3D printing advice

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scruss
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Re: 3D printing advice

Post by scruss » Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:39 pm

It's not that Meanwell PSUs are quiet: it's that they've got at least a nod towards electrical safety. Some of the others, random shorts and overheating is the order of the day.

I see All3DP are maintaining usual reviewer quality control in say that the Ender 3 v2 has a "“silent” 32-bit motherboard with a 2560 chipset", copypasta from a third-party (not even Creality) vendor page. ATMega2560s are the good old 8-bit controllers in RAMPS boards. Creality make no mention of a 32-bit controller in the Ender 3 v2. If the CR6 is coming with a 32 bit controller, it'll likely be an STM32F103: a mostly-obsolete and widely ripped-off Cortex-M3 core that's typically cheaper than an ATMega.

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Re: 3D printing advice

Post by Elminster » Sat Jun 20, 2020 11:50 pm

scruss wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 10:39 pm
It's not that Meanwell PSUs are quiet: it's that they've got at least a nod towards electrical safety. Some of the others, random shorts and overheating is the order of the day.
You had to be there. There was a big noise that Creality might use another PSU (the preproduction has a meanwell) as though there are not other safe power supply manufacturers in the world. So in the end they said they would stick with the meanwell, But now it would appear that the Meanwell has a very noisy fan, which completely wipes out the the advantage of the CR6s quiet motor drivers and extrude fan. That was the funny thing. I think they are probably actually using an under powered psu, my psu on the Huxley has a fan and I have never heard it come on yet,

Not to hard to swap out the fan, or even the whole psu for something quieter, but not something you want to do on a brand new printer. Lets hope they go for something higher spec and the fan doesn't come on.

Edit: looks like CR6 has 350watt psu in preview models. Seems a bit light, Huxley now has a 360watt psu, due to the ridiculous 200watt heated bed it now has.
Creality make no mention of a 32-bit controller in the Ender 3 v2. If the CR6 is coming with a 32 bit controller, it'll likely be an STM32F103: a mostly-obsolete and widely ripped-off Cortex-M3 core that's typically cheaper than an ATMega.
The Ender 3 v2 has the 32 bit controller board on the review machines going out, at least it was on the model Chep received for review on his you tube channel a week ago. So it will most likely be the same board as in the ender 3 v2. But you are right about the chip it is the STM32F103 you can see it around 3:12.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lR5RAaroMpw

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Re: 3D printing advice

Post by Elminster » Sun Jun 21, 2020 12:55 am

jonb wrote:
Sat Jun 20, 2020 1:32 pm
I just watched this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvxljVfQPUI

The print quality he got was amazing.
Interestingly he also said all the noise is coming from the bottom, so either psu or electronics fan.

Prints looked good, not sure what make the filament was

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Re: 3D printing advice

Post by jonb » Sun Jun 21, 2020 8:45 am

Seems like the Creality branded filament is rubbish. Either that, or his slicer profile is out. I'm a little bit concerned by the extruder problems. Should have worked as-is. Took him a while to fix and he is an expert. What hope for us noobs?

As to the PSU and fan, well it is going to be easy to swap the fan out. I read on the FB page that it's a 12v fan, so no problems sourcing a Noctua. IF the FB commenter is correct! I also think the design of the fan opening in the MW case is inefficient. I'd cut it out to help with airflow if necessary. Probably have to cut the CR6 case too, or just remove the cover altogether. As it's underneath you'd not notice it.

You're right, all the brouhaha surrounding the Meanwell PSU is ironic, very ironic (and, full disclosure, I participated in it). But we've no indication of the performance of A.N.Other brand of PSU (noise, wattage or EU compliance). Speaking of which, I'll wager Creality won't be shipping a non compliant PSU to the EU. They are not "Mr & Mrs Wong from Shenzen" selling dangerous power adapters for a quid a pop (plus free shipping, how do they do that?) on eBay, they are a large established company with a reputation to uphold. So I'm unconcerned by that. Interesting that the MW PSU isn't EU compliant though. I mean, if the MW brand was so great, you'd think they'd have a properly designed product capable of passing certification globally, right? On the other hand, Stefan's machine is a preproduction model with the 8 bit board.

