Windows 10....

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Elminster
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Re: Windows 10....

Post by Elminster » Sat May 05, 2018 10:11 pm

Yep a fair round up.

I probably spend more time in Mac cli because come from a linux, hpux, Solaris background ( using Linux since kernel 0.something)

And ironically the software I use most for work on the Mac is MS office, and I hate to say it but it is the best package (better than libre or apples pages, keynotes etc.). Use it for work and also wrote my MSc dissertation with it on the Mac.

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Re: Windows 10....

Post by Coeus » Sat May 05, 2018 10:21 pm

Elminster wrote:...And ironically the software I use most for work on the Mac is MS office, and I hate to say it but it is the best package (better than libre or apples pages, keynotes etc.). Use it for work and also wrote my MSc dissertation with it on the Mac.
I am interested you say that for two reasons:
  1. because it seems to me that most people probably use about 10% of the capability of most office applications and, for the majority of the population, these were feature-complete over ten years ago.
  2. When I have to use Word for work I find it winds me up. The same is not true of Excel.
My biggest gripe is around style sheets. If I apply a style from a style sheet to something what I intend by that is that the thing (paragraph, for example) is locked to that style so if I change the definition of the style I expect the paragraph to change accordingly. I also expect applying a style to replace any formatting that was there previously. Word doesn't seem to work that way.

Another example is automatic table of contents generation. If I specify an automatic table of contents that means I want it to be automatic. That means I want it to be impossible to ever print or save the document with it out of step with the actual contents of the document, not to need to explicitly refresh it. The same with inserted fields.

Change tracking was another thing that was much harder than it should be. It is easy to turn of the display of changes to a document but I specifically wanted to destroy the change history information, i.e. I was about to send it to someone and I wanted them to be able to read it in its current form and not be able to go back and see how it had evolved. I got there in the end but that was well buried, as if law enforcement had lent on them to preserve change history as forensic evidence.

Maybe there are similar faults in other word processors (it's just Word that winds me up) but I have not used them for quite the same things.
Last edited by Coeus on Sat May 05, 2018 10:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Elminster
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Re: Windows 10....

Post by Elminster » Sat May 05, 2018 10:34 pm

It is all about compatibility, rather than features. When I have to produce commercial docs for clients only office on the Mac gives something that clients who will be using windows office will be nearly perfect. Pages and libreoffice every now and again do odd thing. Which on big deals can be difference between getting the contract and not getting. Doesn’t help me write good prose though.

As to the good and the bad you just get used to it. I remember writing 30k words in words doc and word occasionally going bezerk. I tend to write in scrivener first and then push to word.

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Re: Windows 10....

Post by Coeus » Sat May 05, 2018 10:37 pm

Elminster wrote:It is all about compatibility, rather than features. When I have to produce commercial docs for clients only office on the Mac gives something that clients who will be using windows office will be nearly perfect. Pages and libreoffice every now and again do odd thing. Which on big deals can be difference between getting the contract and not getting. Doesn’t help me write good prose though.
That's just good old lock-in, then.

To be fair, my criticisms are from a perspective of trying to write technical documents where I was the presentation to be consistent, but I don't spend ages tuning it up in any way - no fiddling with half a point of line spacing to make it fit on a page or the like.

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Elminster
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Re: Windows 10....

Post by Elminster » Sat May 05, 2018 10:44 pm

Not locked presa but it is a huge pain trying to tweak what I am doing in Pages (I never liked OpenOffice and it’s many versions, I do go back to it from time to time) to display right in word. In the end I gave up, and the thing about word is usually it is pretty easy to fix something.

And I do prefer word interface on Mac, I think it is better than ms word interface. Ditto for excel etc. I evened switch from Apple stuff to office on iPad now.

Just prefer it, even though locked in. At the end of the day we are all different, especially with gui stuff.

Anyone remember Final Writer on the Amiga, that was a good word processor. Did all my BSc stuff on that.

