Modern mice

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pau1ie
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Modern mice

Post by pau1ie » Mon Jun 04, 2018 10:31 pm

I don't seem to have a lot of luck with modern mice. Whatever I buy I find that after a few months the mouse buttons either don't click, or double click when I click them once, and release when I don't tell them to.

Has anyone else had similar issues? Is there any cure? Are there any mice that don't suffer this problem?
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Re: Modern mice

Post by tricky » Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:17 pm

I prefer Microsoft mice and have only broken on since the 90s. I replaced the micro-switch and it's good as new.

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Re: Modern mice

Post by Elminster » Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:30 pm

I use magic mice, just switch to a Magic Mouse 2, after nearly 10 years on the lrinigal (which sill works). They are Bluetooth but not tried on a non Mac. Not cheap though.

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Re: Modern mice

Post by 1024MAK » Mon Jun 04, 2018 11:44 pm

I'm currently using a WYSE PS/2 scroll wheel mouse, model MO42KOP (search ebay).
Been dropped countless times over a year or so, and still working fine :wink:

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Re: Modern mice

Post by dgrubb » Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:34 pm

What on Earth are you doing to them? I don't think I've ever seen a mouse outright break, even the grotty cheap ones.

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Re: Modern mice

Post by VincentVega » Fri Jun 08, 2018 5:29 pm

I use a Logitech gaming mouse - G402 - as my main mouse, despite not being much of a gamer. Unfortunately it has a blue LED, but other than that, I like it a lot. It's proved very reliable thus far. I use it with Steermouse on my iMac, as I've always found Apple's "normal" mouse tracking a bit weird after so many years of Windows.

For years and years, I used to buy Microsoft mice religiously. The G402 is the first Logitech mouse I've had since I got my RISC PC back in 1996. The MS mouse I bought for work has a dodgy left button, so at some stage that will probably need to be replaced. I can't use Apple mice as they give me terrible pains in my hand - they're too flat for me. I can't be bothered with battery-powered mice either.

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Re: Modern mice

Post by pau1ie » Mon Jun 11, 2018 1:45 pm

dgrubb wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:34 pm
What on Earth are you doing to them? I don't think I've ever seen a mouse outright break, even the grotty cheap ones.
Just using them. They don't break, it is just things like click and drag where the button releases even though I am holding it firmly, and when I single click it double clicks for me.

The old dell mice at work seem OK, but I have some logitech ones at home which do this, and a new dell one. The trackpad on my laptop is OK. I am confused as to how it happens.
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Re: Modern mice

Post by Commie_User » Mon Jun 11, 2018 5:16 pm

It's just stuff getting cheaper, in all ways. Every half-year, blow a tenner on Ebay and enjoy some fresh sweeties and have done with it.

Why not see a broken mouse as the small cost for versatility? Bank up and use 'em for all kinds of whatever. I Blu-Tak'ed one of mine to the MIDI guitar because it has no pitchbend and I want one. A PC program takes care of whatever in session.
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Re: Modern mice

Post by 1024MAK » Tue Jun 12, 2018 9:42 am

pau1ie wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 1:45 pm
dgrubb wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:34 pm
What on Earth are you doing to them? I don't think I've ever seen a mouse outright break, even the grotty cheap ones.
Just using them. They don't break, it is just things like click and drag where the button releases even though I am holding it firmly, and when I single click it double clicks for me.

The old dell mice at work seem OK, but I have some logitech ones at home which do this, and a new dell one. The trackpad on my laptop is OK. I am confused as to how it happens.
This failure mode is common when either the button (switch) contacts become dirty or worn or the solder connections on the PCB for the switch become broken or dry jointed. If the mouse is a wired type, an internal intermediate break in one of the wires can also cause random problems.

As most 'low cost' mice are now often produced to a price range rather than being built to a good quality, so cheaper and less durable components are being used.

In some cases, it may be possible to replace a failed button switch.

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Re: Modern mice

Post by Prime » Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:22 pm

dgrubb wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:34 pm
What on Earth are you doing to them? I don't think I've ever seen a mouse outright break, even the grotty cheap ones.
In my previous job at a local technical college, we used to have a fairly high attrition rate on mice, as they where cheap so we bought them 30 odd at a time. I used to collect all the 'broken' ones in a box and about every six months go through the box cleaning and fixing them, often as we only used them as 2 button mice, you could fix them by sapping the button switches around. Gave me an excuse to get my soldering iron out too :)

But mostly these days I use the Microsoft intellimice I have a whole drawer of them that I saved from scrapping when the machines they where on where scrapped / recycled.....hopefully I'll never need to buy another mouse again, plus I like them as they are about the right size for my hand, I find some of the more modern mice are too small, and I get RSI trying to use them.