Swapping the PSU itself might not be easy. A more powerful PSU would presumably be physically bigger. Would it fit in the allotted space?

Nice to see a critical review (CNC Kitchen) even if it was too brief. I'm pretty fed up with all the fawning yoootoooberz sucking up to Creality. It's like they are scared to criticise the manufacturer or something. Good on Stefan for saying it like it is. As I paid the $319 price, I won't complain if the printer needs extra stuff, but I think if I'd paid full retail price I'd be feeling short changed. I wonder if it will really retail at $400+ - or maybe they pulled that out of the air so as to spur on the KS campaign. You know, "get 'em while they're cheap" sort of thing...

Shipping: They will ship in July according to their last update. Eh what? We will see!

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Re: 3D printing advice

Post by Elminster » Sun Jun 21, 2020 11:02 am

Start shipping in July to one person who works at Creality maybe, but I think I have a shipping date of October on my survey form.

My psu is 380 (not 360 as I said) and it is smaller than the Meanwell, so I don’t think swapout is an issue,

The (filament) extruder was a pain in the ender3 by all accounts, CR6 is an improvement but I might still swap it out for a bondtech or maybe try a zesty nimble for better FPU. Swapping them takes 5 mins if you have all the right bits to hand. On my 3rd extruder on Huxley.

I think people aren’t toading to Creality particularly, just impressed with what you get for the cash. I think it is because the CR6 is one step closer to the sub £400 (dummy) consumer 3D printer.

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Re: 3D printing advice

Post by scruss » Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:42 pm

Yes, I know about the CR6 Meanwell PSU brouhaha, even being outside the Kickstarter drama. They're hard to make CE/UL compliant because they're considered a component. Without a proper case they have exposed mains terminals, so they wouldn't be considered safe on their own.

The other problem is knockoff power supplies. Shanzhai manufacturing might mean cheap toys for us, but if someone can make a buck or two printing up fake Meanwell stickers and slapping them on cheaper power supplies, it would take a very observant manufacturer to catch that. The first Ender 3s were a mess of dodgy parts put together wrongly. It was only sheer luck that prevented loss of life from crimp-on XT60s being soldered in place and overheating.

For all the hype, though, the CR6 sounds like a fun printer and one that'll just make stuff reliably and well.

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Re: 3D printing advice

Post by jonb » Sun Jun 21, 2020 3:30 pm

scruss wrote:
Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:42 pm
For all the hype, though, the CR6 sounds like a fun printer and one that'll just make stuff reliably and well.
Yes, that's how I read it. Not sure Creality themselves are hype mongers. More like the overexcited would-be owners (until the next shiny toy pops up). I confess: I was never, ever going to get involved in any crowdfunding platforms especially after the fiasco that was the ZX Spectrum Vega. Man what a bunch of shysters those guys were (are).

Anyone considering pledging cash on Kickstarter ought to watch this first: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPXOvNKdvUw *** NSFW ***

That said, in the case of Creality we are not dealing with a dodgy startup (as I said previously) so I had faith that I'd actually see the device I was backing.

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Re: 3D printing advice

Post by Elminster » Sun Jun 21, 2020 7:52 pm

Yes I wouldn’t have pledge that much on Kickstarter if it wasn’t obvious it was a marketing stunt.

Bondtech is well powerful, reel got jammed, it pulled over the solid oak two reel spool holder I made, freeing up the jam, carried on printing and didn’t skip a step that I could see/hear.

Next we should all build ourselves a voron 2.x

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Re: 3D printing advice

Post by jonb » Sun Jun 21, 2020 8:55 pm

What’s that?

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Re: 3D printing advice

Post by Elminster » Sun Jun 21, 2020 10:39 pm

Voron 2.4 is what all the cool kids are building these days. It is a core XY machine.

