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how to connect and use this fan timer

Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 2:41 pm
by duikkie
see the picture

someone no me [-X disconnected the timer

how to connect we have two red wires soldered on a metal plate ?

a isolation layer with thermal protector 70 C white wire

how to connect on L(live) , N and T

Re: how to connect and use this fan timer

Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 3:01 pm
by gidandridge
Humm,

So I'm not sure on the device in the pictures. Looks like it may be a thermal device of some time? A thermal cut-out or thermostat of some sort? Really not sure. Guess that's step '4' in the diagram. :?

However the wiring diagram seems fairly straight forward. It seems to show AC power going to the fan but diverted via the switched output of a separate timer.

So on the terminal block it seems like 'N' should be connected direct to the Neutral of the AC input. Then the 'L' from the Live AC goes to the supply of the switched output of an external timer. Then the output from that goes to 'T'.

So on the wiring diagram I guess the switch marked 'A' would probably be controlled by a relay in the external timer.

That's how it looks to me. Unless anyone else has another take on it?

EDIT: Okay now I'm starting to think that the photos are of the timer. So perhaps power is applied (from the light?) to the two red leads and then the middle component is thermally activated and act's as a switch? The switch called 'A'? #-o I think we need someone who has has put in one of these before? Sorry! :(

Re: how to connect and use this fan timer

Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 3:20 pm
by 1024MAK
The following assumes that the fan timer continues to operate the fan for a number of minutes after the user has turned it off with the switch. In other words, a ‘run on’ timer.

The black box does look like a PTC or similar heating element. The white rectangle marked 70 (with the white wires) looks like a thermal switch.
So I making an educated guess that the red wires to the heating element should be connected to the fan thermal block, on the L and N terminals. Then the incoming mains supply ‘L’ wire connects to an external control switch, the other terminal of this switch then connects to the ‘L’ terminal in the fan. The white wires to the black box timer are then wired across the external switch. The incoming mains ‘N’ wire connects to the ‘N’ terminal in the fan.

Usual disclaimer: I’m making a number of assumptions here, if it goes bang and leaves soot skid marks everywhere, at least post photos so everyone can have a laugh :mrgreen:

Mark

Re: how to connect and use this fan timer

Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 5:46 pm
by duikkie
the wires in picture 7 are maybe wrong. this is blue wires on N and L if you do connect it this way the fan will never stop :shock:

the OP62uchiya is a thermal protector which is very high if temp is to high ?
so one white wire must be on L the other CAN NOT ON N short circuit if normal temp so it must be on T

then the to metal plates i think this is a condensator ? or something like that ??

so i think one red wire on N and the other on T

if your wc light is on this plates will load with T as LIVE

so where to put the bleu wires of the fan one on N and the other on T

if wc light is on fan will turn with N and T=(live)

is light is off no L(=t) from main power broken by A

because the red wires are loaded with power ??? the fan will turn by unloading N and T

what do other people think about that ??? :?:

Re: how to connect and use this fan timer

Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 6:08 pm
by duikkie
picture

Re: how to connect and use this fan timer

Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 6:13 pm
by 1024MAK
I’ve never seen a condensator / capacitor like that before...

Mark

Re: how to connect and use this fan timer

Posted: Sat Dec 28, 2019 6:34 pm
by duikkie
maybe it is something else :)

but a capacitor is something that load between metal en an isolator

but the blue fan wires must be on T and N and not as picture 7

i can't find a schematic how to connect a thermal protector but i think
it is always in the live line ?
1024MAK wrote:
Sat Dec 28, 2019 6:13 pm
I’ve never seen a condensator / capacitor like that before...

Mark

Re: how to connect and use this fan timer

Posted: Sun Dec 29, 2019 9:22 am
by gidandridge
So turns out that it is indeed a thermally operated switch ...

http://www.uchiya.co.jp/OtherContet/Sei ... hHTML.html

Normally open, the contacts close when it gets hot. The two metal plates must heat it up.

I think the two red leads would be connected to the power across your light. That way when you enter the room and turn on the light the plates get hot and the thermostat closes. The two white leads then go across L and T. This would mean the power would now flow from L to the fan motor.

When you leave the room you switch the light off and the plates now start to cool down. This takes a while (a couple of minutes) and so that fan continues to run. Once the plates are cold enough the thermostat cools and it opens again, cutting power to the fan.

However, like Mark said,if it just goes bang please post the photos. :D

Re: how to connect and use this fan timer

Posted: Sun Dec 29, 2019 8:10 pm
by duikkie
the op62uchiya can no be connected to L and T
because if the light is switch off (broken by a) and the heat is above 70 C
the light will go ON :(

so i think the white wires must be on T and on a blue wire of the fan ( not connected to T,N or L)
other to N

now how to connect the red wires for warming above 70 C ?
NOT L and N (for ever warm) i think T and N (warm if light is on)

Re: how to connect and use this fan timer

Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 11:40 am
by gidandridge
duikkie wrote:
Sun Dec 29, 2019 8:10 pm
the op62uchiya can no be connected to L and T
because if the light is switch off (broken by a) and the heat is above 70 C
the light will go ON :(
I don't think it would, the fan would come on yes - but not the light. I Don't think 'a' is the light switch - but I can't see the legend. :) I had read 'a' to represent the thermostatic switch.

I think the light switch could be connected across the two red wires. So when it's on it applies heat to the thermostatic switch. You then use the thermostatic switch to turn on the fan. I think it then means that when the light switch is off you've cut power to the red wires. So it slowly cools down and that takes time. So the fan runs until it cools below 70c.

Of course this is a 'theory' only - I can't see everything that you can. So I would suggest you start with the assumption that I'm wrong!

