Auntie Wants Me To Sign In

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*TAPE
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Re: Auntie Wants Me To Sign In

Post by *TAPE »

@Coeus
I understand the 'young uns'. It's a good argument.
As I wrote previously, this is an impending apocalypse, one that we, The UK, must solve.
It wasn't so much of a thing when the current flavour of party took power in 2010, but its grown in scale in the last 10 years, and now resembles an elephant.

I work in the sector, and I don't know what the answer is. Either Im not clever enough, or I can not imagine a suitable framework in which to continue to gather money to fund The BBC.


Coeus wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 1:42 am
...and then find that I am paying for stuff I don't like and not getting to watch other things that interest me because they're on a channel I didn't subscribe to.
Which also happens with subscription providers.
Do I subscribe to Apple TV, Netflix, Amazon or Sky?
Subscribe to one and you're financing all the other stuff you have no interest in, and you can't watch the content thats on the other one.


Two things you will just NOT find on any SVoD platform are news and weather.
Netflix local news anyone?
Apple weather?

SVoDs have no interest in this what so ever, because it costs too much money. Its out of date the moment you put it out, and therefore financially unviable. Yet no-one ever critiques FAANG for this lack of service.



OU broadcasts got squeezed out. They were uncool. The corporation had more content to show on Sunday morning. The OU became an actual place. And now it can be done online.

I think there may have been a shift in policy (from Whitehall) regarding transmission of educational content for schools. ITV also used to do a lot. Now they do none. But no-one scrutinises what ITV do.

Thing to remember is, The BBC is a state broadcaster. Its the broadcaster for our, utterly bonkers, state. All of the other dictatorships have one!

Also what few understand, is The BBC has to apply for the charter renewal every few years.
It has to renew the contract to be the state broadcaster.
If The BBC lost the charter, someone else would get it
There will always be a state broadcaster.
If it wasn't The BBC, it would be someone else.

The matter of there being a state broadcaster is just one of those things in the bedrock of what we do in the UK.
Like driving on the left. No-one else in the northern hemisphere does it! So why do we continue. Sweden switched from the left to the right, so we don't we?
Because we're British, its what we do.


Coeus wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 1:42 am
Do the government interfere with the BBC more than they should?
Successive governments do. Just so they can look like they're doing something about it.
Matt Hancock being the one who meddled with it most in recent years and made the biggest threats against the existence of The BBC.


Coeus wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 1:42 am
How lomg have they had this contract?
Capita, I believe, got the contract in the early 2000s.
That they write to you even though you have notified them, its just guff so they can include in their report to Whitehall that "We have served notice on x.xx million people."
It is absolutely not a lie.
They have served notice, but they've ignored what they already have on record to do so.
And that presents an image to Whitehall that everyone is at it, and that Capita is doing such a good job in chasing all of these criminals.
....its a Jedi mind trick on the weak minded..... Whitehall!
Capita, doing such a good job for the money, get the contract renewed.


But as I wrote previously, no-one else notices the Capita bit.
They just know the licence fee is for The BBC, and therefore its The BBC that are sending me these letters demanding money. Once again, The BBC receives what Tracey Pritchard (W1A) would call "heavy incoming".


BigEd wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 7:19 am
Or should I say, yes, exactly.
In a case of life immittating art immittating life, BBC Local radio ran a series in 2018, called BBC Me !!


BigEd wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 7:19 am
None of which really explains the BBC making it harder not to sign up.
That very instruction came from Whitehall.
I can't remember when but there was a big debate/fuss (in the House of Commons) about geo-blocking iPlayer.
It was known that a lot of iPlayer traffic was coming from outside the UK.... and therefore costing money.
The question of whether we block out Jonny Foreigner or not went all the way to the top.
Yes, came back the reply, eventually. And whilst you're at it drive people to sign up.
.....which is why The BBC Sport app now requests you sign in.... every time you open it.