Edit: The Prusa filament looks really good value. If you don't mind orange it is same price as Amazon Basic. Although that does not include postage. Depends if you pay postage once, if you can get several reels shipped for one shipping price it is quite competitive by the looks of it. (I am looking in context of shipping to UK, rather than say Canada)

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Re: 3D printing advice

Post by scruss » Mon Jun 22, 2020 12:27 am

I've been guarding the spool of Prusa PLA I got with my printer last year. There's still about ⅕ left. It's really good. It's probably much cheaper in the UK than here, too.

It prints hot and fast for a really nice surface finish.

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Re: 3D printing advice

Post by jonb » Mon Jun 22, 2020 11:01 am

Shipping kills it a little, unless you buy lots of it. Not sure about the orange colour either!

Is the Amazon Basic stuff any good though?

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Re: 3D printing advice

Post by Elminster » Mon Jun 22, 2020 3:19 pm

Postage is okay if pay once and buy several reels. Other wise would be more expensive than amazon basics, but no more expensive than other brands on amazon. It seem interesting because they have a lot of colours and they actually have stock.

Managed to get my psu fan to come on with 4 hours of ABS printing in a sun filled room. Sounds like a jet engine. Didn’t have my sound meter to hand.

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Re: 3D printing advice

Post by scruss » Mon Jun 22, 2020 4:04 pm

The orange is not bad. Bright, yes, but quite warm. Prusa uses their signature orange PET-G for their machines.

Amazon Basics is perfectly fine. Every school I know uses it. It's a decent, middle of the road PLA. It's not super tough, but can give a nice finish. I'm not sure if there's a Cura preset for it, but generic PLA will work decently.

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Re: 3D printing advice

Post by Elminster » Mon Jun 22, 2020 9:19 pm

Main issue will Amazon Filament is that stock seems to be limtied to black, white or grey at the moment, I guess it is still shifting quickly.

Also what I tend to do it look on manufacturers website, find what I want and then look on Amazon as I find the search engine, for things like filament is very random on Amazon Marketplace (if you are buying non Amazon basic, as it is usually out of stock)

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Re: 3D printing advice

Post by scruss » Mon Jun 22, 2020 11:51 pm

It's all the folks printing medical facemasks that puts filament in short supply. Amazon Basics use to come in a bunch of useful colours

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Re: 3D printing advice

Post by Elminster » Tue Jun 23, 2020 12:03 am

Luckily my mum is making me a washable face mask.

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Re: 3D printing advice

Post by Elminster » Wed Jul 01, 2020 12:57 pm

As promised post of a upgraded Huxley. Stock photo of before as I don't really have a good one I took.

Image

And it now looks like
IMG_0517.JPEG
IMG_0516.JPEG
You can see the part quality change as the parts are printed as the printer improved, but I leave the older dodgy looking parts there as badges of honour. Biggest issue is cable management where there is nowhere to actually hide anything.

White ABS - Original Huxley Parts
Black & Dark Green - Sunlu PLA+
Bright Geen - Sunlu ABS

Off the top of my head upgrades are:
- Y Nema14 now a Nema17
- 5mm Tooled Aluminium Plate (Flat)
- Mainboard is not an BTT SKR 1.4 with TMC2209s
- Neopixel strip
- Hotend auto fan
- Controllable parts blower fan
- Higher Tolerance Parts
- E3D V6 hotend with (extra mod) 40 mm fan and titanium heat break
- Bondtech dual drive extruder
- Capricorn PFTE
- Whambam Flex build plate 165mmx165mm
- Build area now 150x150x85
- Silicone 24v heat pad 150x150
- 4 fixed bearing for both x and y carriages (instead of 2 fixed and 1 floating)
- RPI with Octoprint and Web Cam
- 380w 24v psu (instead of 120w 19v)
- GT2 pulleys with kevlar belts (instead of MXL)
- Extra bracing
- 3.5in TFT screen
- BLTouch
- Cleared out Z height so that no lose in Z print height due to other mods
- Custom part for extruder/motor (has space for filament sensor not yet fitted)
- Fixed couplers replacing plastic tubing
- Noctua electronic cooling fan
- Heatbed External Mosfet
- Removed all homing microswitches (uses sensorless homing and bltouch)
- Retroclinic BBC Master replacement sticky feet!

