3D printing advice

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scruss
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Re: 3D printing advice

Post by scruss » Thu May 28, 2020 12:42 am

jonb wrote:
Wed May 27, 2020 4:23 pm
That's a good price, where do you buy it from and does it include delivery?
It is, but I'm inconveniently in Canada. Most places ship for free over $100 (= ~£60) here

Most of the big volume producers are okay. Amazon Basics is used by every school I know.

I have a dedicated filament dryer, which is a customized food dehydrator. It works well, but I'm sure a food dehydrator is just as good. Let's just say there was some government money left in the kitty a week before year end and we had to spend it on anything we could find ...

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Re: 3D printing advice

Post by jonb » Thu May 28, 2020 7:12 am

There's another review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9BDPS-a_g0

Not very informative, apart from the bit where he says the filament supplied with the machine isn't very good. Rather unhelpfully, he shows a different filament that looked to have printed really well, but doesn't say what brand it is.

Regarding the current high filament prices, could this be a temporary thing while the world is in lockdown and there's nowt to do but play with 3D printers (those that own them)?

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Re: 3D printing advice

Post by Elminster » Thu May 28, 2020 9:23 am

jonb wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 7:12 am
Regarding the current high filament prices, could this be a temporary thing while the world is in lockdown and there's nowt to do but play with 3D printers (those that own them)?
Almost certainly. The prices went up as soon as everyone either got bored and bought a printer to play with, or started printing out PPE equipment. Even in the week between me buying reels from the same manufacturer from the same place the price had gone up 20%, Supply and demand. I should think once all the existing and new printer owner go back to regular levels and demand drops supply will catch up and prices will drop again.

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Re: 3D printing advice

Post by Elminster » Thu May 28, 2020 9:28 am

jonb wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 7:12 am
There's another review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9BDPS-a_g0

Not very informative, apart from the bit where he says the filament supplied with the machine isn't very good. Rather unhelpfully, he shows a different filament that looked to have printed really well, but doesn't say what brand it is.
Hmm not come across this channel before in the 3dprinter context, I guess they have given them an exam as it is a high audience makers channel. Will watch the video later, looks quite short at 6 mins, much shorter than most of the reviews.

Not sure if Creality make there own filament or if it is a rebrand. But I expect as you burn through the first reel just making benches :) it should be fine.

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Re: 3D printing advice

Post by jonb » Thu May 28, 2020 11:51 am

Ha! I’m not going to make any stupid Benchies. Silly little thing that doesn’t even float! I note the propensity of 3D printer owners for making ornamental knickknacks and really, my study is cluttered enough.

Definitely will print some test objects though, just to get the settings dialled in. I know it is supposed to come with a Cura profile but I would be very surprised if it was spot on. Plus, “playtime”!

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Re: 3D printing advice

Post by Elminster » Thu May 28, 2020 2:11 pm

jonb wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 11:51 am
Ha! I’m not going to make any stupid Benchies. Silly little thing that doesn’t even float! I note the propensity of 3D printer owners for making ornamental knickknacks and really, my study is cluttered enough.

Definitely will print some test objects though, just to get the settings dialled in. I know it is supposed to come with a Cura profile but I would be very surprised if it was spot on. Plus, “playtime”!
You are right. I just tested one, they don’t float, not with PLA anyway.

Printed about 10 benches and a million other different tests but then my printer has no profile and even if it did it is a bit to custom. Been wrestling with a jam cause by heat creep. As it happened when I ordered various nozzles (spare 0.4, a 0.25 & 0.6 and a steel 0.4) I also ordered the e3d titanium heat break, so if that was the issue then that should fix it (edit: could also have been heartsick fan running at 19v instead of 24v while doing 8 hours of ABS at 240c, that now sorted). Also got fed up with the cloned Titan extruder so should have a real bondtech dual drive on the way.

Also the new psu arrived yesterday, replaced 120 watt 19v with 380 watt of 24v. Heated bed still has to run off the old psu though as not designed for 24v. Which now pretty much makes the Huxley higher spec and more expensive that the CR6. Hmmmm.

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Re: 3D printing advice

Post by jonb » Thu May 28, 2020 4:56 pm

You heard of thermal runaway, right?

