Retro upgrades, value for money, eBay & why bother?

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leenew
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Re: Retro upgrades, value for money, eBay & why bother?

Post by leenew » Mon Feb 18, 2019 1:40 pm

The balance of the universe is restored 8)

Lee

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Re: Retro upgrades, value for money, eBay & why bother?

Post by BeebMaster » Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:02 pm

Very good news!

I used to always have listings on E-bay for years. it wasn't so bad when I started in around 2002/2003, it really felt like it was the online equivalent of classified ads except with bidding added, but over time it became more corporate and the site became overpopulated with professional sellers. It just brought too much expectation lumped upon small-scale hobbyist sellers like many of us here for it to be worth all the heartache.

Nowadays I only sell when I've got plenty of stock and when I'm going to be around throughout the whole of the buy-now listing period so that I can comply with the post-within-5-mins-of-payment-or-we-chop-your-hands-off mentality.

I think all of us on here who sell anything tend to give unlimited free after-sales help, sometimes over a period of months or even years, and we do it for love of our 8-bit world.

I'm very precious of my own 100% feedback rating and to be honest I'd almost rather not risk selling anything else on there than risk something going wrong and harming my rating.

Really though I haven't had many problems over the years. One buyer of an 8271 disc kit wanted to send it back because he said the 8271 was "scuffed", so I said what do you expect for a 20-year-old (as it then would have been) new-old-stock-microchip? But he insisted, saying the listing picture wasn't scuffed, and tried to trick me into sending him another kit for him to return the first one on receipt of the replacement, which I didn't fall for. In the end I think he sent it back and I went through all the made-up kits to select one that looked in better nick, probably a plastic one which scuff less easily than the ceramic ones.

I had to complain about one fraudster who was selling 74LSxxx very cheaply in multiple batches. I bought a load, he marked them as dispatched, then said he was out of stock and cancelled my order. In the meantime he amended the listing to reduce the quantity per item and increase the price, and carried on selling them to other people. I returned my money to him and insisted he honoured the original deal, but he didn't, just refunded my money for the second time. Paypal/E-Bay weren't interested because I'd been refunded, they didn't grasp that the seller had sold items I had already bought to other people for more money, and was continuing to do so.
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Re: Retro upgrades, value for money, eBay & why bother?

Post by Cutter » Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:35 pm

cmorley wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:21 pm
dp11 wrote:
Tue Feb 12, 2019 7:15 pm
Debugging projects takes time and sometimes extra equipment that cost money.
Don't I know it. A3000 RAM :( I spent days getting to the bottom of that.
And that sort of effort doesn't go unnoticed. For me personally, it gives me confidence to buy from people on a forum I'd otherwise not know from Adam.

Personally, I was delighted that someone on this forum was creating brand new RAM upgrades for a decades old machine.

For those of us who don't have the time / expertise to create these upgrades ourselves, our only other option is venturing onto a certain well-known auction site, where even if you can find what you're after, it's "was pulled from a machine which worked fine when I last tried it 25 years ago, but no guarantees, sold as seen, spares or repair only, strictly no returns, blablabla" but then priced as if it's brand new with a 5 year manufacturer's no-quibbleTM warranty! :lol:

I've only bought items here from you and IanS (so far!), but in both cases, I was struck by (a) sensible price, (b) prompt dispatch, and (c) a build quality that to my eyes, is frankly professional level (and indeed better than stuff I've seen being sold expensively at retail).

So from me, it's =D> :D

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Re: Retro upgrades, value for money, eBay & why bother?

Post by cmorley » Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:29 am

Rather predictable retaliation from malicious buyer. :(
feedback.png
Last edited by cmorley on Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:40 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Retro upgrades, value for money, eBay & why bother?

Post by VectorEyes » Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:53 am

What the actual flip? He's bought all that stuff from you and now because of one problem he's changed all his feedback?

Is there anything we can do to help?

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Lardo Boffin
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Re: Retro upgrades, value for money, eBay & why bother?

Post by Lardo Boffin » Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:14 pm

Can you not get them struck off again and block the buyer? Surely if he has to justify the comments to eBay he will not be able to?
Last edited by Lardo Boffin on Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Atom, issue 5
BBC model B 32k issue 4, 16k sideways RAM, Watford 12 ROM board, Acorn 6502 coproc
BBC model B 32k issue 7, turboMMC, Opus Challenger 3 512k, Pi 3 coproc
USA Model B
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Re: Retro upgrades, value for money, eBay & why bother?