Now don't get me started on track pads......which wouldn't be so bad if they where **JUST** track pads, instrad of having all sorts of 'additional actions' such as tapping to press the buttons, that I always have to turn off to stop me activating them by default.....atendees that the recent ABUG may have heard me ranting about that :) It's also the reason I generally take a mouse with my laptop......

Cheers.

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Re: Modern mice

Post by Kazzie » Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:21 pm

Prime wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:22 pm
Now don't get me started on track pads......which wouldn't be so bad if they where **JUST** track pads, instrad of having all sorts of 'additional actions' such as tapping to press the buttons, that I always have to turn off to stop me activating them by default.....atendees that the recent ABUG may have heard me ranting about that :) It's also the reason I generally take a mouse with my laptop......
I'm a trackpoint man myself. They've fallen out of fashion in the past decade or so, but thankfully Lenovo still include them on all their Thinkpads (and then the accompanying touchpad gets disabled in BIOS).
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Re: Modern mice

Post by 1024MAK » Thu Jun 14, 2018 1:23 pm

Kazzie wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:21 pm
Prime wrote:
Tue Jun 12, 2018 12:22 pm
Now don't get me started on track pads......which wouldn't be so bad if they where **JUST** track pads, instrad of having all sorts of 'additional actions' such as tapping to press the buttons, that I always have to turn off to stop me activating them by default.....atendees that the recent ABUG may have heard me ranting about that :) It's also the reason I generally take a mouse with my laptop......
I'm a trackpoint man myself. They've fallen out of fashion in the past decade or so, but thankfully Lenovo still include them on all their Thinkpads (and then the accompanying touchpad gets disabled in BIOS).
I can handle track pads, but as Phill says, the finger gestures "features" (two fingers to scroll for example) are annoying especially when you are not used to them.

With the pointing stick, I never could master fine control when using one. Great to get across a widescreen quickly. Not so great when trying to accurately point the mouse pointer at a small target :twisted:

Now if I tried to use a pointing stick, I would be useless, as none of the laptops I use regularly have them any more.

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Re: Modern mice

Post by guesser » Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:03 pm

pau1ie wrote:
Mon Jun 11, 2018 1:45 pm
Just using them. They don't break, it is just things like click and drag where the button releases even though I am holding it firmly, and when I single click it double clicks for me.
My mouse has that exact issue intermittently at the moment. I suspect the old mouse in my junk box has no microswitches left at this point, so I should probably add a pack to my upcoming farnell order! :)

(I took it apart a few months ago and squirted a bit of IPA into the switch which did clean the contact but it is obviously on its way out, it comes and goes)
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Re: Modern mice

Post by pau1ie » Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:23 am

Looking at the mouse I see it could do with retrobrighte-ing, so maybe it isn't as modern as I suggested. Still it is USB, so doesn't count as retro yet!

I took the mouse apart and inspected the switches. Measuring resistance with a multimeter shows the LMB switch is going. Also it feels different to the others. I took it apart and looked at it, and it looks OK, though presumably is slightly out of shape since it feels wrong. The cable seems OK though, which is good.
guesser wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 7:03 pm
I should probably add a pack to my upcoming farnell order!
Which switches do you get? I found a guide here, which seems to suggest Omron D2F01, but a search on RS only seemed to return the ones with extra gubbins. Also they were more expensive than I expected (£5 for a pack), but I suppose I would prefer to pay that than £10 for a mouse that will break quickly again.
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Re: Modern mice

Post by Elminster » Fri Jun 15, 2018 11:10 am

USB devices started appearing in the 90s so it could be Retro if you use the older than 10years rule. Which would make my keyboard Retro as it is 11 years old.

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Re: Modern mice

Post by guesser » Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:18 pm

pau1ie wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 10:23 am
Which switches do you get? I found a guide here, which seems to suggest Omron D2F01, but a search on RS only seemed to return the ones with extra gubbins. Also they were more expensive than I expected (£5 for a pack), but I suppose I would prefer to pay that than £10 for a mouse that will break quickly again.
I've never bought new switches before as I've always got by cannibalising old ball mice until now :lol:

I'm sure you could get cheap "omlon" switches or something from the usual suspects, but I'll just splash out and buy a handful of the proper ones off farnell. The choice seems to be this http://uk.farnell.com/omron-electronic- ... mron%20D2F

I'm not a crazy gamer so I don't much care if they exactly match what's already there, I just replace with whatever physically fits (or even what doesn't quite. The middle click on this mouse has a small tactile switch so I just used a big chunky one I had so the mouse wheel now goes CLICK when I use it :lol:)
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Re: Modern mice

Post by Coeus » Sat Jun 16, 2018 5:56 pm

Kazzie wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:21 pm
I'm a trackpoint man myself. They've fallen out of fashion in the past decade or so, but thankfully Lenovo still include them on all their Thinkpads (and then the accompanying touchpad gets disabled in BIOS).
I have a Thinkpad for work and the trackpoint plays up. With it enabled as a poimnting device, sometimes the pointer will drift across the screen without me touching it and even if using an external keyboard so I can't even be touching it by accident. Sometimes the movement is slow, sometimes fast and sometimes even somewhat random.