The BBC, just like every other web service you sign up to, do also make use of the information they have about you, and use that to tailor the content they show you.
BUT, unlike others, they do not share this information with any other parties at all. They also went to great efforts to ensure the "you might also like" links did not, like youtube, become an echo chamber.
i.e. If you like watching wildebeests getting mauled, making sure you don't get an endless list of more and more grotesque videos of hardcore carnivorous action!
Right wing activists will not be presented with more links of right wing activism..... because The BBC has to present a balanced view of the world.... because UK journalism must be impartial.... because Parliament dictates so.


There's also live sport content on the web platform, which you might be watching outside of the UK.
So if you sign up, and authenticate yourself, you're in.

Of course, the next step would be to require you to enter your licence number before you're permitted to view any online BBC content. But thats going a bit too far.

Once again, these changes, instructed by Whitehall, make things a little more challenging, but all Joe Public sees is "its The BBC, AGAIN". Again, The BBC gets the negative press.

Essentially, it's just ring fencing their content, just like an SVoD.
BigEd wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 7:19 am
the threat of interference, in the form of a change to the license fee.
As I wrote previously, how do we fund the state broadcaster?
It can't do all of this stuff for nothing, we need to pay for it somehow.
And thats the problem that faces this, and successive governments.




BeebMaster wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 9:47 am
Hey, we're still way off topic! Why do I get that sign-in screen occasionally, just by clicking a news page link?
And look at what you started!!

Having said everything above, I don't sign in to the BBC News website, but I don't get any pop-ups like that.... except after Ive cleared cookies.
Do you have Firefox set to clear cookies after a short period?
Do you have CCleaner installed with all the automatic periodic clean up?
Where does your IP trace back to?
Is that in a private browser?
Did you land on that page from a link on an aggregator site?

Just click "Maybe later".



10:24 04/05/2021
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Re: Auntie Wants Me To Sign In

Post by *TAPE »

BTW, Im a little late to the party with this, but....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nirr5CvseNI
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Re: Auntie Wants Me To Sign In

Post by 1024MAK »

*TAPE wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 11:13 am
BTW, Im a little late to the party with this, but....
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nirr5CvseNI
There’s yet another version here



Ian, I can split the TV licensing posts into a separate topic if you want me to.

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Re: Auntie Wants Me To Sign In

Post by BigEd »

BeebMaster wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 9:47 am
Hey, we're still way off topic! Why do I get that sign-in screen occasionally, just by clicking a news page link?
It'll be cookies...
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Re: Auntie Wants Me To Sign In

Post by Rich Talbot-Watkins »

In Spain, the state-owned public broadcaster is funded entirely by government subsidies - there are no adverts, and there's no licence fee. This model works fine, and nobody complains about it. There are 5 channels - two are like BBC 1 and 2, and then there are channels for news, children's programmes and sports. I think it's good that the BBC exists, but the last time I was in the UK (a good 8 years ago now), it was a shadow of its former self. That's probably not especially a criticism of the BBC in particular though; I think TV in general has deteriorated over the years.
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Re: Auntie Wants Me To Sign In

Post by Coeus »

Rich Talbot-Watkins wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 12:28 pm
In Spain, the state-owned public broadcaster is funded entirely by government subsidies - there are no adverts, and there's no licence fee. This model works fine, and nobody complains about it. There are 5 channels - two are like BBC 1 and 2, and then there are channels for news, children's programmes and sports. I think it's good that the BBC exists, but the last time I was in the UK (a good 8 years ago now), it was a shadow of its former self. That's probably not especially a criticism of the BBC in particular though; I think TV in general has deteriorated over the years.
Yes, general taxation is the obvious alternative to the license fee but I think people fear that this would increase the level of political interference. How does Spain cope with that?

On the general deteriation of TV, there was a time when, IMHO, the UK had a limited choice of four channels of high quality TV and the Americans had a much wider choice of drivel. As the number of programmes on offer increases the quality must go down. Talent and money are spread more thinly.
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Re: Auntie Wants Me To Sign In

Post by BigEd »

It's not quite true that I remember when the UK had just two channels... but I do remember the idea that there was a new channel and people were putting up new aerials. I think the new BBC2 (the third channel) was only available on 625 lines UHF service.

Hmm, having said that, there must have been a ramp-up because surely I don't have memories from 1964. 1966 certainly.
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Re: Auntie Wants Me To Sign In

Post by *TAPE »

@ Rich Talbot-Watkin

Does the Spanish state broadcaster criticise the government as fiercely as ours does?

