Cave

reminisce about bbc micro & electron games like chuckie egg, repton, elite & exileRelated forum: adventures


User avatar
BeebMaster
Posts: 2867
Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2009 4:59 pm
Location: Lost in the BeebVault!
Contact:

Cave

Post by BeebMaster » Thu Sep 09, 2010 7:45 pm

Hello folks! I don't usually wander in here much, generally confining myself to the explosions & dodgy wiring section, but I mentioned to our Arcadian leader the other day that I had a copy of Cave and thought it would be nice if I could make it available to anyone who wants to play, as it doesn't seem to be floating around in tinterwebland much, and he said to put it in here.

It's my first contribution to the world of games for some time, since I was able to donate a copy of the apparently lost Tower of Hanoi a few years back.

So, four days of my life, a BBC Master 128 with ARM7 co-pro, BBC B with 8271 DFS and 6502 cheese wedge, Master 512 with CPFS, Master Turbo, laptop PC running Windows 95, Ubuntu PC, Windows XP PC, 3 cups of lukewarm tea, 89 cups of stone-cold tea, 4 dual floppy drives, 2 single floppy drives and 10 discs later....

...here it is!

Just a word of explanation. Cave came to me as an archive which has to be unzipped onto the network to run. I can't quite remember where I got it from now, it was a while ago and it might have been during that wet weekend in Stoke-on-Trent at last year's Byte-Back when I hoovered up most of the contents of Joel's MDFS.

I thought that just uploading the archive wouldn't be much use to anyone, especially people who might want to play Cave but don't have their own working Econet at home. "People don't want to be sitting around typing in * commands for four days like I did", thunk I, "people want to be able to play Cave by shoving in a disc and pressing SHIFT-BREAK".

And so they can!

Here's how it works. Below is a zip file I've made containing Everything You'll Ever Need to Play Cave But Were Afraid To *ASK. It contains archive files and retrieval utilities, which should really only be needed in extreme emergencies, and disc images.

The !ReadMe file contains all the info on what's in the zip file, but in case you want to know before deciding to commit to 4 seconds' downloading time this is what you'll find:

- an archive called CaveArc, the original file I collected from somewhere or other, together with the BBC micro utility UnZip to unzip it.
- an archive called CaveGBack, which I made using Acorn's Level 2/3 Econet archiver "Archive", and the BBC BASIC utility "GetBack" to restore it.
- two DFS disc images, the first containing the archives and retrieval utilities and the Level 2 File Server code, and the second containing a Level 2 File Server area with Cave already loaded.
- an ADFS/Level 3 combined disc image containing the archives and the Level 3 file server in the ADFS bit, and an Econet bit containing Cave already installed.

Obviously Cave is an Econet game so it needs to be run on some sort of working Econet installation, be it genuine or emulated. The easiest thing to do, if you have the right hardware, is to make up a disc of the ADFS image, bung this in a Master (or 1770 BBC B with ADFS) & second processor and press SHIFT-A-BREAK. This will automatically load the Level 3 file server, mount the Econet storage area on the disc and start the server. Then you can begin a game of Cave from another station with SHIFT-N-BREAK.

The DFS version is provided for anyone who doesn't have anything more advanced than an 8271 Beeb. This requires two discs because unfortunately you can't combine DFS data and Econet data on the same disc. It also requires a disc change because the Level 2 file server is too thick to think that you might put a disc with the file server code in drive 0 and a disc with Econet data in drive 1. Or you might not have two drives.

So to start the DFS version, put the first disc in the drive of a BBC B with 6502 second processor and type SHIFT-D-BREAK. This will load the Level 2 file server and then prompt for the disc change. Put the second disc in and press a key and the Level 2 server will start. Then play Cave from another station with SHIFT-N-BREAK.

If you have dual drives, you can put disc 1 in drive 1 and disc 2 in drive 0 and start things off with *EXEC :1.!Boot but you'll still be prompted for the disc change, although you won't have to do anything except press a key.