Knocked about 10dB of noise level, runs around 45dB.

Left to do is filament runout sensor, waiting for that to arrive, in hindsight I should have just made one from one of the endstop switches. Also have a small case printed for a buck booster so RPi can be powered form same powersupply, Have all the parts but not done as not sure if I want to.

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Re: 3D printing advice

Post by jonb » Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:50 pm

Bit of a mad professor special, that one... liking the Kawasaki colour scheme!

I bet it prints better than the CR6. Are you sure you want one? :lol:

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Re: 3D printing advice

Post by Elminster » Wed Jul 01, 2020 7:01 pm

jonb wrote:
Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:50 pm
Bit of a mad professor special, that one... liking the Kawasaki colour scheme!

I bet it prints better than the CR6. Are you sure you want one? :lol:
The story behind the mad colour was it was the only colour ABS I could get in a reasonably time frame at the time. In my younger years I had a black and purple zxr400, much like sitting on a very fast plank.

The limiting factor on the Huxley is the chassis. The CR6 can print decent,y at much higher speeds without shaking itself to pieces. Been playing about with slicers (S3d, Cura, prusaslicer and idea maker. Plan to look at kiss and craft works as well), the default speeds on Prusa slicer, I think were very fasts had to stop the print and slow everything down before printer vibrated off the table. Huxley is tinker machine, CR6 is just print the thing and be done with it.

Started dumping the makes here https://www.thingiverse.com/elminster_com/about

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Re: 3D printing advice

Post by jonb » Thu Jul 02, 2020 7:20 am

You have been busy! Must have been a lot of fun.

I suppose that the Huxley is pretty floppy with all that threaded rod in the frame, even with those neat little braces you designed. It might benefit from triangulation on the sides, starting from the top of the frame, going to the desk level. Of course, this will make it quite a bit wider.

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Re: 3D printing advice

Post by Elminster » Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:39 am

I have tried to not change the external dimensions. While I have pushed out the vertices they are now line with the x carriage so the actual width hasn’t change. It is a little higher, with those little motor risers, but other than that I haven’t changed the dimensions.

The braces are someone else’s make, I just used the In a different place. In theory they stop the movement of the frame when the x carriage accelerates but, as with most of these things, the actual effect is hard to measure.

I think the most benefit would be swapping rods for a super dense material, like found in a collapsed star. I will have a word with Space X.

As an aside, I still don’t like Cura, I tried to like it honest but the interface I just don’t click with. prusaslicer and idea maker are both quite nice. S3D has the best interface but have to pay for it and not had updates for a couple of years. Kiss 1.6 has an X interface from the 80s, although it isn’t actually to bad once you get into it, need to download Kiss Alpha 2.0, the problem with 1.6 is it is really hard to read the text in the old X11 style fonts.

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Re: 3D printing advice

Post by scruss » Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:58 pm

You're not alone in not liking Cura's interface. It was simple and clear in Cura 1.5, but in the 2.0 release and later it went all funny.

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Re: 3D printing advice

Post by Elminster » Thu Jul 02, 2020 9:04 pm

scruss wrote:
Thu Jul 02, 2020 5:58 pm
You're not alone in not liking Cura's interface. It was simple and clear in Cura 1.5, but in the 2.0 release and later it went all funny.
Ah not just me then.

I am liking Prusaslicer and Ideamaker. Kiss 2 alpha I have now look at and still has the unreadable font on Linux, which is a shame as the graphucal bits look okay.

Odd how different slicers have different issues. Prusa slicer I had to turn on Z hop to stop layer shifts. Both Cura and Ideamaker I had layer adhesion issues. I just upped the temp and flow and reduced the fan and speed, that fixed Ideamaker, assume same would work on Cura. That is doing a default setup as no profile for my machine.

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Re: 3D printing advice

Post by jonb » Thu Jul 09, 2020 9:40 am

I assume you have seen this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwN4gL-my4w

What do you think? I'm very impressed with the print quality he got.