Does it ask awkward questions about the Catalonian break away?
...or does it support the government in condemning it?
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Re: Auntie Wants Me To Sign In

Post by Rich Talbot-Watkins »

Without wishing to get too political here, my perception is that the state channels are reasonably impartial and balanced, yes, though I have no idea what kind of mechanisms there are in place to keep them in check. They're undoubtedly perceived as more "establishment" than the independent channels (of which there are four main ones), but they give airtime to all factions of the political spectrum. I haven't seen UK TV for a while, but I'm surprised to hear that they criticise the government. I was under the impression they had a bit of a cosy consensus going on!
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Re: Auntie Wants Me To Sign In

Post by BeebMaster »

I think what we've learnt here more than anything is that, like the NHS and the weather, everyone has an opinion on the BBC, and few people are indifferent towards it! I suppose that's a good thing. I won't get drawn into whether the BBC is a mouthpiece for the Government of the day, or even the opposition of the day, because I know we will never agree on that, but I do think one of the most interesting things is where the BBC fits within the role of "state broadcaster". Very often (on the BBC!!) you see news reports from overseas where they say "the state broadcaster announced... etc etc."

In most countries it seems like there is a broadcaster, probably state-owned, which is expected to transmit to the bidding of the regime of the day, which we don't have in this country. The BBC is the national broadcaster, but certainly isn't a "state broadcaster", and I think I'm glad about it.

Anyway...cookies and the like. I use Firefox on Linux, I think I have private browsing, dunno how I can tell, but I do know that I have it clearing all the cache on every re-start. So that's probably something to do with it. Thus far I've only seen the sign-in message showing up when I've clicked a BBC website link from already being on the BBC website, and so far F5 always takes me to the page.
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Re: Auntie Wants Me To Sign In

Post by *TAPE »

BeebMaster wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 4:53 pm
I think I have private browsing
That'll be the badger! Firefox Private browser is a very tightly controlled sandbox. It clears all cookies when you close it.
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Re: Auntie Wants Me To Sign In

Post by 1024MAK »

*TAPE wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 6:32 pm
BeebMaster wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 4:53 pm
I think I have private browsing
That'll be the badger! Firefox Private browser is a very tightly controlled sandbox. It clears all cookies when you close it.
And that leaves no biscuit crumbs for even our dogs with their super sensitive noses to find...

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Re: Auntie Wants Me To Sign In

Post by nismo »

The pop-up registration window on Auntie's website is the BBC struggling to turn subscriber numbers into advertising revenues to make up the ever-increasing shortfall in its budget. Annoying, and a very worrying trend.

In fact, this is what I was greeted with today:

BBC-News-Banner.png

"America's most trusted news source"...? Hmmm... This is the kind of sensationalism that is either appealing to future advertisers, appeasing current advertisers, or both.

It's a worrying trend because advertising revenues give advertisers leverage; leverage over how content is put out, and what political or cultural slant the content promotes. Advertisers and financial backers "directing" the opinions of print media is an age-old problem. However, as the proportion of people who watch content is far larger than those reading it, leverage over broadcast media through advertising or sponsorship revenues is a far more lucrative and politically divisive beast.

To me, this is one of the fundamental reasons why the license fee was established. Removing reliance on advertising or sponsorship revenues in broadcast programming enables the BBC to avoid being leveraged by external financial influences who could distort both how the UK is represented to UK citizens and what is being reported. The license fee (ideally) ensures programmes remain impartial and reflect the UK as the UK as opposed to reflecting some other country's version of the UK.

BeebMaster wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 4:53 pm
The BBC is the national broadcaster, but certainly isn't a "state broadcaster", and I think I'm glad about it.
This is the crux, but there's only a very thin line separating these two notions. The BBC, as the national broadcaster striving to be impartial, also has to make sure that the values of its stakeholders, UK citizens, are not neglected. This also places it in the "state broadcaster" category.