This all works on a real Econet but if you want to play it on an emulator, you're on your own to a certain extent! I've tried it briefly on BeebEm. I don't use emulators much, and the version I have is 4.12, not sure how current that is.

There are a few tweaks you'll have to do, such as enable networking, enable 6502 second processor, switch off freezing, and switch off write protect on the floppy drives. Sometimes it doesn't seem to work at all, but I've found it's a bit more reliable if you start all the instances of BeebEm that you're going to need first, then use the first one as the file server and wait till it's finished loading before trying anything on one of the other instances.

Hope it's of some use to somebody - good luck!
Cave.zip
(334.46 KiB) Downloaded 256 times
Image

User avatar
sirmorris
Posts: 773
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:18 pm
Location: oxfordshire uk
Contact:

Re: Cave

Post by sirmorris » Thu Sep 09, 2010 10:09 pm

=D> =D>

User avatar
BeebMaster
Posts: 2867
Joined: Sun Aug 02, 2009 4:59 pm
Location: Lost in the BeebVault!
Contact:

Re: Cave

Post by BeebMaster » Thu Sep 09, 2010 10:41 pm

Thank you - could that mean it works?
Image

Prime
Posts: 2784
Joined: Sun May 31, 2009 11:52 pm
Contact:

Re: Cave

Post by Prime » Fri Sep 10, 2010 12:20 am

BeebMaster wrote:Thank you - could that mean it works?
With Sirmorris, only if it works on an Atom :) :) :)

Phill.

User avatar
sirmorris
Posts: 773
Joined: Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:18 pm
Location: oxfordshire uk
Contact:

Re: Cave

Post by sirmorris » Fri Sep 10, 2010 6:54 am

Phill's right ;)

I was just applauding your contribution :)

station240
Posts: 864
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 6:11 pm
Location: South Australia
Contact:

Re: Cave

Post by station240 » Fri Sep 10, 2010 7:05 am

Neat, finally a econet only game. There must be more econet only software out there surely ?

I'll figure out how to get this transferred to real hardware later. Got other things to do at the moment.

User avatar
AndyF
Posts: 1276
Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2008 10:16 pm
Location: Derby
Contact:

Re: Cave

Post by AndyF » Sat Sep 11, 2010 10:38 am

Thanks :D

I've heard about this although never had chance to try it.


I'd agree it would be nice to see more econet software but I am not really aware of much, I do remember a DTP type program (educational) called NewsNet although I have never been able to track it down (and the version we had years ago did not work due to a couple of missing files)
Andy

* NEW * The Jetset Willy and Manic Miner community :)

Adventure games ported across to the BBC (in progress) as soon as I can find some time!

User avatar
jgharston
Posts: 3673
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:22 am
Location: Whitby/Sheffield
Contact:

Re: Cave

Post by jgharston » Sat Sep 11, 2010 5:34 pm

station240 wrote:Neat, finally a econet only game. There must be more econet only software out there surely ?
http://mdfs.net/Apps/Networking for a start.

Code: Select all

$ bbcbasic
PDP11 BBC BASIC IV Version 0.25
(C) Copyright J.G.Harston 1989,2005-2015
>_

station240
Posts: 864
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 6:11 pm
Location: South Australia
Contact:

Re: Cave

Post by station240 » Wed Nov 10, 2010 4:39 am

Finally got around to installing this on the Level3, its and interesting game in all respects. The anti hacking protection is evil :evil: as it prevents me fixing some of the bugs. Seems some of the text screens reply on the slowness of the network drive, and my CF setup is too fast, so some of the instructions are almost unreadable as they fly past.

Despite the file verification code, I did managed to hack one fix.

Code: Select all

*LOAD GOING
$&3071="NET"
*SAVE GOING 3000 +47A
This gets rid of the "log me out of the network" bug feature. Which is annoying when you want to play again.