I call that "upgrade runaway". :lol: But at least you have learned an awful lot about the machinery, and you can answer the question of "Just how far can I take a RepRap?" with authority.

My (rather obvious) reason to go with this model rather than an Ender 3 (or 3 Pro, which I was considering): I figured that, by the time I'd printed / bought all the relevant upgrades, I'd probably have spent more than the quoted retail amount for the CR6 SE, and not got the fancy auto level, colour touch screen, filament runout detector, carborundum build plate, wider Y axis carriage, dual Z drive and belt tensioners (before we even consider the 32 bit board / TMC2209s / spare nozzles and PTFE tube). Given I am paying the early bird price ($319+shipping), I'm very happy, and don't forget that the Y axis would probably be expensive to retrofit to an Ender 3. Dual Z screws too?

Hey, that's an interesting question. How much would it cost to upgrade an Ender 3 Pro to CR-6 spec? Not including the increased build area..?

Sure, we want an all metal hot end / direct extrusion, but what the hey, you can't have everything for $319. I am quite happy with the 32 bit board + 2209 drivers. Nozzles and PTFE tubing, meh. But special colours (for the $5M stretch goal) I really couldn't care less about. The machine looks great in black, even if it will take some dusting.

Apparently there will be an announcement this weekend regarding the CR6 MAX. I may jump ship if it's not too much more (and really, it shouldn't be - its just longer aluminium profile bars and a bigger build plate, plus software). The only thing I would be concerned about is additional ringing caused by the bigger frame, and that can be braced without too much bother.

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Re: 3D printing advice

Post by jonb » Thu May 28, 2020 5:34 pm

Answering my own question.. all prices from a well known auction site.
  • Ender 3 Pro £240
  • Z axis second stepper motor £10
  • Z axis second lead screw £8
  • Z axis second stepper motor to lead screw coupling £4
  • Z axis lead screw end support x 2 £7
  • Z axis 20T belt drive gear x 2 £8
  • Z axis synchronisation belt £5
  • BL Touch unit £50
  • Creality glass bed £30
  • BIGTREETECH SKR mini E3 control board 32Bit with TMC2209 £30
  • BIGTREETECH TFT35 V2.0 Touch Screen LCD Display £25 (I'm assuming compatibility with the control board)
  • Filament Runout detector with cable and bracket - £8
  • 3D filament to print upgrades (belt tensioner, tray, LCD cover, other bits) £10 (a guess, it's 1/2 a 1kg spool)
  • 10 spare nozzles & PTFE Bowden tube - say £10
  • Sundries (screws, nuts, wires, etc) - say £10
Total: £441

..and that's without attempting to upgrade the Y carriage, which (on the CR6) is even wider than the Ender 3 Pro. A lot of these parts ship independently from China so there'd be an arbitrary wait to get them. Even after applying all that to an Ender 3, you'd still not have as nice a printer...

Given that my pledge is about £261 (and bearing in mind it will ship from Creality's EU warehouse, so no additional VAT or duties to pay) I'm feeling pretty chipper. I expect you are too, Elminster. Strangely there are still over 800 opportunities to back at this price as of this post.

Bargain. :D

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Re: 3D printing advice

Post by Elminster » Thu May 28, 2020 6:15 pm

You missed the cost of time. You can expect to spend several weeks designing, fitting, shouting as you upgrade Ender to CR6 spec. Which may or may not float you non floating benchy.

I will probably stick to CR6 unless the price difference is tiny,mor it has a killer feature. Not sure I can bother to spend time mucking about upgrading CR6 as well. Unlike you I don’t have plans to built huge enclosures. Come to think of it I don’t even have anything to print I can’t just squeeze onto Huxley.

I could get away with a pseudo direct drive if I got the Nimble, that would allow printing of flexible.

Yes the Early bird is up to about 8000 units now.

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Re: 3D printing advice

Post by scruss » Fri May 29, 2020 3:13 am

jonb wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 11:51 am
Definitely will print some test objects though, just to get the settings dialled in. I know it is supposed to come with a Cura profile but I would be very surprised if it was spot on. Plus, “playtime”!
I think you might be surprised how good these Cura profiles are. There's not much variation to commercial machines.