I see the license fee as the mechanism by which everybody plays their part in ensuring the UK remains just that; the UK. The fee grants the BBC independence to guarantee that UK language, life, and culture are accurately reflected in its programming in the way UK citizens want. I hope that people who consider they would be better off without the license fee really do consider what would replace it. Without a license fee, UK television will simply become a linguistic and cultural mirror of whatever country/corporation/individual is dictating programme content through its funding. And with the UK clearly being in no position to compete with the gargantuan flows of capital from overseas when it comes to funding broadcast media, it is likely that Pound Sterling won't be funding those programmes so UK television will ultimately not reflect the UK. Netflix and the furore with "The Crown" is proof of where it could all lead and that's just the tip of the iceberg.

And this is where I feel that the BBC needs to be both a "state broadcaster" and a national broadcaster. Foreign corporations don't care about reflecting UK culture the way UK citizens want. The only people who can ensure the UK remains the UK are UK citizens. Financial corporations exist for profit and will always place fiscal expediency and the political views of shareholders ahead of moral judgement when it comes to programme content. The BBC is essential in ensuring that UK standards of quality and decency are upheld in programming, and that what matters to UK citizens is reflected in their programming, so ensuring the UK remains as the UK. The license fee should be seen as an essential part of that.
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Re: Auntie Wants Me To Sign In

Post by nismo »

*TAPE wrote:
Tue May 04, 2021 6:32 pm
Firefox Private browser is a very tightly controlled sandbox. It clears all cookies when you close it.
For real "disposable browsing" in Firefox I use the Profiles feature. Just start Firefox on the command line with the -P argument and some random ID, then when you're finished just remove these directories (on linux):

Code: Select all

~/.mozilla/firefox/<profile>
~/.cache/mozilla/firefox/<profile>
and voila! All gone. Everything. I have various profiles I use for different browsing tasks to make sure that my histories don't "pollute" each other and aren't discoverable by each other. Private browsing windows may isolate cookies but the windows themselves reference your non-private history so I've never really trusted them.
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Re: Auntie Wants Me To Sign In

Post by Elminster »

daveejhitchins wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 7:04 am
I look at the BBC Licence and signing-in in a different way:

One of my sons doesn't like paying for the BBC licence so doesn't pay for it or watch it (or any off-air services) - fair enough. I do pay the BBC licence fee and use their services, which are extensive! I also pay for and watch Netflix and understand I have to sign-in for their services. So, I see no difference between watching the BBC and Netflix e.g. they are both paid-for services - neither payments are compulsory (!!!) - and you need to sign-in for both services. I don't see any problems!

Would you really expect to be able to watch a paid-for service without signing-in?

Dave H.
I nearly missed this exciting thread as I thought it was about Beebmasters Auntie.

I agree with Dave, I don't really notice. I sign in for Netflix, appltv, disney+, Amazon prime, Plex, what is another sign in. (I have skyq but I don't think I sign in to that). I am resisting Discovery+ at the moment. Especially as I never actually watch the TV, the family steal the tV time. I just watch youtube content on my iPad. Which I sign in for .... TV license is on Direct Debit, I never actually ever remember I pay for it. Probably pay for lots of things I never actual use.

As to why Beebmaster is forever getting popups, I can say I have noticed, get lots of popups about excepting cookies but everyone does that.
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Re: Auntie Wants Me To Sign In

Post by *TAPE »

nismo wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 9:17 am
BBC-News-Banner.png

"America's most trusted news source"...? Hmmm... This is the kind of sensationalism that is either appealing to future advertisers, appeasing current advertisers, or both.
Thats The BBC World website.... URL omitted from your screenshot.
Outside of the geo-fenced BBC UK website, its a level playing field, play the other guys at their own game.

Is there something wrong with that??

And, perhaps, The BBC IS Americas most trusted sourced.... because of its impartiality.... knowingly UN-opinionated...
because its not funded by a cat man with an eye patch who lives in a hollowed out volcano.

Perhaps, then, that statement is not an untruth.