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Elminster
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Re: Windows 10....

Post by Elminster » Sat May 05, 2018 10:48 pm

Coeus wrote: To be fair, my criticisms are from a perspective of trying to write technical documents where I was the presentation to be consistent, but I don't spend ages tuning it up in any way - no fiddling with half a point of line spacing to make it fit on a page or the like.
Technical writing I use scrivener, papers 3, then push to word if I have to. Word always screws up the references though and I have to redo them.

Edit: note to self. Must stop talking about word processors before everyone falls asleep :)

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Re: Windows 10....

Post by 1024MAK » Sat May 05, 2018 11:34 pm

Zzzzzz....

To be fair, I find LibreOffice to be easier to use most of the time. At work we are on Windows 7 and I'm always getting frustrated trying to find controls in those darn ribbon things.

@Coeus, the problems you mention, yep, think I have have the same problems. Spent hours trying to get an automated index to actually tie up with the edited content before finding the "magic" refresh control. Just don't ask me for details, I've forgotten....
Changing tables also can be a pain in the neck.

Used some binary/hexadecimal functions in a spreadsheet once. Worked fine in OpenOffice. But not in Excel. Turns out to get those functions you have to download an extra package :twisted:

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Elminster
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Re: Windows 10....

Post by Elminster » Sun May 06, 2018 12:35 am

Still awake and thinking of office packages. Memories coming back.

In the olden days before laptop were cheap. At home I used star office and then used free word viewer and flicked between them till It looked right, big pain.. Did this after rename to open office, (never used libreoffice as that is relatively recent change)

Then work laptop at home with windows office, boo.

Then got Mac and used Pages, keynote etc. About 10 years ago.

Then switched to Mac office around 2010, think that was when I got Mac office 2011, now use 2016.

I am fairly sure once you have used any of the products for a while the others are Alien. Having said that I do scream at my screen more often when using office than any other app on the Mac.

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Re: Windows 10....

Post by CMcDougall » Sat Jun 02, 2018 1:13 pm

just noticed one of my other laptop speed on Speedtest.net over wifi is only 6:1 :roll:
put in LAN, and full 37:7 :roll:

so they now have knackered the sound card driver on one laptop, & Ralink WiFi driver on the other FFS! :evil:

only one today : 2018-05 Cumulative Update for Windows 10 Version 1803 for x64-based Systems (KB4100403) :lol:
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Re: Windows 10....

Post by CMcDougall » Sat Aug 04, 2018 9:16 am

another : 2018-07 Cumulative Update for Windows 10 Version 1803 for x64-based Systems (KB4340917) :roll:

gave up with it on my older laptop, so put on winXP :D
now the sound card is back =D> , & found the driver for the WiFi, as did not show in Device Manager :?
so it's flying with no updated..... ever!! :lol:

EDIT: that update took 38mins until my laptop was useable :twisted:
Last edited by CMcDougall on Sat Aug 04, 2018 9:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Windows 10....

Post by Barnabas » Sat Aug 04, 2018 5:03 pm

Finally ditched win 10 as enforced updates really weren't doing it for me. Lost work a few times over the past couple of years - the usual indication that an update was about to take place was the laptop grinding to a halt and losing internet connectivity, then rebooting and being unable to use the computer again for a couple of hours.

Currently enjoying Ubuntu which I've had installed for the last week.

One major improvement I've noticed is USB transfer speeds. I could never get windows 10 to provide any increase over USB 2 speeds when transferring between the laptop and an external drive. Before I installed Ubuntu I copied a couple of hundred gb's worth of data across to a USB 3 portable HD which took hours - maxing out at around 60mb/s and falling as low as 50k/s at certain points, particularly when copying a large number of small files (e.g. archives of floppy disc images for retro systems). Copying the same data back to the laptop from the HD took a fraction of the time on Ubuntu, rarely dropping below 50mb/s.

p.s. C McDougall - a name (and avatar) I recognise from B2VOS days :) I was MikeW over there...