Post by paulv » Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:17 pm

Now that feedback doesn't appear to be truthful in and of itself.

I'm assuming that the reference to "attacking and listing on *." are referring to this thread. Up until you posted the screenshot, I had no idea who the buyer was from this thread. Nor do I interpret this thread as an attack on the buyer. For me, it's more of a "what do to with unreasonable feedback" and a "why do we bother thread". Both of these things are not an attack on a specific buyer.

Sorry you're having to deal with this mess :-(

Paul

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Re: Retro upgrades, value for money, eBay & why bother?

Post by danielj » Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:43 pm

The retro community runs on karma. I didn't see any identification of the individual in this thread and Chris's irritation was perfectly legitimate. If I were the leaver of that feedback I'd have a long hard think about what's reasonable and courteous behaviour.

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Re: Retro upgrades, value for money, eBay & why bother?

Post by cmorley » Sat Feb 23, 2019 12:54 pm

VectorEyes wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:53 am
He's bought all that stuff from you and now because of one problem he's changed all his feedback?
No he didn't buy all that. I cancelled his original orders for him so he could reorder for combined postage. Of course that costs me in non-refundable PP fees. He's left feedback on the cancelled items too.

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Re: Retro upgrades, value for money, eBay & why bother?

Post by danielj » Sat Feb 23, 2019 1:01 pm

Pretty low.

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Re: Retro upgrades, value for money, eBay & why bother?

Post by RobC » Sat Feb 23, 2019 1:02 pm

A number of years ago, I sold a Spectrum interface 2 cartridge on eBay. Before paying, the guy who bought it off me asked if I had any more and I said that I'd be listing two more over the coming weeks. He then said that he'd offer less than half what he'd bid for the first cartridge for the other two combined. If I didn't agree, he'd leave negative feedback.

I replied that I would be listing them on eBay as selling through eBay's messaging system wasn't allowed, using the threat of negative feedback as a means of extortion was not allowed under eBay rules and his offer was well below what I would accept.

In the end he didn't pay for the first cartridge but left negative feedback. At that time, I couldn't respond because the deal wasn't completed. When I complained to eBay that 1) he hadn't paid, 2) he'd tried to arrange a sale through eBay messages and 3) he'd threatened to use negative feedback to get something for less than its value, they said I should have worked it out with the buyer! I tried to point out that he wasn't strictly a buyer as he'd never paid me and I therefore hadn't sent the item but they wouldn't listen...

Thankfully, he was banned a few months later and so the negative feedback he left was removed :D

I hope this gets sorted for you Chris - dealing with eBay can be a real pain at times.

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Re: Retro upgrades, value for money, eBay & why bother?

Post by cmorley » Sat Feb 23, 2019 1:13 pm

@RobC - I don't know where you fall back to in that circumstance. Presumably they got banned because of complaints from other eBayers too but for an obvious breech of eBay's own policy you'd have thought they would step in there.

I read everyone elses problems too & have great sympathy for you all. It is sad that so many of us have had problems with buyers/sellers which were difficult to resolve.

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Re: Retro upgrades, value for money, eBay & why bother?

Post by Lardo Boffin » Sat Feb 23, 2019 1:19 pm

It doesn’t have such a large customer base but there is always sell my retro dot com. Seems like a smaller but nicer community.
Atom, issue 5
BBC model B 32k issue 4, 16k sideways RAM, Watford 12 ROM board, Acorn 6502 coproc
BBC model B 32k issue 7, turboMMC, Opus Challenger 3 512k, Pi 3 coproc
USA Model B
BBC Master, Datacentre + HDD, pi co-proc, econet, NULA

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Re: Retro upgrades, value for money, eBay & why bother?

Post by cmorley » Sat Feb 23, 2019 1:25 pm

I stumbled upon https://www.sellmyretro.com/ in a Google search. Have you used it?

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Re: Retro upgrades, value for money, eBay & why bother?

Post by Lardo Boffin » Sat Feb 23, 2019 1:27 pm

Lots of times - at least 40 judging by my feedback. I buy a lot of my Sinclair refurbishment stuff on there - membranes, ZX8-CCBs, chips, ZXpands etc.
Last edited by Lardo Boffin on Sat Feb 23, 2019 1:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Atom, issue 5
BBC model B 32k issue 4, 16k sideways RAM, Watford 12 ROM board, Acorn 6502 coproc
BBC model B 32k issue 7, turboMMC, Opus Challenger 3 512k, Pi 3 coproc
USA Model B
BBC Master, Datacentre + HDD, pi co-proc, econet, NULA

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Re: Retro upgrades, value for money, eBay & why bother?