You could always file an FOI request with The BBC and ask them for the evidence for this seemingly questionable statement.
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Re: Auntie Wants Me To Sign In

Post by BeebMaster »

Elminster wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 9:48 am

I nearly missed this exciting thread as I thought it was about Beebmasters Auntie.
It's been exciting, hasn't it! Usually my threads only have 3 posts - what's all this mean then - well it's this isn't it, you dummy - oh yes of course. End of thread!!
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Re: Auntie Wants Me To Sign In

Post by KayBur »

*TAPE wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 10:33 am
nismo wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 9:17 am
BBC-News-Banner.png

"America's most trusted news source"...? Hmmm... This is the kind of sensationalism that is either appealing to future advertisers, appeasing current advertisers, or both.
Thats The BBC World website.... URL omitted from your screenshot.
Outside of the geo-fenced BBC UK website, its a level playing field, play the other guys at their own game.

Is there something wrong with that??

And, perhaps, The BBC IS Americas most trusted sourced.... because of its impartiality.... knowingly UN-opinionated...
because its not funded by a cat man with an eye patch who lives in a hollowed out volcano.

Perhaps, then, that statement is not an untruth.

You could always file an FOI request with The BBC and ask them for the evidence for this seemingly questionable statement.
If I watch the news, then only the BBC, because only they can somehow trust. All other channels are corrupt.
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Re: Auntie Wants Me To Sign In

Post by nismo »

*TAPE wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 10:33 am
nismo wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 9:17 am
BBC-News-Banner.png

"America's most trusted news source"...? Hmmm... This is the kind of sensationalism that is either appealing to future advertisers, appeasing current advertisers, or both.
Thats The BBC World website.... URL omitted from your screenshot.
Outside of the geo-fenced BBC UK website, its a level playing field, play the other guys at their own game.

Is there something wrong with that??
The veracity of the statement wasn't being questioned. What was being questioned was its necessity.

Mind you, being here (Japan) and having English-configured browsers serve American-targetted content is well played. The BBC appear to know their demographic well. As a statement I admit it may well appeal to their target demographic. I just thought it was a cheap tactic and suspected they may have been put up to it by an advertiser. If becoming trustworthy, or increasing your trustworthiness, boiled down to simply bragging about it, what a wonderful world that would be :?

As a national broadcaster, though, the BBC's activities across the whole of their organisation ought to reflect their core values at home otherwise domestic dissatisfaction with the parts that don't will diminish the trust base with respect to the parts of the organisation that need it the most.
*TAPE wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 10:33 am
Thats The BBC World website.... URL omitted from your screenshot.
Outside of the geo-fenced BBC UK website, its a level playing field, play the other guys at their own game.
The URL was one linked to in the post. BBC probably filters by IP and browser language then maps to geolocated locale-matched content. Standard practice.
*TAPE wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 10:33 am
You could always file an FOI request with The BBC and ask them for the evidence for this seemingly questionable statement.
Ahhh.. flippancy. That great builder of bridges...
Last edited by nismo on Wed May 05, 2021 1:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Auntie Wants Me To Sign In

Post by BigEd »

Might be very nearly time to close this thread - more heat than light.
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Re: Auntie Wants Me To Sign In

Post by *TAPE »

nismo wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 1:23 pm
BBC probably filters by IP and browser language then maps to geolocated locale-matched content. Standard practice.
Not so much probably. It does..... because of Parliaments geo-fencing debate.
nismo wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 1:23 pm
*TAPE wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 10:33 am
You could always file an FOI request with The BBC and ask them for the evidence for this seemingly questionable statement.
Ahhh.. flippancy. That great builder of bridges...
Not how it was intended. More, if you doubt or question the authenticity of statement, then, as its The BBC, they can't be doing such things without the grounds to do so, and would have some sort of evidence, to which you are entitled.
Other than that, its outside the UK, so they're free to do what the other guys do.
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Re: Auntie Wants Me To Sign In

Post by nismo »

*TAPE wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 1:53 pm
Not how it was intended.
Understood :D . No need for an FOI request. I trust the BBC. For now...
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Re: Auntie Wants Me To Sign In

Post by Coeus »

*TAPE wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 10:33 am
nismo wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 9:17 am
BBC-News-Banner.png

"America's most trusted news source"...? Hmmm... This is the kind of sensationalism that is either appealing to future advertisers, appeasing current advertisers, or both.
Thats The BBC World website.... URL omitted from your screenshot.
Outside of the geo-fenced BBC UK website, its a level playing field, play the other guys at their own game.
As to whether the statement is true or not, it seems a sufficiently ill-defined concept that it would be hard to prove one way or the other.

