Windows 10....

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Elminster
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Re: Windows 10....

Post by Elminster » Sat May 05, 2018 10:11 pm

Yep a fair round up.

I probably spend more time in Mac cli because come from a linux, hpux, Solaris background ( using Linux since kernel 0.something)

And ironically the software I use most for work on the Mac is MS office, and I hate to say it but it is the best package (better than libre or apples pages, keynotes etc.). Use it for work and also wrote my MSc dissertation with it on the Mac.

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Re: Windows 10....

Post by Coeus » Sat May 05, 2018 10:21 pm

Elminster wrote:...And ironically the software I use most for work on the Mac is MS office, and I hate to say it but it is the best package (better than libre or apples pages, keynotes etc.). Use it for work and also wrote my MSc dissertation with it on the Mac.
I am interested you say that for two reasons:
  1. because it seems to me that most people probably use about 10% of the capability of most office applications and, for the majority of the population, these were feature-complete over ten years ago.
  2. When I have to use Word for work I find it winds me up. The same is not true of Excel.
My biggest gripe is around style sheets. If I apply a style from a style sheet to something what I intend by that is that the thing (paragraph, for example) is locked to that style so if I change the definition of the style I expect the paragraph to change accordingly. I also expect applying a style to replace any formatting that was there previously. Word doesn't seem to work that way.

Another example is automatic table of contents generation. If I specify an automatic table of contents that means I want it to be automatic. That means I want it to be impossible to ever print or save the document with it out of step with the actual contents of the document, not to need to explicitly refresh it. The same with inserted fields.

Change tracking was another thing that was much harder than it should be. It is easy to turn of the display of changes to a document but I specifically wanted to destroy the change history information, i.e. I was about to send it to someone and I wanted them to be able to read it in its current form and not be able to go back and see how it had evolved. I got there in the end but that was well buried, as if law enforcement had lent on them to preserve change history as forensic evidence.

Maybe there are similar faults in other word processors (it's just Word that winds me up) but I have not used them for quite the same things.
Last edited by Coeus on Sat May 05, 2018 10:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Elminster
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Re: Windows 10....

Post by Elminster » Sat May 05, 2018 10:34 pm

It is all about compatibility, rather than features. When I have to produce commercial docs for clients only office on the Mac gives something that clients who will be using windows office will be nearly perfect. Pages and libreoffice every now and again do odd thing. Which on big deals can be difference between getting the contract and not getting. Doesn’t help me write good prose though.

As to the good and the bad you just get used to it. I remember writing 30k words in words doc and word occasionally going bezerk. I tend to write in scrivener first and then push to word.

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Re: Windows 10....

Post by Coeus » Sat May 05, 2018 10:37 pm

Elminster wrote:It is all about compatibility, rather than features. When I have to produce commercial docs for clients only office on the Mac gives something that clients who will be using windows office will be nearly perfect. Pages and libreoffice every now and again do odd thing. Which on big deals can be difference between getting the contract and not getting. Doesn’t help me write good prose though.
That's just good old lock-in, then.

To be fair, my criticisms are from a perspective of trying to write technical documents where I was the presentation to be consistent, but I don't spend ages tuning it up in any way - no fiddling with half a point of line spacing to make it fit on a page or the like.

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Elminster
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Re: Windows 10....

Post by Elminster » Sat May 05, 2018 10:44 pm

Not locked presa but it is a huge pain trying to tweak what I am doing in Pages (I never liked OpenOffice and it’s many versions, I do go back to it from time to time) to display right in word. In the end I gave up, and the thing about word is usually it is pretty easy to fix something.

And I do prefer word interface on Mac, I think it is better than ms word interface. Ditto for excel etc. I evened switch from Apple stuff to office on iPad now.

Just prefer it, even though locked in. At the end of the day we are all different, especially with gui stuff.

Anyone remember Final Writer on the Amiga, that was a good word processor. Did all my BSc stuff on that.

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Elminster
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Re: Windows 10....

Post by Elminster » Sat May 05, 2018 10:48 pm

Coeus wrote: To be fair, my criticisms are from a perspective of trying to write technical documents where I was the presentation to be consistent, but I don't spend ages tuning it up in any way - no fiddling with half a point of line spacing to make it fit on a page or the like.
Technical writing I use scrivener, papers 3, then push to word if I have to. Word always screws up the references though and I have to redo them.

Edit: note to self. Must stop talking about word processors before everyone falls asleep :)

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Re: Windows 10....

Post by 1024MAK » Sat May 05, 2018 11:34 pm

Zzzzzz....

To be fair, I find LibreOffice to be easier to use most of the time. At work we are on Windows 7 and I'm always getting frustrated trying to find controls in those darn ribbon things.

@Coeus, the problems you mention, yep, think I have have the same problems. Spent hours trying to get an automated index to actually tie up with the edited content before finding the "magic" refresh control. Just don't ask me for details, I've forgotten....
Changing tables also can be a pain in the neck.

Used some binary/hexadecimal functions in a spreadsheet once. Worked fine in OpenOffice. But not in Excel. Turns out to get those functions you have to download an extra package :twisted:

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Elminster
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Re: Windows 10....

Post by Elminster » Sun May 06, 2018 12:35 am

Still awake and thinking of office packages. Memories coming back.

In the olden days before laptop were cheap. At home I used star office and then used free word viewer and flicked between them till It looked right, big pain.. Did this after rename to open office, (never used libreoffice as that is relatively recent change)

Then work laptop at home with windows office, boo.

Then got Mac and used Pages, keynote etc. About 10 years ago.

Then switched to Mac office around 2010, think that was when I got Mac office 2011, now use 2016.

I am fairly sure once you have used any of the products for a while the others are Alien. Having said that I do scream at my screen more often when using office than any other app on the Mac.

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Re: Windows 10....

Post by CMcDougall » Sat Jun 02, 2018 1:13 pm

just noticed one of my other laptop speed on Speedtest.net over wifi is only 6:1 :roll:
put in LAN, and full 37:7 :roll:

so they now have knackered the sound card driver on one laptop, & Ralink WiFi driver on the other FFS! :evil:

only one today : 2018-05 Cumulative Update for Windows 10 Version 1803 for x64-based Systems (KB4100403) :lol:
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