The filament that comes with the CR6 has to be better than the tiny loop of crumbly white goo that came with my Ender 3. There wasn't even enough to finish the sample print!

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Re: 3D printing advice

Post by jonb » Fri May 29, 2020 8:47 am

I sure hope so, scruss. However, I've seen one review that said the supplied stuff wasn't much good (albeit, on a beta test machine). Have been looking around for filament. It's flippin' expensive right now... all those 3D printed PPE visors and masks I expect.

I'm still haven't found a good 3D printing forum. Meaning by that, a forum with a decent number of users that works like this one as opposed to a Reddit or Facebook group. Cannot stand those formats, it's almost impossible to search them and follow threads. Any suggestions? Also, frustrating to watch yooootubez and not be able to ask a question. I mean, some are informative but you're only getting what the presenter wants to convey.

Example: The CR6 modular hot end has a metal sleeve that passes through the heat sink on its way to the heater block. It's machined to take a Bowden tube all the way to the nozzle. It should be possible to make a sleeve that is machined for the filament width (1.75mm) with a shoulder for the Bowden tube to sit on, such that it is away from the heat. This would convert the hot end to "all metal", in effect, and thus allow for higher printing temperatures. All for the cost of a tiny machined sleeve. Several people asked on the CR6 Kickstarter if this is feasible, but Creality haven't answered (as they have not answered many of the more interesting questions).

What you you think?

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Re: 3D printing advice

Post by Elminster » Fri May 29, 2020 9:20 am

jonb wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 8:47 am
I sure hope so, scruss. However, I've seen one review that said the supplied stuff wasn't much good (albeit, on a beta test machine). Have been looking around for filament. It's flippin' expensive right now... all those 3D printed PPE visors and masks I expect.
Only the make it one that said filament was not good, the others I don’t remember commenting on it. Might have been a bad batch. Also the you tube channels often have filament sponsorship ....... so it will probably be fine. Certainly just for destroying while working out what is what. (I hope so anyway).

I'm still haven't found a good 3D printing forum. Meaning by that, a forum with a decent number of users that works like this one as opposed to a Reddit or Facebook group. Cannot stand those formats, it's almost impossible to search them and follow threads. Any suggestions? Also, frustrating to watch yooootubez and not be able to ask a question. I mean, some are informative but you're only getting what the presenter wants to convey.
I am on the Facebook forums but rarely post, Reddit I had never used before 3D printing but I am gradually getting to grips with it as it is better than Facebook, although generally less traffic (not sure if that is a good or bad point, probably good).

Also now on the google group ‘3D printing tips and tricks’ which is related to the 3D printing podcast I mentioned way back up the top of the thread.

Short of getting the admins to add a 3D printing topic here, or starting your own board I am not sure you will find a ‘stardot like’ phpbb style board that is still active.

I gave up on thingiverse forums, they are pretty much dead. Opposite issue to Facebook where too much traffic.

Example: The CR6 modular hot end has a metal sleeve that passes through the heat sink on its way to the heater block. It's machined to take a Bowden tube all the way to the nozzle. It should be possible to make a sleeve that is machined for the filament width (1.75mm) with a shoulder for the Bowden tube to sit on, such that it is away from the heat. This would convert the hot end to "all metal", in effect, and thus allow for higher printing temperatures. All for the cost of a tiny machined sleeve. Several people asked on the CR6 Kickstarter if this is feasible, but Creality haven't answered (as they have not answered many of the more interesting questions).

What you you think?
I think it wouldn’t work very well and you would end up inhaling toxic burning PTFE, as you have no heat break. The hotend is aluminium (or copper on high temp ones) but the heat break is a much less heat conductive material like titanium or stainless steel. So fitting an insert doesn’t put a full heat brake in. You could make your insert out of stainless steel but the outside being aluminium it would bypass it, so wouldn’t be effective as a heat break. Or the plastic would find a way into a joins and jam it all up. Not sure it is worth the risk

I bet it won’t belong before someone comes up with a kit to mount a micro Swiss or e3d hotend into the CR6.

Edit: Thinking more about it, if you could do it and make it work I bet jams from heat creep but be such an issue you would give up and rip it out and put in a properly designed all metal hotend anyway, if you were doing super hot filament anyway. Also the aluminium heat block distorts at 350c, which is why the all metal hotends have the option to fit the copper plated heat blocks and nozzles that will go to over 500C.