Post by 1024MAK » Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:03 pm

Sell My Retro is one of Rich Mellor‘s businesses. For more on him and his other businesses see http://www.rwapsoftware.co.uk/history.html.

He is a member here on this forum (under the name rwap) and on various other computer forums (including The QL Forum). He set up Sinclair ZX World forums.

I’ve bought over 60 items on Sell My Retro. It’s a bit like eBay in that both private sellers and companies trade with other members.

There are plenty of other enthusiasts selling small production runs of boards, kits etc.

I definitely recommend using Sell My Retro :D

Please note that I have no involvement in Sell My Retro other than being a member / customer.

Mark

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Re: Retro upgrades, value for money, eBay & why bother?

Post by 1024MAK » Sat Feb 23, 2019 2:18 pm

cmorley wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 11:29 am
Rather predictable retaliation from malicious buyer. :(
I think you already know this, but yes, you should definitely pursue this with eBay.
That feedback is completely unreasonable.

Mark

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Re: Retro upgrades, value for money, eBay & why bother?

Post by Coeus » Sat Feb 23, 2019 4:28 pm

BeebMaster wrote:
Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:02 pm
I had to complain about one fraudster who was selling 74LSxxx very cheaply in multiple batches. I bought a load, he marked them as dispatched, then said he was out of stock and cancelled my order. In the meantime he amended the listing to reduce the quantity per item and increase the price, and carried on selling them to other people. I returned my money to him and insisted he honoured the original deal, but he didn't, just refunded my money for the second time. Paypal/E-Bay weren't interested because I'd been refunded, they didn't grasp that the seller had sold items I had already bought to other people for more money, and was continuing to do so.
Unfortunately, this seems to be reinforced by very weak UK contract law, i.e. if a supplier fails to fulfil a contract it is ordinarily sufficient to restore the buyer to the same financial position as if the contract had never been entered into, i.e. a refund.

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Re: Retro upgrades, value for money, eBay & why bother?

Post by Coeus » Sat Feb 23, 2019 4:59 pm

Very sad that someone has shown himself to be so mean spirited.
cmorley wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 1:13 pm
@RobC - I don't know where you fall back to in that circumstance. Presumably they got banned because of complaints from other eBayers too but for an obvious breech of eBay's own policy you'd have thought they would step in there.
Presumably it is not that some eBayers voices are louder than other, more than the too little investigative effort eBay are prepared to invest will be targeted at apparent hot spots, i.e. sellers with negative feedback from multiple buyers or buyers with negative feedback from multiple sellers.

None of that is to suggest challenging this as unfair would be the wrong thing to do.

I did check to see if I had left suitable positive feedback but, when I bought some RAM modules, I think it must have been direct. Obviously that means I know your products are high quality and the service received excellent but I think, even if I was a new buyer, I would not be put off by your feedback %age or by viewing the feedback page. I am sure the only way to keep a 100% positive feedback rating is to have had too few sales to have encounter the inevitable unreasonable buyer.

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Re: Retro upgrades, value for money, eBay & why bother?

Post by RobC » Sun Feb 24, 2019 4:21 pm

cmorley wrote:
Sat Feb 23, 2019 1:13 pm
@RobC - I don't know where you fall back to in that circumstance. Presumably they got banned because of complaints from other eBayers too...
I assume so - I was just relieved that I got my 100% positive feedback restored.

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Re: Retro upgrades, value for money, eBay & why bother?

Post by cmorley » Mon Feb 25, 2019 7:56 am

RobC wrote:
Sun Feb 24, 2019 4:21 pm
I was just relieved that I got my 100% positive feedback restored.
Mine hasn't been. eBay have removed the feedback similar to the original but left the feedback which is worded differently. eBay also left the feedback on the cancelled items because I pushed the cancel request - so the buyer could reorder with combined postage. Ace.

No escalation & no appeals apparently.

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Re: Retro upgrades, value for money, eBay & why bother?

Post by 1024MAK » Mon Feb 25, 2019 8:04 am

Chris, would it be a good idea to end any active listings for items that still have negative feedback. Then put up a new listing for these items. Then at least the “item(s)” that have negative feedback are no longer shown as still being available for sale.

