22V10D, GAL16V8D, AS6C62256A, TC514400AZ, WD1772, R6522, TMS27C512, AT28C256
Products: ARA II, ARA III, ABR, ATI, AP6, MGC, AP5 . . .
For a price list, contact me at: Retro Hardware AT dave ej hitchins DOT plus DOT com

RobC
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Re: Baildon Electronics IDE Interfaces - Replication

Post by RobC » Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:05 pm

daveejhitchins wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:56 pm
So the 'dump' would just be data from the output - no addresses
Yes - you just read the PAL as a 27C020 and then pass the "ROM" image to the PA software as a binary file.

In terms of describing inputs and outputs and giving signal names, I can't remember the syntax, but this is what the PA.exe instruction section says:
Analysis software

Running the executable (pa.exe) from the command line shows the following output:

usage: pa [-options]
Available options:
-force : Force processing of registered PAL dumps.
-alloe : Force OE equations to be listed for all pins.
-polarity : Use specified bitmask to force output polarity.
-oepolarity : Use specified bitmask to force output enable polarity.
-ignore : Use specified bitmask to ignore processing outputs.
-signal : Specify user-supplied pin names.
-verbose : Print informational messages.

Type `pa help <option>' for more information on that option.
Results are written to stdout.
For example assuming you have binary output called "paldata.bin" from your device programmer. You can analyze it by typing:

pa paldata.bin > paldata.txt
... and the CUPL output will be written to "paldata.txt". The output is intended for use with Atmel WinCUPL so you may have to edit the source to use it with other HDL software or minimization tools.
I ran some other software to simplify the equations but can't remember what I used. It might have been Logic Friday but I'm away from the machine I used at the moment...

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daveejhitchins
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Re: Baildon Electronics IDE Interfaces - Replication

Post by daveejhitchins » Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:16 pm

RobC wrote:
Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:05 pm
Yes - you just read the PAL as a 27C020 and then pass the "ROM" image to the PA software as a binary file.
So that's what I've decided to do. However, instead of trying to read the part on my Programmer (seemingly, may not anyway!) I've put together a quick and dirty adapter that conforms to the requirements in the (RobC's) link above. Instead of using a programmer to do the reading, it connects to the user port. I have a program (needs a little tweak!) that will do the job. The PCB will accept a DIL or PLCC ZIF socket adapter.

The addresses (A0 > A17) are clocked out of CB2 by CB1 into the 3 x 74LS164 (serial to parallel shift registers). The data is then read from the GAL outputs into PB0 > PB7.

I'll order 10 of these. So if anyone would like one - just let me know.

If someone could carry out a sanity check, please.
Schematic.JPG
PCB.JPG

Dave H :D

GAL16V8 Adaptor 17-10-18 - Schematic.zip
(72.16 KiB) Downloaded 2 times
Parts: UM6502CE, GAL22V10D, GAL16V8D, AS6C62256A, TC514400AZ, WD1772, R6522, TMS27C512, AT28C256
Products: ARA II, ARA III, ABR, ATI, AP6, MGC, AP5 . . .
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IanS
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Re: Baildon Electronics IDE Interfaces - Replication

Post by IanS » Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:45 pm

daveejhitchins wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:16 pm

I'll order 10 of these. So if anyone would like one - just let me know.

If someone could carry out a sanity check, please.
I'll take one if there is one spare.

Seems to be a slightly odd order of address lines out of the shift registers, would be better if you re-ordered to make the shifting out of the value by your program easier.

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daveejhitchins
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Re: Baildon Electronics IDE Interfaces - Replication

Post by daveejhitchins » Wed Oct 17, 2018 7:04 pm

IanS wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:45 pm
I'll take one if there is one spare.
On the list Ian . . .
IanS wrote:
Wed Oct 17, 2018 3:45 pm
Seems to be a slightly odd order of address lines out of the shift registers, would be better if you re-ordered to make the shifting out of the value by your program easier.
Yes, I know . . . Just copying what I already have working on the breadboard. It seemed to track OK too!

I'll do some work on the software and post it here.

Dave H :D
Parts: UM6502CE, GAL22V10D, GAL16V8D, AS6C62256A, TC514400AZ, WD1772, R6522, TMS27C512, AT28C256
Products: ARA II, ARA III, ABR, ATI, AP6, MGC, AP5 . . .
For a price list, contact me at: Retro Hardware AT dave ej hitchins DOT plus DOT com

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