So, here's a thing...

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danielj
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So, here's a thing...

Postby danielj » Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:31 pm

Optical 'n' all :)

mouse.jpg
(39.91 KiB) Downloaded 308 times


It's the £2.60 mouse + £4's worth of cable/components.

I'll pop the build instructions up tomorrow.

d.

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aerworuld
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Re: So, here's a thing...

Postby aerworuld » Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:39 pm

danielj wrote:Optical 'n' all :)

mouse.jpg


It's the £2.60 mouse + £4's worth of cable/components.

I'll pop the build instructions up tomorrow.

d.



:shock: =D> =D>

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1024MAK
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Re: So, here's a thing...

Postby 1024MAK » Mon Jul 15, 2013 9:57 pm

Nice joint :lol:
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steve3000
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Re: So, here's a thing...

Postby steve3000 » Mon Jul 15, 2013 10:59 pm

Nice one :D

Great little optical mice these - thanks for the details Daniel! They work on Archimedes too, a bit fiddly to wire up but not too much effort once you get the connections the right way round.

I've made a surprisingly similar joint, but left the PS/2 connector on there - might need to chop that off, but for the moment I guess it'll work on the A7000 too 8)

mousephoto3.JPG
PS/2 patched to Acorn optical mouse
(736.63 KiB) Downloaded 267 times

More details to follow...

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danielj
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Re: So, here's a thing...

Postby danielj » Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:48 am

1024MAK wrote:Nice joint :lol:


:D

A variety of inappropriately sized bits of heatshrink. I'm completely open to advice on how to create a neat joint between ribbon and 9-core shielded though!

Steve, loving your work. These are superb value little beasts.

Here we go, this is based on the instructions here:
http://www.ian-nic.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/mouse/

You will need:
mouse1.jpg
(31.99 KiB) Downloaded 233 times
(resistors are 47k)

Remove the PS/2 cable and make a decorative ornament with it.

mouse2.jpg
(43.51 KiB) Downloaded 233 times
The source of the crappy join :) (heatshrink too big) - but buggered if I was going to go out and spend money on more...

mouse3.jpg
(43.24 KiB) Downloaded 233 times
The buttons. You need to leave the encapsulated PS/2 encoder intact - it also does the 5V-3V conversion. I wasn't very clever with where I cut the button tracks to the encoder (shouldn't have made the cut at the top of the mouse by the wheel) hence a bit more patching. Resistors pull up to 5V. The button connections need to go to the pads with the resistors on.

mouse5.jpg
(49.13 KiB) Downloaded 233 times
So I brought the button connections around to the top side with some kynar wire. In my version the x/y connections are soldered directly to the tops of the pins on the converter IC -

Code: Select all

XA, pin 12 = Xdir
XB, pin 14 = Xref
YA, pin 15 = Ydir
YB, pin 17 = Yref


+5V and GND soldered directly to where VCC/VSS are labelled.

Job done. Obviously the scroll wheel doesn't work, but that's no biggy. :)

d.

edit: had the dir/refs the wrong way around...
Last edited by danielj on Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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1024MAK
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Re: So, here's a thing... Mouse connection details

Postby 1024MAK » Tue Jul 16, 2013 11:27 am

For Beeb use, I'm using some spare hindsight :wink: , and as I also have Atari ST machines, 9 way D connectors...

So I would do this: :arrow:
Beeb User Port [20 way IDC] ---- 20 way ribbon ---- [9 way IDC D-plug] :arrow:

:arrow: [9 Way Solder Lug D-Socket] ---- Multi-Core Screened Cable ---- [Modified Mouse]

Then I can use the mouse on Beeb's or Atari ST's :wink: 8)

Note that you will have to rearrange the wires in either the 20 way IDC or 9 way IDC D-plug (or use a 9 Way Solder Lug D-plug) as they do not line up.

Of course with different wiring you could arrange for the D-connectors to be wired to Master Compact standard instead :D

Code: Select all

Atari ST Mouse Pin-out vs. Amiga Mouse Pin-out:
Both use 9 way D connectors
Atari Mouse               Amiga Mouse
Pin  Function             Pin   Function
 1   XB................... 4 .. HQ................X Dir
 2   XA................... 2 .. H.................X Axis
 3   YA................... 3 .. VQ................Y Dir
 4   YB................... 1 .. V.................Y Axis
 5   not used / NC........ 5 .. Middle button
 6   Left button.......... 6 .. Left button
 7   +5V dc supply / Vcc.. 7 .. +5V dc supply / Vcc
 8   Ground / GND / 0V.... 8 .. Ground / GND / 0V
 9   Right button......... 9 .. Right button

On the Atari STFM computer pin 5 is not connected internally.