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Re: Windows 10....

Post by trixster » Sat Aug 04, 2018 6:59 pm

I’ve been pretty unimpressed with W10 for a while now but since an update in June I’ve been suffering the nvlddmkm.sys BSOD. It’s an old pc with an old nvidia GeForce. It was just about coping with the stuff I use the pc for (downloading stuff for old computers, Photoshop work) but now it’s so unstable it’s virtually useless. I’ve tried all the ‘fixes’ on the net and I’ve tried rolling the system back but I can’t get this fixed. Considering dumping pc’s altogether.
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Re: Windows 10....

Post by VincentVega » Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:09 pm

My work PC flatly refuses to install update 1803. It gets as far as rebooting, but when I try and enter my password, it says it's wrong (it isn't). There's also no wireless internet. I reboot to see if that makes it any better and the machine rolls back the update to the previous version of Windows without prompting. It's done this about three times now. Hopeless.

I'm still happily [sic] dual-booting W8.1 on my iMac. It contrast to W10, it never misses a beat, and doesn't look like something from 1992.
Last edited by VincentVega on Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Windows 10....

Post by CMcDougall » Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:36 pm

^that's well weird :-k , but I never put passwords on PCs (waste of time, switch on, cup of tea), as if I wanted in, I would get in, or copy all the files off the HardDisc anyways (done a few before, found private /home made naughty films! :lol: )
Barnabas wrote:
Sat Aug 04, 2018 5:03 pm
a name (and avatar) I recognise from B2VOS days :) I was MikeW over there...
hi Mike :wink: , yes those where the days, started on this forum about a month prior to B2VOS one,
but my post count is not x100 as over there, BoringBook has killed all those great forums, some even gone forever :cry:
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Elminster
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Re: Windows 10....

Post by Elminster » Sat Aug 04, 2018 10:06 pm

If you added harddisk encryption you could drink more tea. I remember old work laptops with xp and encryption, I used to turn them on when I got into work, and consumed quite a lot of coffee before machine was ‘usable’. These days with flash and better encryption support I just about get the kettle on.

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Re: Windows 10....

Post by sydney » Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:56 am

I've never had an up to date pc and my newest one is an HP DC7800 with 4gb of ram and a Q6600 core2quad cpu. It cost me £15 with FREE postage! It weighs a bloody ton and probably cost near that to send out.
I usually run linux, mint or lubuntu, but had a few small issues so thought I'd give windows 10 a try. Needless to say I'm posting this from linux!

Windows 10 is just so slow!
It takes at least twice as long to boot as linux and all the software I've used on windows 10 is no better than the equivalent in linux or the very same software running with wine. Also the hard disk seems to be constantly in use. I'll never use windows again.
I realise it's an older system and cpu but it really shouldn't be that bad - linux shows how good this pc can be.
Last edited by sydney on Sun Aug 19, 2018 8:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Elminster
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Re: Windows 10....

Post by Elminster » Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:05 am

But that has always been the case. 20 years ago I got 5 or 6 EOL Windows 3.1 pc from work, because they could not handle windows NT. I loaded them up with redhat and Slackware after expending the memory to 8MB (or something like that) and used them as firewalls and slip gateway for years.

I just have win7 32 bit and win10 64 bit vms to run software that I can’t run on Mac/Linux or work well with them. Oscilloscope and chip programmers Often seem to only work on windows for some reason.
Last edited by Elminster on Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:05 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Windows 10....

Post by sydney » Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:17 am

Elminster wrote:
Sun Aug 19, 2018 9:05 am
I just have win7 32 bit and win10 64 bit vms to run software that I can’t run on Mac/Linux or work well with them.
Speaking of Mac the DC7800 is quite a good candidate for turning into a Hackintosh so once I've got another 4gb of RAM (£10 max) and a cheap graphics card (£10-£20 max) I might give it a go.

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