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Re: 3D printing advice

Post by jonb » Fri May 29, 2020 9:39 am

Elminster wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 9:20 am

I think it wouldn’t work very well and you would end up inhaling toxic burning PTFE, as you have no heat break. The hotend is aluminium (or copper on high temp ones) but the heat break is a much less heat conductive material like titanium or stainless steel. So fitting an insert doesn’t put a full heat brake in. You could make your insert out of stainless steel but the outside being aluminium it would bypass it, so wouldn’t be effective as a heat break. Or the plastic would find a way into a joins and jam it all up. Not sure it is worth the risk
I have to defer to your superior knowledge on this one.. but what I am describing moves the Bowden tube further from the heat, not nearer, so it seems counter intuitive to suggest it will get hotter. You'd just need to machine the replacement sleeve from the right material, surely?

Consider this picture of the hotend components. The machined tube is arrowed, I think this is the heat brake, not an insert. It appears to screw into the heated block. The Bowden tube goes through this right to the nozzle. So if a copy was machined so only the filament went through it with the Bowden tube sitting at the cold end, the result would be an all metal hot end, in effect (if I have the right understanding of the differences). And it is just one tiny threaded tube.

Inkedmodular hot end_LI.jpg

I bet it won’t belong before someone comes up with a kit to mount a micro Swiss or e3d hotend into the CR6.
Agreed, but it'll be expensive compared to a replacement heat brake.

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Re: 3D printing advice

Post by Elminster » Fri May 29, 2020 10:01 am

jonb wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 9:39 am
Elminster wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 9:20 am

I think it wouldn’t work very well and you would end up inhaling toxic burning PTFE, as you have no heat break. The hotend is aluminium (or copper on high temp ones) but the heat break is a much less heat conductive material like titanium or stainless steel. So fitting an insert doesn’t put a full heat brake in. You could make your insert out of stainless steel but the outside being aluminium it would bypass it, so wouldn’t be effective as a heat break. Or the plastic would find a way into a joins and jam it all up. Not sure it is worth the risk
I have to defer to your superior knowledge on this one.. but what I am describing moves the Bowden tube further from the heat, not nearer, so it seems counter intuitive to suggest it will get hotter. You'd just need to machine the replacement sleeve from the right material, surely?
You just misunderstood what I mean. If you use it in the same way as before then indeed it will not get hotter, but then no point in doing it. So if the whole point in putting in an all metal end is to run the hotend hotter to use different materials, that heat is going to creep up faster than a real all metal hotend, and if it doesn't have adequate cooling or can't cool fast enough it will get much hotter the designed for, and if that heat reaches the temp at which PTFE stars to go horrible, you kill all your pets. You wont get that issue with a real all metal hotend.

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Re: 3D printing advice

Post by Elminster » Fri May 29, 2020 10:13 am

jonb wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 9:39 am

Consider this picture of the hotend components. The machined tube is arrowed, I think this is the heat brake, not an insert. It appears to screw into the heated block. The Bowden tube goes through this right to the nozzle. So if a copy was machined so only the filament went through it with the Bowden tube sitting at the cold end, the result would be an all metal hot end, in effect (if I have the right understanding of the differences). And it is just one tiny threaded tube.


Inkedmodular hot end_LI.jpg

I havent actually looked at the hotend for the CR6 until now.

Yep that is the heat break. Okay so that might be possible but not sure that is practical cost wise. Would be very expensive, relatively. If you compare to say the 2209 upgrade, swapping to 2209 costs virtually nothing, and the form factor for the pick and place machine is identical. But redesigning for a different heat break is not going to be the pennies that the other stretch goals that have done will be. And how many people who buy the CR6 are actually going to print in anything but PLA and PETG? I just don't think it makes sense for Creality to do it.

Also don't forget they might have to change both the thermistor and heat cartridge as well, and the issue with heat creep being an issue is still relevant for something not originally designed as an all metal hotend.

I am not sure it is a simple as jsut creating a new part. Which is probably why Creality haven't got back to people yet, probably working out if it is worth doing.