My solution so far as been to disable it for my user profile but I'd ideally like to disable it completely as, sometimes, when I am at the login screen, the pointer flies off onto the other screen and causes the password box to loose input focus.

On the subject of buttons I've had exactly the same issues - buttons that either start to work intermittently or don't seem to stay held down, at least as far as the PC is concerned, even when I know I'm holding it down and the click when released has not happened. So far the failures have been Logitech trackballs. I've got a Kensington Orbit Scroll now so we'll see how long that lasts.

Someone raised battery powered mice and I'm not impressed that some of these come with a receiver that has been built into a USB plug but doesn't quite fit, so the plug is a little fatter than the standard and opens up the socket it is put into very slightly so afterwards any standard plug in loose.

And me too for the multi-function trackpad. In fact, I find the PC guessing what I want to do just anoying generally whether its gestures I didn't know existed on the trackpad, being unable to select text with single character precision in certain applications, to the window manager assuming that if I move a window to the edge of the screen that I must want to maximise it.

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Re: Modern mice

Post by Kazzie » Mon Jun 18, 2018 8:08 am

Coeus wrote:
Sat Jun 16, 2018 5:56 pm
Kazzie wrote:
Thu Jun 14, 2018 12:21 pm
I'm a trackpoint man myself. They've fallen out of fashion in the past decade or so, but thankfully Lenovo still include them on all their Thinkpads (and then the accompanying touchpad gets disabled in BIOS).
I have a Thinkpad for work and the trackpoint plays up. With it enabled as a poimnting device, sometimes the pointer will drift across the screen without me touching it and even if using an external keyboard so I can't even be touching it by accident. Sometimes the movement is slow, sometimes fast and sometimes even somewhat random.

My solution so far as been to disable it for my user profile but I'd ideally like to disable it completely as, sometimes, when I am at the login screen, the pointer flies off onto the other screen and causes the password box to loose input focus.
In my (~two decade) experience with trackpoints, they do sometimes drift the cursor across the screen: this seems to be when they temporarily mis-calculate the zero-point on its axes. Rather than fighting the drift with your finger, the best thing to do is lift your finger clear for a second or two, as the trackpoint's firmware is always recalculating its zero point when left idle, and without any vibration from your finger it should quickly zero-in again and stop drifting.

Sadly this doesn't sound like it matches the fault you describe. How old is your Thinkpad? If it's new enough to have a touchpad as well, it should be possible to permanently disable the one or the other in the laptop's BIOS. Alternatively, if it's older, you could buy a second-hand keyboard for £10-20 and replace either the whole keyboard or just the screw-on trackpoint component.
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Re: Modern mice

Post by pau1ie » Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:23 pm

guesser wrote:
Fri Jun 15, 2018 2:18 pm
I'm sure you could get cheap "omlon" switches or something from the usual suspects, but I'll just splash out and buy a handful of the proper ones off farnell. The choice seems to be this http://uk.farnell.com/omron-electronic- ... mron%20D2F
Thanks. I ordered some of those, and some of the D2F 01 ones. I am surprised they are so expensive (£1 a shot for the D2F 01). Hopefully they will last though, assuming I don't destroy them while putting them in!

I notice another mouse - another logitech bought recently (18 months ago) with a computer is playing up. It left clicks when you right click. Weird. It is on the kids computer though, so I will wait till they complain.
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Re: Modern mice

Post by Coeus » Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:08 pm

pau1ie wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 2:23 pm
I notice another mouse - another logitech bought recently (18 months ago) with a computer is playing up. It left clicks when you right click. Weird. It is on the kids computer though, so I will wait till they complain.
Have they been into the mouse settings and swapped the buttons?

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Re: Modern mice

Post by pau1ie » Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:16 pm

Coeus wrote:
Mon Jun 18, 2018 5:08 pm
Have they been into the mouse settings and swapped the buttons?
Nope!

OK, ordered buttons from Farnell, replaced the buttons and it works! Hooray!
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