I suspect the BBC has, for a long time, got revenue by selling content to other places where it isn't provided in exchange for the license fee and it was no doubt this that caused the missing Morcamble and Wise episodes to be recovered - the ones found on b/w film in Sierra Leone. The more their budget is squeezed the more they will look to generate revenue by other means.

Starting to take adverts, even if they are only shown to visitors thought to be outside the UK, is a slipperly slope, though. What happens when the advertiser is a multi-national who has a UK office and is offended by something on the UK part of the site? In theory it is possible for them to simply decline the advetising in that case but that could surely apply to the UK too if those booking the advertising were fine upright people. So, apart from allowing the content to be broadcast uninterrpted, not taking adverting for the channels that face the UK population is also about not just not being influenced but being seen to be beyond influence.
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Re: Auntie Wants Me To Sign In

Post by 1024MAK »

Coeus wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 3:39 pm
I suspect the BBC has, for a long time, got revenue by selling content to other places where it isn't provided in exchange for the license fee and it was no dount this that caused the missing Morcamble and Wise episodes to be recovered. The more their budget is squeezed the more they will look to generate revenue by other means.
BBC Worldwide Ltd. merged with BBC Studios on 1 April. BBC Studios is a commercial subsidiary of the BBC Group. As a commercial company, it uses advertising both in the U.K. and outside the U.K. And it will sell content to other companies and organisations. See also UKTV.

See what Wikipedia says about it here.
The BBC Studios web site is here.

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Re: Auntie Wants Me To Sign In

Post by 1024MAK »

Now then, since the subject has rather drifted away from the original question, can any of you answer these questions:
  1. Who owns Channel 4 television?
  2. Which countries does Channel 4 television broadcast in/to?
  3. Which other U.K. channel is funded by the license fee?
  4. Which other broadcaster had some of it’s digital switch over costs funded by TV license money?
  5. Which TV channels / broadcasters in the U.K. (other than the BBC) have at least some public service obligations that they have to fulfil?
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Re: Auntie Wants Me To Sign In

Post by BeebMaster »

If it helps to understand what's been happening, I wanted to read the rescued swan story, which I clicked and got the sign-in screen.

It appears that the URL I was sent to was this:

https://session.bbc.co.uk/session?ptrt= ... e-56995224

whereas it should have gone straight to this:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-l ... e-56995224
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Re: Auntie Wants Me To Sign In

Post by *TAPE »

Coeus wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 3:39 pm
I suspect the BBC has, for a long time, got revenue by selling content to other places
It has.
Is there something wrong with that?

Part of the reason The BBC has gone in to big budget productions in recent years is the resale value it has for other territories. If you spend £X million on this, you can flog it to 43 other territories for a further £Y million.

The one that really got away, that really made some red faces at The BBC was Bake Off.
The BBC did not own the intelectual property. As the rough diamond was polished on BBC2 and the IP was sold around the world, they made nothing from it, and that also give rise to the national scandal of the move to Channel 4. It caused The BBC to change tack over ownership of products after that.

BUT, this is not limited to programmes.
The BBC will make a programme for you.
You can hire BBC facilities.

TFI Friday (Channel 4) was produced in the Riverside Studios. ALL of the kit was provided by BBC Outside Broadcast Resources.... for no other reason than they were the cheapest in the market at the time. Cheapest because they were subsidised by.... US!

Sky Sports used BBC OBs for football for a couple of seasons in the late 1990s, because the were cheap. Although the relationship didn't last long because their OB vehicles did not lend themselves to Sky Sports working environment, and BBC engineering staff were.... Lets say, not quite of the fashion to which Sky required.

Then the OB department became a separate company (SIS Live) that was managed dreadfully, and couldn't cope in the free market place. It was closed down in 2013. Incidentally, one year after Arqiva closed down their own Outside Broadcast company. Unlike SIS Live it was doing very well. It was just that Arqiva couldn't understand why an OB truck was out of date 5 years after you built it.... unlike a transmitter or a satellite that just printed money.