It would be good if they did, but I would rather have them design a proper all metal hotend upgrade than jury rig it.
I bet it won’t belong before someone comes up with a kit to mount a micro Swiss or e3d hotend into the CR6.
Agreed, but it'll be expensive compared to a replacement heat brake.
Yes but that clone E3D hotend from an mainstream Chinesse manufactured cost a few £'s so not really expensive compared to creating a custom part

Edit: With Linear Advance (Marlin) and Pressure Advance (reprap on duet) the ooze issue of all metal hotends should be much reduced, so have to wonder in the future if any point in not having all metal hotends.
Last edited by Elminster on Fri May 29, 2020 10:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: 3D printing advice

Post by Elminster » Fri May 29, 2020 10:17 am

jonb wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 9:39 am

I have to defer to your superior knowledge on this one..
Best not to, I only have a few weeks more experience than you and I make it up as I go along.

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Re: 3D printing advice

Post by Elminster » Fri May 29, 2020 10:46 am

Slight aside, but following up on a question a while back, I use Octoprint and have plugin addiction. Having over 50 plugins installed. This new plugin is out that integrates with several other plugins. Looks really useful

https://plugins.octoprint.org/plugins/PrintJobHistory/

So using this plugin with the filament managers etc. You can track complete filament usage and costs across printing jobs automatically.

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Re: 3D printing advice

Post by jonb » Fri May 29, 2020 9:58 pm

Creality are now saying there won't be a Meanwell PSU fitted to the CR-6 SE.

Siting supply shortages. It's in the KS comments section. Many backers are threatening to cancel.

https://www.reddit.com/r/CR6/comments/g ... witcheroo/

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Re: 3D printing advice

Post by Elminster » Fri May 29, 2020 11:52 pm

jonb wrote:
Fri May 29, 2020 9:58 pm
Creality are now saying there won't be a Meanwell PSU fitted to the CR-6 SE.

Siting supply shortages. It's in the KS comments section. Many backers are threatening to cancel.

https://www.reddit.com/r/CR6/comments/g ... witcheroo/
I guess it depends what they put in its place, Meanwell arent the only branded psu supplier in the world.

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Re: 3D printing advice

Post by scruss » Sat May 30, 2020 12:49 am

The Teflon tube not just reduces oozing, but it also prevents the warm (but not quite melted) filament from sticking inside the hotend. All-metai requires an incredibly smooth inner bore, so they are much more expensive to make.

I really don't think you'll find a 3d printing forum like Stardot, as there are very few forums with the respectful, ego-free style that Stardot has. 3d printing has a lot of hype, and so there are overly strong opinions often from under-qualified commentators.

Regarding the CR6 power supply, sure, there are other PSUs apart from Meanwell. But Meanwell tend to be better quality and often CE marked. Using a non-CE mark component in some locations (schools, for one) is inviting trouble.

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Re: 3D printing advice

Post by jonb » Sat May 30, 2020 7:58 am

Fortunately, Creality have resolved their supply issues (apparently) and are now saying that the printers will have a Meanwell PSU after all.

Of course there are other branded Chinese PSUs that are no doubt as good as or better than Meanwell PSUs, but I don't know any of them. On the other hand I've a few MW PSUs around my lair and they all perform well.

I've had a couple of bad experiences with cheap Chinese PSUs. Fortunately none of them took out any of my precious retro computers, but since the last explosion I've always gone for MW.

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Re: 3D printing advice

Post by Elminster » Sat May 30, 2020 9:37 am

It is all relatively anyway. If the original PSUs hadn’t been unbranded and dodgedly fitted on early Creality machines then I doubt many people would be worried about the PSU. After all do you take apart every consumer electronics product (I think Creality can now be considered a consumer electronics company, rather then a cheap knock off company now) you buy to see what PSU is in it? Most of them would probably be custom made for the product anyway.

Edit: I wonder if that means there might be delays in shipping some printers, I.e. I wonder if this means they have a commitment from Meanwell that they intern can actually supplies enough PSUs in the time frame required.
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Re: 3D printing advice

Post by Elminster » Sat May 30, 2020 9:54 am

scruss wrote:
Sat May 30, 2020 12:49 am
I really don't think you'll find a 3d printing forum like Stardot, as there are very few forums with the respectful, ego-free style that Stardot has. 3d printing has a lot of hype, and so there are overly strong opinions often from under-qualified commentators.
Agree.