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Re: 3D printing advice

Post by scruss » Fri Jul 10, 2020 3:32 am

I watched that (or as much as I could manage). Matte black filament always hides layers. Indeed, any black filament will do this. From the print temperature (high!) it looks like it has a high pigment and filler load. Potential for nozzle wear and clogging. It's also bloody expensive and the vid says it includes paid advertising. Nope.

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Re: 3D printing advice

Post by Elminster » Fri Jul 10, 2020 9:46 am

jonb wrote:
Thu Jul 09, 2020 9:40 am
I assume you have seen this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UwN4gL-my4w

What do you think? I'm very impressed with the print quality he got.
I didn’t click it as I assume it is the 3D printing nerd one. Yes I saw that.

I actually found black to show issues more rather than hide them, but then I mainly use black and white, and white material is almost impossible to see issues on.

I think as Scruss says, the filament was pretty expensive. If I can get results like that Ona CR6 with normally priced filament then that would be good. I get good results on the Huxley now but not that good.... maybe I should try really expensive filament ..... I guess it is the sort of filament (assuming some other reviews show good results) you could buy for special projects.

Reminds me after using two reels of filament printing benchys and a reel printing printer parts, I have spent the last week actually printing ‘useful’ stuff. Only took me 3 months to ‘dial in’ the printer, hopefully CR6 only takes advertised 20 mins

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Re: 3D printing advice

Post by scruss » Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:15 am

Elminster wrote:
Fri Jul 10, 2020 9:46 am
If I can get results like that on a CR6 with normally priced filament then that would be good.
I'm sure it's doable. I've just cracked open a spool of locally-made low-sheen tough PLA and it's rather good. Any attempts to take pictures to show layer detail have failed for me. It's not quite matte black, but it's close. Only about 10% more expensive than my usual filaments. Zero fiddling with settings on the Prusa, as usual.

There has to be a place in the UK that extrudes and packs Ingeo polymer material. I know of two in Canada, and we're not a particularly large market for anything. Unless you're wanting super-fancy filaments for special effects, the excess price isn't worth it. Steer clear of the very cheapest and you won't go wrong.

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Re: 3D printing advice

Post by Elminster » Thu Jul 23, 2020 10:30 am

Looks interesting. Some interesting filaments coming out at the moment. CNC kitchen recently r3viewed some composite ABS/Polycarbonate filaments that look interesting, although not as good as he hoped.

I noticed the recycle symbol by the manufacturer, I have checked for this particular manufacturer, but in general I don’t think filament manufacturer ps should be allowed to use recycle badge unless they offer a service themselves to recycle it. While you can re yo s the stuff, in the UK at least, it is pretty much impossible to find anyone.

As an aside I backed Sunlu’ spoolholder/drier ‘Kickstarter’, looks good and not that expensive. And even if an elephant you still end up with a okay spool holder.

Edit: filament wise I have been bouncing around sites like Amazon, 3djake, prusa and e3d.

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Re: 3D printing advice

Post by scruss » Sat Jul 25, 2020 8:02 pm

The Recycle symbol, in Canada at least, means "recyclable where facilities exist". It's effectively saying that the material is composed of a single polymer or material and could be included in the recycling stream. If the material were a composite (say fibre-reinforced, or the PC/ABS blend you mentioned*) it couldn't show the Recycle symbol. Every region in Canada has its own recycling foibles - here in this part Ontario milk cartons, paper cups and black food-grade plastic aren't recyclable. We don't have anything much like EPR (Extended Producer Responsibility) beyond small e-waste stewardship fees and (sensibly) much larger ones for car batteries.

The manufacturer has tried having a filament recycling scheme: the economics aren't there, though.

(and in other weird filament news, I'm having a horrible time with some Ingeo 3D850 HT-PLA. It won't even feed reliably at 230 °C on my Prusa at work. I bought some annealable 3D870 at the same time which I can't even think about right now.)

---
*: which sounds to me like about the worst filament imaginable, a horrible blend of high temperatures, foul smells and weird mechanical properties.

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