User avatar
jgharston
Posts: 3673
Joined: Thu Sep 24, 2009 11:22 am
Location: Whitby/Sheffield
Contact:

Re: Cave

Post by jgharston » Sat Nov 20, 2010 1:58 pm

in the instructions it is wrote:then unpack it using *UNZIP CAVEARC or CHAIN"UNZIP".
BBC UNZIP will pick up command line parameters from CHAIN, so CHAIN "UNZIP CAVEARC" will work as well.

Code: Select all

$ bbcbasic
PDP11 BBC BASIC IV Version 0.25
(C) Copyright J.G.Harston 1989,2005-2015
>_

User avatar
nOmArch
Posts: 1330
Joined: Fri May 21, 2010 7:27 pm
Location: Gloucestershire
Contact:

Re: Cave

Post by nOmArch » Sun Sep 18, 2011 2:24 pm

Anyone got a copy of the PUTGET file?

I've installed cave on the network as a user but when I run it if I select Y for played cave before it just bombs out with a

NOT THIS MACHINE!!!!!!! error

and if I select N it goes through the intro screen (which I don't think I've ever seen before) before it bombs out with the same error.

Looking at the Server Status window it's trying to load PUTGET from the Library and I can't find it anywhere on the cave discs or in the MDFS Network Library.
Alex

Back up to 1 Beeb again. \o/

station240
Posts: 864
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 6:11 pm
Location: South Australia
Contact:

Re: Cave

Post by station240 » Mon Sep 19, 2011 2:44 am

nOmArch wrote:Anyone got a copy of the PUTGET file?

Looking at the Server Status window it's trying to load PUTGET from the Library and I can't find it anywhere on the cave discs or in the MDFS Network Library.
Ah it seems PUTGET is built into ANFS, eg all Master series machines. But obviously not on earlier Model B's.

http://mdfs.net/Archive/BBCMicro/2006/09/05/135731.htm
*PUTGET is an SJ thing to block together single byte read/write calls
into
one chunk - a cache in effect. Because of the Econet overheads in
writing
a single byte at a time, it made BGET/BPUT quicker as it would get (or
put) a load of bytes at once. ACCEL also did something similar, and I
think the Master had it built into the OS.

I'm not sure if CAVE requires it, but it was there on the version I got,
so I guess someone thought it necessary.
So there you go, you just need to find a copy of the SJ network library. They made the SJ MDFS, which should give you a clue who to ask :idea:

Make sure you also have *UNPROT as that is the next thing it calls.

User avatar
nOmArch
Posts: 1330
Joined: Fri May 21, 2010 7:27 pm
Location: Gloucestershire
Contact:

Re: Cave

Post by nOmArch » Mon Sep 19, 2011 9:42 am

Thanks

Already been through the MDFS.net networks page but can't find it.

I have sent someone a PM.
Alex

Back up to 1 Beeb again. \o/

User avatar
nOmArch
Posts: 1330
Joined: Fri May 21, 2010 7:27 pm
Location: Gloucestershire
Contact:

Re: Cave

Post by nOmArch » Mon Sep 19, 2011 11:10 am

Just tried it on one of my Masters and it works! so far I have been killed by the rat, the drunk and the dragon :lol:

Weird thing is that even the Master can't find the PUTGET file. If I type *PUTGET it just gives 'Bad Command'

Did you manage to get it working on a B?

EDIT: Is there any documentation for this anywhere? I have spent a while googling and wiki'ing and found loads about Colossal Cave which I assume Cave is based on but absolutely nothing about the Econet Multi player version.

Surely there must of been some instructions or configuration documentation? even if it was just to show how to install and use it properly.
Alex

Back up to 1 Beeb again. \o/

station240
Posts: 864
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 6:11 pm
Location: South Australia
Contact:

Re: Cave

Post by station240 » Mon Sep 19, 2011 3:51 pm

You should find you have a file in there called !ReadMe, seems those are the only instructions you'll get.