Since August 2020, The BBC has been providing football coverage, for a fee, for both BT and Sky Sports..... though you wouldn't know.

Because all of the football has been behind closed doors, and Whitehall wanted to get it back on telly (to prevent riots in the streets), there was suddenly a requirement to provide a higher spec of more coverage than would normally be done.
BBC only has 'Entertainment' broadcast licences and so couldn't deliver wall to wall football, so Sky and BT had to carry the extra footy. BT and Sky don't have enough staff to conduct the extra OBs, and nor did, in some cases, their contracted OB companies don't have enough production vehicles to cover it all. So The BBC has provided coverage for the both of them, with its own contracted provider.

I don't see anything wrong in The BBC generating extra income from producing content for others. It's making money back for UK Limited.
And some of the haters really don't like that..... and I can't understand it.
Did they object when (in the rose tinted old days) BA made a profit?

Coeus wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 3:39 pm
Starting to take adverts, even if they are only shown to visitors thought to be outside the UK
I believe BBC World has done for some time, has it not?


1024MAK wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 4:02 pm
BBC Worldwide Ltd. merged with BBC Studios on 1 April. BBC Studios is a commercial subsidiary of the BBC Group.
And this makes a some people in LE and drama production sector very angry.
That a private company is permitted to use the letters BBC in its name. It is a private company. It is NOT The BBC.


I can't help with questions 1 or 2, but....
1024MAK wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 4:23 pm
3. Which other U.K. channel is funded by the license fee?
I believe Channel 4 is up to 50% licence fee funded. The haters always conveniently miss this little gem.
As is S4C.
UKTV (Dave, etc) I believe is/was a joint venture with ITV, as a means/place where they could put all of their old/classic content, and generate income from it.
Channel 7 "local TV" I believe also gets a drip feed of funding from the licence fee.

1024MAK wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 4:23 pm
4. Which other broadcaster had some of it’s digital switch over costs funded by TV license money?
And therein lies more things Joe Public doesn't know.
A long time ago the transmission networks (transmitters, antennas, repeaters, feeds to transmitters, etc) were run by The BBC and IBA.
Then a certain government sold it all off to the market economy.
For quite a while now it's all been looked after by Arqiva. They now own all of the TV transmitters.
Broadcasters merely provide the relevant feeds.
Arqiva then sort of the multiplexing and transmission.

The more megabits you want, the more Arqiva charge you.
i.e. Transmitting BBC1 SD costs more than ITV4 SD.....because its a higher bit rate.

The BBC have on occasions been known to intentionally increase the bit rates of some TV channels.
e.g. Will & Kates wedding
It costs more, but it makes your pictures look better than the other guys!
.....another cheap card trick!

Who paid for switch over?
..... I believe everyone pitched in to pay Arqiva to "upgrade" the network.
For the broadcasters though, there was nothing to do, other than continue providing video and audio feeds, usually in native SDI video.

1024MAK wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 4:23 pm
5. Which TV channels / broadcasters in the U.K. (other than the BBC) have at least some public service obligations that they have to fulfil?
ITV certainly. But no-one pummels ITV if it glosses over something.
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Re: Auntie Wants Me To Sign In

Post by Coeus »

*TAPE wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 9:02 pm
It has.
Is there something wrong with that?
I don't think there is. I certainly wasn't complaining about it.
*TAPE wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 9:02 pm
The one that really got away, that really made some red faces at The BBC was Bake Off.
The BBC did not own the intelectual property. As the rough diamond was polished on BBC2 and the IP was sold around the world, they made nothing from it, and that also give rise to the national scandal of the move to Channel 4. It caused The BBC to change tack over ownership of products after that.
When you say didn't own the IP, are you complaining that whover has the initial idea gets all the royalies leaving none for those who develop the idea into a watchable programme?
*TAPE wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 9:02 pm
Coeus wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 3:39 pm
Starting to take adverts, even if they are only shown to visitors thought to be outside the UK
I believe BBC World has done for some time, has it not?
This was the central point of my post. I assume from the rest of your post and 1024MAK's that the official line here is that because it is the commercial arm that are taking the advertising, and editorial control rests with the public service broadcasting arm, who are free not to simply take whatever the commcerial arm produce, that independence can be maintained. It may even be true.
*TAPE wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 9:02 pm
I believe Channel 4 is up to 50% licence fee funded. The haters always conveniently miss this little gem.
I had never seen funding figures but I do know they are considered a public service broadcaster. In the early days they did broadcast some way out and at time risque content in an effort to do something that was not already being done well by the BBC.
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Re: Auntie Wants Me To Sign In