Plug and pray! [-o<

Re: how to connect and use this fan timer

Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:08 pm
by gidandridge
Something like this perhaps?

Exploding components may come free with this wiring arrangement. I'm making some assumptions to get this far. Things may go bang! :shock: Here ends my disclaimer. :wink:

Re: how to connect and use this fan timer

Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 2:26 pm
by duikkie
NOT working YET #-o

but we are a little bit further

the OP62 is working with a paintstripper(heater)

see picture like above

i still can't see how the two conductive metal plates are warming up ???

i think something is still missing

i don't see how a live power line ( single) will warm the plate ??
the same for the N if on red wire ?

close circuit will give heat ( and bang)

i am thinking about a capitator , somehow over red=live to N ( in or out fase) a little time close circuit ?

red wire on T and other on N do not give heat ( and i can not see why between N and L it will give heat )

red on T and L ( likes stupid two live wires in fase) ??

NO BANG YET [-o<

Re: how to connect and use this fan timer

Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 2:28 pm
by duikkie
schematic like below is working , IF the red wire and plates are warming up what is NOT the case
gidandridge wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 12:08 pm
Something like this perhaps?

Exploding components may come free with this wiring arrangement. I'm making some assumptions to get this far. Things may go bang! :shock: Here ends my disclaimer. :wink:

Re: how to connect and use this fan timer

Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 2:37 pm
by duikkie
a resistor over N and T will give heat , but how to make that is not to warm and not to cold
that is the big Question

Re: how to connect and use this fan timer

Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:13 pm
by 1024MAK

Re: how to connect and use this fan timer

Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:17 pm
by gidandridge
duikkie wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 2:26 pm
i still can't see how the two conductive metal plates are warming up ???
Well, to be honest, me neither! :? I'm kind of assuming that they offer some sort of resistance. When you fit it all back together have you tried to measure the resistance with a multi-meter?
i think something is still missing
Agreed - you could well be missing some components that would be the magic part of the puzzle!
i don't see how a live power line ( single) will warm the plate ??
the same for the N if on red wire ?

close circuit will give heat ( and bang)
But would be fun to watch! :shock: :lol:
i am thinking about a capitator , somehow over red=live to N ( in or out fase) a little time close circuit ?
Not sure on that. However I see in one of the photos it looks like all the red/white wires are go to something - but I can't see what. Is there some insulation tape binding them together, or a plug, or small bit of circuit? Can't really see. Just wondering if something is indeed missing from there. :(

Re: how to connect and use this fan timer

Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:20 pm
by gidandridge
:D - Cheers Mark, Seems very likely that it's something like this.

Duikkie - time to connect and pray? [-o<

Re: how to connect and use this fan timer

Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:32 pm
by 1024MAK
AB128C7F-3085-4FA5-8E88-5381427D878A.jpeg
D3C6BCEC-60FC-478C-ACAE-631FAD9963FC.jpeg
Mark

Re: how to connect and use this fan timer

Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:35 pm
by gidandridge
:D - I think you could be right.

It would all make sense if that was the case.

Re: how to connect and use this fan timer

Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:40 pm
by 1024MAK
In the U.K. fans with a “run on delay” are sold as one unit. As far as I know, most use a small electronic module / circuit board to time the delay time before switch off.

Here is a web page describing the typical wiring http://wiki.diyfaq.org.uk/index.php/Ext ... th_a_timer

The three pole isolation switch is provided so that the fan can be changed, serviced, maintained or cleaned without turning off the lighting circuit. The three pole isolation switch is normally fitted next to the fan.
An alternative is to feed the light and the fan circuit via a two pole isolation switch that is outside the bathroom/shower room.

Mark

Re: how to connect and use this fan timer

Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 4:35 pm
by duikkie
i did connect the two red wires ONE at T and one at N . leave the light on for a time
but no fan was turning. the black box was not warm :(

but i will look at ptc and the between plate :)
maybe bad connection ?
and how to measure ptc.

what i have seen looks like plastic plate maybe someone lose the ptc plate by opening the box
and replace it with plastic ?


gidandridge wrote:
Mon Dec 30, 2019 3:20 pm
:D - Cheers Mark, Seems very likely that it's something like this.

Duikkie - time to connect and pray? [-o<

Re: how to connect and use this fan timer

Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 6:56 pm
by duikkie
measure the plastic plate give zero ohm

measure the two red wires gives > 10 M ohm

zo bad connection , if you open chinees things you never
get it back :)
also the op62 (1 mm more) than the PTC plate

so pushing on the black box gives 0 ohm on red wire :)

tomorrow i will test with 240 volt

Re: how to connect and use this fan timer

Posted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 9:05 pm
by gidandridge
Sounds promising. Good luck! [-o<

Re: how to connect and use this fan timer

Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 3:17 pm
by duikkie
NO fireworks or total black out :( :( :( :(

SUCCES

so it was a plate of PTC

the only thing is it has a delay . (yeah)

to start the fan it takes 1 min and 15 sec

after turning off it spins for 1 min 30 sec

i think the startup delay is because i think maybe therminal pasta was used ?

that will allso help if the light is out longer spin.


so the black box contains:
two conductive metal plates
one PTC plate and one OP62

one wire on T , OP62 on L and fan, one wire on N

Re: how to connect and use this fan timer

Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 4:15 pm
by gidandridge
Awesome!! Sounds like that's all good then! :D Well done. 8)

I think the start up delay is a good thing. You don't want it to come on for short trips to the bathroom. If someone just pops in the night for quick use. I think it is better for it to come on only after the bathroom has been in use for a bit. :wink:

Glad you got it to work! :D

Re: how to connect and use this fan timer

Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 5:12 pm
by 1024MAK
👍 :D =D>

Mark