I've put a copy of PUTGET in the zip file, its untested but should work, I just don't have a Model B to test it on.
Attachments
PUTGET.zip
(556 Bytes) Downloaded 103 times

User avatar
nOmArch
Posts: 1330
Joined: Fri May 21, 2010 7:27 pm
Location: Gloucestershire
Contact:

Re: Cave

Post by nOmArch » Mon Sep 19, 2011 5:08 pm

Cheers Dude :D

EDIT: The only !readme file I have is the one Beebmaster wrote, which is quite useful to get the thing going but no help with the game itself, XOR software must of produced some sort of manual/guide when they released the game BITD?
Alex

Back up to 1 Beeb again. \o/

User avatar
nOmArch
Posts: 1330
Joined: Fri May 21, 2010 7:27 pm
Location: Gloucestershire
Contact:

Re: Cave

Post by nOmArch » Mon Sep 19, 2011 6:47 pm

PUTGET doesn't like either my Master or B, when I run it I get a single beep and the screen goes out of sync.

I have probably set the filetype wrongly as I'm buggered if I can work out how to use the inf file to set the correct one.
Alex

Back up to 1 Beeb again. \o/

station240
Posts: 864
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 6:11 pm
Location: South Australia
Contact:

Re: Cave

Post by station240 » Tue Sep 20, 2011 4:51 am

nOmArch wrote:PUTGET doesn't like either my Master or B, when I run it I get a single beep and the screen goes out of sync.

I have probably set the filetype wrongly as I'm buggered if I can work out how to use the inf file to set the correct one.
Ah sounds like the load and exec addresses are wrong. Anyway you know it runs as *PUTGET ?

*INFO PUTGET should return FFFF0900 for the addresses.

User avatar
nOmArch
Posts: 1330
Joined: Fri May 21, 2010 7:27 pm
Location: Gloucestershire
Contact:

Re: Cave

Post by nOmArch » Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:22 am

*INFO returns

PUTGET FFFFFD52 15707DA0 00015C
01:01:81 10F96F

Tried setting the type to 0900 but didn't work.
Alex

Back up to 1 Beeb again. \o/

station240
Posts: 864
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 6:11 pm
Location: South Australia
Contact:

Re: Cave

Post by station240 » Tue Sep 20, 2011 11:27 am

nOmArch wrote:*INFO returns

PUTGET FFFFFD52 15707DA0 00015C
01:01:81 10F96F

Tried setting the type to 0900 but didn't work.
^ Well there is your problem

It should be:
PUTGET FFFF0900 FFFF0900 00015C

User avatar
nOmArch
Posts: 1330
Joined: Fri May 21, 2010 7:27 pm
Location: Gloucestershire
Contact:

Re: Cave

Post by nOmArch » Tue Sep 20, 2011 1:23 pm

Indeed, how do I change it? I tried using the set type command on the A5000 but no joy.

EDIT: Tried using BBCIM to turn PUTGET & PUTGET.INF into an ssd but the lead/exec information is way out.

I thought the whole point of bbcim was that it read the .inf file and set the load/exec info accordingly.

Is it not possible to create a sparc archive which I can simply unpack on the A5000?
Alex

Back up to 1 Beeb again. \o/

station240
Posts: 864
Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2010 6:11 pm
Location: South Australia
Contact:

Re: Cave

Post by station240 » Tue Sep 20, 2011 5:28 pm

*grumble grumble*

how to fix it from the beeb itself
1) *LOAD PUTGET 0900
2 *SAVE PUTGET FFFF0900 +15C FFFF0900

User avatar
nOmArch
Posts: 1330
Joined: Fri May 21, 2010 7:27 pm
Location: Gloucestershire
Contact:

Re: Cave

Post by nOmArch » Tue Sep 20, 2011 8:47 pm

Thanks, I'll give it a go tomorrow.
Alex

Back up to 1 Beeb again. \o/

User avatar
nOmArch
Posts: 1330
Joined: Fri May 21, 2010 7:27 pm
Location: Gloucestershire
Contact:

Re: Cave

Post by nOmArch » Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:39 am

With the putget attributes correctly set

on the B I get

Channel

Bad program

On the Master I get

Net channel on channel 35

Bad program

EDIT: Funny thing is once I set the attributes to FFFF0900 and save it back to the Library directory. It decides that PUTGET should be in a subdirectory called PRL and tries to run it from there. Only way I can get the file to execute is by creating a PRL directory and putting it in there.