Post by *TAPE »

Coeus wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 10:00 pm
*TAPE wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 9:02 pm
The one that really got away, that really made some red faces at The BBC was Bake Off.
The BBC did not own the intelectual property. As the rough diamond was polished on BBC2 and the IP was sold around the world, they made nothing from it, and that also give rise to the national scandal of the move to Channel 4. It caused The BBC to change tack over ownership of products after that.
When you say didn't own the IP, are you complaining that whover has the initial idea gets all the royalies leaving none for those who develop the idea into a watchable programme?
Love Productions own Bake Off outright.
The BBC didn't develop it, Love Productions did.

Sure, there were changes in the first few series after consultation with the broadcaster. But it was all still the property of Love.
No-one at The BBC thought Love would run off to another channel, which they were entirely free to do.

It's, sadly, the state of the production market.
No broadcasters make programmes any more. They commission production companies to make them.
And, most of the main broadcaster are unwilling to gamble on something new themselves.
You spend a heap load of money developing a new format.
e.g. The 9 bit show ('coz its 1 more than 8 )
If it tanks half way through series one, you've lost a heap load of money down the pipe.
The sets, the studio hire, the presenters contracts, the graphic design, the sound effects.

So its now the production companies that develop ideas, and then pitch them to the broadcasters.
Love Productions developed Bake Off themselves.
It was their outlay.

And that's why telly is so bland now.
Channel commissioners sit there and say bring me original programmes like x, y, and z.
It costs the production companies to develop a programme, and when the channel commissioner at the afore mentioned broadcaster is a repeat offender at saying No, why would you bother.

The UK TV sector is a game of musical chairs for channel commissioners at the moment.
Even FAANG are starting to buy in to it....
Apple TV bagged Jay Hunt from Channel 4.
Her first commissions?
A load of programmes which only 40-somethings might be interested in.


Coeus wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 10:00 pm
and editorial control rests with the public service broadcasting arm
Im not sure. That would be an editorial decision. I would sincerely hope so.


Coeus wrote:
Wed May 05, 2021 10:00 pm
In the early days they did broadcast some way out and at time risque content in an effort to do something that was not already being done well by the BBC.
They did, and as a youth I made sure I watched most of it! ....if I did only have a black and white telly!
Don't forget, The BBC were being hounded by Mary Whitehouse at the time though.

And then along came Channel 5..... and used all the same tricks in its early years, with volumes of late night softcore! .....or so Im told!

When Channel 4 commissioned Naked Attraction there was a lot of noise in the industry that they had gone back to their roots!


BTW, BT Sport is up for sale.
This is because Whitehall made BT split from Openreach.... too much market dominance.

So BT now does not have enough collateral to sustain costly football deals.... like ALL of the Champions League.
Its no secret they're in talks with a PSB.... but no-one outside of Olympic Park knows which one.

Many suspect its The BBC. They've got more sport content than they can show. This would give them the means to launch a BBC Sport channel. And there's going to be an absolute tsunami of sporting events this summer!
The Daily Telegraph suspects its ITV. .....but they've got no money.
The curve ball is that Channel 4 set up a sports department last year in Leeds.

Who ever buys BT Sport, will get Premier and Champions Leagues, and a whole load of rugby union.
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Re: Auntie Wants Me To Sign In

Post by scruss »

daveejhitchins wrote:
Sat May 01, 2021 7:04 am
Would you really expect to be able to watch a paid-for service without signing-in?
Except it's not: no TV licences in Canada, and bbc.com / bbc.co.uk have been free up until now
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