There is certainly a lot of emotion involved about whether direct drive or Bowden is best. But hybrid solutions like zesty nimble will solved that debate.

Also lots of conflicting info about things like doing your esteps for extruder. You will see info to do a) as is b) with Bowden off the hotend, c) with Bowden off completely.

There also seems to be a bit of friction between the ‘old guard’ pre-you tube 3D printers and the new generation (although I am not sure the new generation notice). And you see things like ‘if you cannot level a bed you should not have a printer’, when the technology exists to do it automatically and (I guess arguably) doing it better or and consistently, which for a new owner who just want to prints stuff is all they need. I.e. if I wanted to give one a 3D printer to my mum, she would give up at the levelling bed stuff. Bed surface is another one whether people get excited.

You also tend to see a difference in the types of people using Facebook, Reddit or others.

I think it is getting close to the stage where anyone can operate a printer, I think the issue is now more, what to do when prints start going wrong after working fine for the first few months, or people starting to branch into ABS, Nylon and other harder to print filament.

But when you compare my circa 2014 Huxley to what you can get now ...

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Re: 3D printing advice

Post by Elminster » Sat May 30, 2020 1:06 pm

Well your CR6 Max is announced. To rich for my needs, with stick with smaller one. Will probably add the new flexi build plate add on, maybe nozzle kit when they confirm what is actually in it.

If I remember correctly the glass plate is uncoated on one side, so might be able to stick magnet to untreated side. Then you can use glass one way round and flip it to use flexi. I am assume flexi from the picture, all description just says PEI.

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Re: 3D printing advice

Post by scruss » Sat May 30, 2020 6:09 pm

Elminster wrote:
Sat May 30, 2020 9:54 am
There is certainly a lot of emotion involved about whether direct drive or Bowden is best. But hybrid solutions like zesty nimble will solved that debate.
Ooh, I saw them at MRRF last year. Looks like it adds a whole lot of backlash, because that torque cable and gearbox has a bunch of windup, and so you have to fiddle with retraction settings. You'll be on team direct drive 4 lyfe if you've ever had to fish 30+ pieces of shattered PLA, each less than 10 mm long, out of your Bowden tube after a particularly bad filament experience.
Also lots of conflicting info about things like doing your esteps for extruder.
This is something that only having a homebrew printer do you need to worry about. On the Prusa, Ender 3 and the PrintrBot, you just load the config and go. I don't think I know where I'd find esteps on those machines. It's not something that regular users need to think about.
There also seems to be a bit of friction between the ‘old guard’ pre-you tube 3D printers and the new generation
tbh the 3d printer is the least interesting part. It's what you can do with it that matters.
I think it is getting close to the stage where anyone can operate a printer
It's already here. While it's ridiculously expensive, you should try one of the Dremel printers. You don't have to know anything. Hit print, get a thing. I think the Dremel even appears under Windows 10's 3d print service automatically, if it's on the same network. Hit print in your app, 3d printer goes brrrr.

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Re: 3D printing advice

Post by Elminster » Sat May 30, 2020 7:08 pm

scruss wrote:
Sat May 30, 2020 6:09 pm
Elminster wrote:
Sat May 30, 2020 9:54 am
There is certainly a lot of emotion involved about whether direct drive or Bowden is best. But hybrid solutions like zesty nimble will solved that debate.
Ooh, I saw them at MRRF last year. Looks like it adds a whole lot of backlash, because that torque cable and gearbox has a bunch of windup, and so you have to fiddle with retraction settings. You'll be on team direct drive 4 lyfe if you've ever had to fish 30+ pieces of shattered PLA, each less than 10 mm long, out of your Bowden tube after a particularly bad filament experience.
Supposedly the V2 is excellent for when you need direct drive but can only have a Bowden. That was from an independent cynic, so sounds promising. It is the only way you could probably get direct drive on something like a Huxley or a delta. I expect once others pickup on it they will get developed more. Interesting idea anyway.
Also lots of conflicting info about things like doing your esteps for extruder.
This is something that only having a homebrew printer do you need to worry about. On the Prusa, Ender 3 and the PrintrBot, you just load the config and go. I don't think I know where I'd find esteps on those machines. It's not something that regular users need to think about
That will be me then with bond tech extruder arriving Wednesday, and replaced Mxl with gt2 belt today, for no real reason.
I think it is getting close to the stage where anyone can operate a printer
It's already here. While it's ridiculously expensive, you should try one of the Dremel printers. You don't have to know anything. Hit print, get a thing. I think the Dremel even appears under Windows 10's 3d print service automatically, if it's on the same network. Hit print in your app, 3d printer goes brrrr.
But that is my point ... We aren’t there. Not until we have that functionally for sub $500 dollars/pounds (I.e. ender3/CR6/price). My yard stick is, when my mum can do it Without daily help and without spending a lot of money it has reached the average consumer. (I exclude MS windows from this, people seem to use it but I gave up on windows for my mum and gave her macOS).

