E-Type on disc

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scarybeasts
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E-Type on disc

Post by scarybeasts » Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:40 am

Hi,

We now have a couple of original E-Type discs archived and they both seem a little buggy, at least on a Model B.

- The version in the FSD->HFE archive fails with a torrent of "Channel?" unless you load it with CHAIN"E_TYPE".
- I've just received an original disc myself, which has a 40T and 80T side. The 40T side is fine but the 80T side fails with "Not Found" and "Bad Program". There are no obvious signs that the disc has been overwritten.

Does anyone have an E-Type disc and model B lying around to see what sort of behavior they get?
This is a 1990 release which is very late in the beeb's lifecycle. Did the releases get correspondingly buggier and less tested?


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Chris

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Re: E-Type on disc

Post by Michael Brown » Tue Aug 25, 2020 8:48 am

Just to let you know that I had an original disc copy of EType back in the day on my old BBC B and it loaded fine and played OK.
However, it may be some sort of emulation problem causing this game not to work correctly. If anyone loads the copy on My Disc050 you should find that it loads correctly and you can select any racetrack to play, but once you've played a track you can no longer load a different one. This problem does not occur if you use Acorn 1770 or Watford DFS.
This same issue applies to Clogger, Repton Infinity and A Question of Sport.
To find out if its an emulation error, it may be possible to try all these games on a real BBC B and see what happens. Sadly mine blew up the other year so I don't have access to one.
It seems odd that these games with extra levels fail to load. It may be that something gets poked over disc space and the directory gets wrecked. However, if that is the case, but they work OK on a real BBC, then maybe there is something the emulators are doing differently.
Hope this helps.

Mick.

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leenew
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Re: E-Type on disc

Post by leenew » Tue Aug 25, 2020 8:49 am

In the notes, I have this as needing a 1770 disc controller.
http://bbcmicro.co.uk/game.php?id=889
I think other 4th Dimension titles may also have this problem.
Lee.
*crossed posts with Mick*

Lee

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scarybeasts
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Re: E-Type on disc

Post by scarybeasts » Tue Aug 25, 2020 8:57 am

leenew wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 8:49 am
In the notes, I have this as needing a 1770 disc controller.
http://bbcmicro.co.uk/game.php?id=889
I think other 4th Dimension titles may also have this problem.
Interesting!
I haven't gotten to testing loading different tracks yet. I'm looking at just the initial load of the game. The 40T side of the disc is fine (8271 or 1770). The 80T side fails to load (8271 or 1770).


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Chris

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billcarr2005
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Re: E-Type on disc

Post by billcarr2005 » Tue Aug 25, 2020 9:30 am

leenew wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 8:49 am
In the notes, I have this as needing a 1770 disc controller.
scarybeasts wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:40 am
- The version in the FSD->HFE archive fails with a torrent of "Channel?" unless you load it with CHAIN"E_TYPE".
I'm not entirely sure whether this is true...
Watford DFS 1.30 *might* have the error, but this could be a problem with the DFS itself - Superior Software's Elixir suffers the same problem - I think it was fixed in 1.43 or 1.44

Emulation error with DFS 1.20 might be a separate issue with how it's emulated within BeebEM. Acorn DFS 0.90 suffers the same problem too?

When lines get crossed, the waters get muddied!
Michael Brown wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 8:48 am
This same issue applies to Clogger, Repton Infinity and A Question of Sport.
It's probably better to use a different emulator, such as the excellent beebjit, rather than hacking around at perfectly adequate code to bodge a fix!

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Re: E-Type on disc

Post by scarybeasts » Tue Aug 25, 2020 10:06 am

billcarr2005 wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 9:30 am
leenew wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 8:49 am
In the notes, I have this as needing a 1770 disc controller.
scarybeasts wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 12:40 am
- The version in the FSD->HFE archive fails with a torrent of "Channel?" unless you load it with CHAIN"E_TYPE".
I'm not entirely sure whether this is true...
Watford DFS 1.30 *might* have the error, but this could be a problem with the DFS itself - Superior Software's Elixir suffers the same problem - I think it was fixed in 1.43 or 1.44

Emulation error with DFS 1.20 might be a separate issue with how it's emulated within BeebEM. Acorn DFS 0.90 suffers the same problem too?
It's a crash with a lot of different combos in beebjit.

8271, DFS-0.9: Disc fault 18 at 58/06 at line 240, error repeats with a bit of craziness
8271, DFS-1.2: Disc fault 18 at 58/03 at line 240
8271, WDFS-1.44: Channel! x 1million
1770, DFS-2.26: Disc fault 18 at :0 0B/03 at line 240
1770, WDDFS-1.54T: Channel! x 1million

I don't think it's even a protected disc so there's nothing tricky here. Perhaps the DFS space is getting smashed and different DFS's are grumpy in different ways.

Heh! Loads in beebjit with E00DFS in slot d as sideways RAM.
So I bet this would work on a Master too if that's all they tested? (Still haven't added Master support to beebjit.)


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Chris

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billcarr2005
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Re: E-Type on disc

Post by billcarr2005 » Tue Aug 25, 2020 1:31 pm

scarybeasts wrote:
Tue Aug 25, 2020 10:06 am

It's a crash with a lot of different combos in beebjit.

8271, DFS-0.9: Disc fault 18 at 58/06 at line 240, error repeats with a bit of craziness
8271, DFS-1.2: Disc fault 18 at 58/03 at line 240
8271, WDFS-1.44: Channel! x 1million
1770, DFS-2.26: Disc fault 18 at :0 0B/03 at line 240
1770, WDDFS-1.54T: Channel! x 1million
I was referring to the loading of additional files, which Mick had mentioned... :wink:
I expect that beebjit has the same behaviour as an actual BBC with the (in)appropriate DFS

Is the track mentioned in the 8271 sector not found disc fault in hex, ie. it's past the number of tracks on the disc?
ISTR that Orbital by Impact / 4th Dimension also doesn't like Watford :(

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