Why, because active listings can be clicked through via links from the feedback page.

Mark

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Re: Retro upgrades, value for money, eBay & why bother?

Post by RobC » Mon Feb 25, 2019 5:41 pm

cmorley wrote:
Mon Feb 25, 2019 7:56 am
Mine hasn't been. eBay have removed the feedback similar to the original but left the feedback which is worded differently. eBay also left the feedback on the cancelled items because I pushed the cancel request - so the buyer could reorder with combined postage. Ace.

No escalation & no appeals apparently.
That's really unfair and I know how you must feel. I hope that this gets sorted.

In the meantime, I've just bought a couple of your modules as I've been meaning to do so for ages. I'll make sure my feedback implores other buyers to ignore the stupid negative comments.

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Re: Retro upgrades, value for money, eBay & why bother?

Post by cmorley » Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:57 am

So I contacted eBay to ask them how sellers should offer combined postage discount when the buyer checks out separately - to avoid the possibility of negative feedback being left on cancelled items.

They replied (paraphrased):
Don't cancel items. Refund the difference on PP and contact eBay customer services with the PP transaction ID and eBay will adjust the seller fees.

Useful to know but I'm not sure where this leaves you with a fradulent item not arrived claim. Anyway I didn't know you could contact eBay for a fees adjustment so thought that might be useful knowledge to others.

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Re: Retro upgrades, value for money, eBay & why bother?

Post by richardtoohey » Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:55 am

What a pain. Seemed like things were on the up and now back down again. Frustrating but ... nowt like folk. ](*,)

Good luck.

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Re: Retro upgrades, value for money, eBay & why bother?

Post by DaveBurke » Tue Mar 12, 2019 5:03 pm

What a complete tool.

Don't give up Chris, your stuff is awesome and really good value.

Plus, being on here and offering loads of help is just awesome.

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Re: Retro upgrades, value for money, eBay & why bother?

Post by Ramtop » Fri Mar 22, 2019 9:16 pm

I have great sympathy with you on this one, Chris. EBay are an incredible pain to deal with.

I've been fortunate to not (yet!) have too many problems with the retro stuff I sell, other then the odd idiot who won't read the instructions and returns a perfectly working device. But I've had infuriating run-ins with Ebay in the past when selling used PC parts.

One one memorable occasion I sold a faulty graphics card, which was listed as 'for parts' and clearly indicated as not working four separate times in the listing, only to have the buyer ask for a return because 'card not work'. When I wouldn't accept the card back he opened a case with Ebay, and going by the timestamps on the emails it took them all of two minutes to decide in his favour.

It's a real shame that no other sites seem to have gained enough prominence to challenge EBay. For sellers it is a wretched place to do business.
Gary

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Re: Retro upgrades, value for money, eBay & why bother?

Post by Lardo Boffin » Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:02 pm

I tried to buy a couple of these in eBay earlier (I know I can get them slightly cheaper direct but a few more positives for them are worth it) but couldn't find an ‘ask seller for total’ button to avoid multiple p&p.
I tried first with the mobile app and then with the browser on my iPhone but still could not find it! I had added the EEPROM and sideways RAM to the basket. Any suggestions?
Ebay can be a pain as a buyer.
Atom, issue 5
BBC model B 32k issue 4, 16k sideways RAM, Watford 12 ROM board, Acorn 6502 coproc
BBC model B 32k issue 7, turboMMC, Opus Challenger 3 512k, Pi 3 coproc
USA Model B
BBC Master, Datacentre + HDD, pi co-proc, econet, NULA

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Re: Retro upgrades, value for money, eBay & why bother?

Post by 1024MAK » Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:33 pm

Lardo Boffin wrote:
Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:02 pm
I tried to buy a couple of these in eBay earlier (I know I can get them slightly cheaper direct but a few more positives for them are worth it) but couldn't find an ‘ask seller for total’ button to avoid multiple p&p.
I tried first with the mobile app and then with the browser on my iPhone but still could not find it! I had added the EEPROM and sideways RAM to the basket. Any suggestions?
Ebay can be a pain as a buyer.
You have to use the full ‘PC’ website version (not the app, or the mobile version) where you will find at the top line the sellers eBay ID, then “Pay only this seller” and then “Request total”. Click on this last option :wink:

Mark

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