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Elminster
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Re: 3D printing advice

Post by Elminster » Sat May 30, 2020 7:12 pm

scruss wrote:
Sat May 30, 2020 6:09 pm
Elminster wrote:
Sat May 30, 2020 9:54 am
There is certainly a lot of emotion involved about whether direct drive or Bowden is best. But hybrid solutions like zesty nimble will solved that debate.
Ooh, I saw them at MRRF last year. Looks like it adds a whole lot of backlash, because that torque cable and gearbox has a bunch of windup, and so you have to fiddle with retraction settings. You'll be on team direct drive 4 lyfe if you've ever had to fish 30+ pieces of shattered PLA, each less than 10 mm long, out of your Bowden tube after a particularly bad filament experience.
And jealous about MRRF that always sounds like a blast. Don’t see me getting to one of those even if the world wasn’t locked down.

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Re: 3D printing advice

Post by jonb » Sun May 31, 2020 8:20 am

scruss wrote:
Sat May 30, 2020 6:09 pm
tbh the 3d printer is the least interesting part. It's what you can do with it that matters.
Agree 100%. Yet the 3D printing community seems to spend as much time printing upgrades for their printers than something useful. Kind of "art for art's sake". So, hats off to Christoph Laimer for his 600W 3D printed motor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NFvMC3l3fGY

Colour me astounded!

To the printer itself, then: I'm only interested in making sure I get the best bang for my buck. Sure, I could upgrade endlessly in a sort of cycle, but if the printer already has the upgrades the total cost goes down (as I hope I demonstrated earlier). So far I am pretty sure the CR6SE is going to be as close to the best as it's possible to get, for the money (Kickstarter price). Now need to hope the filament comes down in price...

Regarding the add-ons; I've gone for the PEI bed and steel nozzle kit on top of those items I already mentioned. It's put the pledge up by a fair old whack and I am rapidly approaching £400 all in. Hmmm, maybe I should reconsider!

:lol:

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Re: 3D printing advice

Post by Elminster » Sun May 31, 2020 9:12 am

So you didn’t swap to the Max then.

I guess not upgrading/ease of use is a double edge sword. I.e. once it isn’t practical or economical to upgrade, and your average person is using the, you are into the throw away consumer electronics.

I.e. once, like Huxley 3D printers, I had my main use computer in bits as much as I was using it, these days I might not doing anything to it for years and then just replace it. Of course it is much harder to actually upgrade them these days without a lot of kit.

Edit: not to late to build your own https://www.reddit.com/r/3Dprinting/com ... plete_just

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Re: 3D printing advice

Post by Elminster » Sun May 31, 2020 10:24 pm

Also added nozzle kit and pei bed for CR6 Not sure if I mentioned I already have 0.4 steel, 0.25 & 0.6 brass for the Huxley (But not used them).

Managed to knock off another 5 decibels, it is running around average of 50dbels. Was Not intended but a side effect of improving tolerances (completely new carriage 4 bearings instead of 3), idlers, gt2 pulleys, belts, rigid steel couplers etc), less slop I guess makes for less noise. Unlikely to get any quieter as noctua don’t make a 30mm fan, and no room for 40mm on hotend, and that is loudest thing, although switches off when hotend below 50c. Parts fan is radial and noctua don’t do those either, but again off when not needed.

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