Then it works but gives the same errors above.
Alex

Back up to 1 Beeb again. \o/

User avatar
nOmArch
Posts: 1330
Joined: Fri May 21, 2010 7:27 pm
Location: Gloucestershire
Contact:

Re: Cave

Post by nOmArch » Sat Oct 01, 2011 7:19 pm

I haven't managed to get the PUTGET command working yet but I have worked out how to get cave running on my B,

Load the MC file from the disc, and edit line 40 to read GOTO 90.

The problem was caused by me having the print server rom in my B and Cave checks to see if it's being run on a print server, if so it bombs out. Changing line 40 simply bypasses the print server check.
Alex

Back up to 1 Beeb again. \o/

User avatar
nOmArch
Posts: 1330
Joined: Fri May 21, 2010 7:27 pm
Location: Gloucestershire
Contact:

Re: Cave

Post by nOmArch » Mon Oct 10, 2011 11:36 am

Many thanks to JGH for providing a working version of Putget =D>
Alex

Back up to 1 Beeb again. \o/

Mewcenary
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2011 4:25 pm
Contact:

Re: Cave

Post by Mewcenary » Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:35 am

I found this thread as a result of a Google search. I've been looking for 'Cave' in general, having played it a lot in my school days.

I have not had the chance yet to try out the archives (never used a BBC emulator before) but many thanks for providing it.

We used to run it on a Level 3 network. Certainly, the BBC B startup times for the game were awful. Easily took several minutes. I never quite understood WHY though - anyone who is looking at the source got any ideas? What is it doing?

We used a simple program to automatically send "*I AM TESTCAVE CAVERS* to all the workstations to kick it off.

However, there was a second version of Cave! "Cave Plus". Is this one kicking around? Certainly, the startup time for this version was much improved.

I don't remember a character editor, but Cave Plus did come with a monitoring program that could be run on a workstation. It allowed the user to see what was going on in the game.

Mewcenary
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2011 4:25 pm
Contact:

Re: Cave

Post by Mewcenary » Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:37 am

Incidentally, I would appreciate a 'step by step' guide for getting this running on an emulator! I appreciate that two processes would be required, one for the Level 2 server and one to play the game on? Sadly, I do not own any actual BBC hardware...

User avatar
nOmArch
Posts: 1330
Joined: Fri May 21, 2010 7:27 pm
Location: Gloucestershire
Contact:

Re: Cave

Post by nOmArch » Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:57 am

Sorry can't help with the emulators as I am running on real hardware but it certainly doesn't take a couple of minutes to get Cave going more like about 30 seconds.

Cave+ sounds very intriguing do you have any more info about it? From what I remember the Cave character editor was a hack someone wrote as was promptly disabled by our computer master as everyone gave themselves Wizard status and went round zapping all the first years. good times :)
Alex

Back up to 1 Beeb again. \o/

Mewcenary
Posts: 8
Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2011 4:25 pm
Contact:

Re: Cave

Post by Mewcenary » Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:31 am

Cave+. Well, we had an officially purchased version of it, so I know it was a legit XOB product.

I don't have any more information about it though, sadly. I just remember the increased speed and monitoring tool. No character editor. I think I got my Wizard level character by some other method... just can't remember how!

Would be interesting for someone to comment on how all the networking functioned. We'd have weird situations sometimes where we'd end up with two distinct Caves running at once.

We had ACK on the Archimedes network too. Buggy as anything. Seem to remember that levelling up didn't work at all, and although we purchased it from XOB, it came with the licence information saying it was registered to someone else !!

Post Reply