Code: Select all

Master Compact Joystick/Mouse Port
Joystick connections shown in brackets
9 way D connector
1 - PB3 - X Dir         (Up)
2 - PB2 - Right button  (Down)
3 - PB1 - Middle button (Left)
4 - PB4 - Y Dir         (Right)
5 - CB1 - X Axis        (NC)
6 - PB0 - Left button   (Fire)
7 - +5V dc              (+5V dc)
8 - 0V Ground           (0V Ground)
9 - CB2 - Y Axis        (NC)

Code: Select all

BBC Micro User Port (Mouse use)
20 way IDC connector
 2 - CB1 - X Axis
 6 - D0  - X Dir
 4 - CB2 - Y Axis
10 - D2  - Y Dir
16 - D5  - Left button
18 - D6  - Middle button
20 - D7  - Right button
 1 - +5V dc
 5 - 0V Ground

Possible additional parts:
http://www.rapidonline.com/Cables-Conne ... ug-19-0410
http://www.rapidonline.com/Cables-Conne ... et-15-0203
http://www.rapidonline.com/Cables-Conne ... er-15-0230
http://www.rapidonline.com/Cables-Conne ... er-15-0220
http://www.maplin.co.uk/multi-core-scre ... -7-1-c-230 Multi-Core 9-Way Order Code: XR27E

Link to info:
http://mdfs.net/Info/Comp/BBC/Mouse/

Mark
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danielj
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Re: So, here's a thing... Mouse connection details

Postby danielj » Tue Jul 16, 2013 12:06 pm

1024MAK wrote:For Beeb use, I'm using some spare hindsight :wink: , and as I also have Atari ST machines, 9 way D connectors...

So I would do this: :arrow:
Beeb User Port [20 way IDC] ---- 20 way ribbon ---- [9 way IDC D-plug] :arrow:

:arrow: [9 Way Solder Lug D-Socket] ---- Multi-Core Screened Cable ---- [Modified Mouse]

Then I can use the mouse on Beeb's or Atari ST's :wink: 8)


Definitely neater :D that said, for the price of the extra connectors you could buy another mouse!

I was only ever going to use this on the beeb. What would have been ideal is what was used on the original acorn mouse which is a 20pin IDC plug which took crimped sockets, doing away completely with the ribbon and you could just run the flex right into the plug. Haven't been able to spot such a thing though :(

d.

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1024MAK
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Re: So, here's a thing...

Postby 1024MAK » Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:31 pm

If you can find the right cable, that is to say, a cable that has cores very similar in size to IDC cable, and you can cope with the fiddly task of holding multiple wires in place (some extra hands would come in handy :lol: or failing that, blue tack :wink: ), then you could make a custom cable:
BBC custom user port cable photo 1.JPG
(105.78 KiB) Downloaded 182 times
BBC custom user port cable photo 2.JPG
(79.45 KiB) Downloaded 182 times
The above cable is a UPURS cable (as at the time my stash of ribbon cable was in long term storage {= I had not yet found it :oops: }).

Mark
For a "Complete BBC Games Archive" visit www.bbcmicro.co.uk NOW!
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Re: So, here's a thing...

Postby aerworuld » Wed Nov 20, 2013 5:25 pm

Hey Daniel, what proggys have you used this with on the Elk?

Stuart :)

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danielj
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Re: So, here's a thing...

Postby danielj » Thu Nov 21, 2013 8:56 am

Never used it on the elk! Just on the M512 in GEM... It will work with anything that supported a mouse on the elk, I'd have thought (AMX art and the like?)

d.

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Re: So, here's a thing...

Postby aerworuld » Thu Nov 21, 2013 9:14 am

danielj wrote:Never used it on the elk! Just on the M512 in GEM... It will work with anything that supported a mouse on the elk, I'd have thought (AMX art and the like?)

d.


excellent news! Thanks! will add that to my to-do list for 2014 8)

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Re: So, here's a thing...

Postby SimonSideburns » Sun Nov 24, 2013 12:01 am

danielj wrote:(resistors are 47k)


So, they're the most expensive part at 47 grand each :-)
I'm writing a game where you can change your character from a Wizard to a monkey to a cat.

Well, Imogen that!

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danielj
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Re: So, here's a thing...

Postby danielj » Fri Jul 11, 2014 8:32 pm

steve3000 wrote:Nice one :D

Great little optical mice these - thanks for the details Daniel! They work on Archimedes too, a bit fiddly to wire up but not too much effort once you get the connections the right way round.


Steve.... To save me some "intimate moments" with my multimeter when I crack out the 9-pin minidin shortly, did you jot down the cable colours/pin numbers for the RS cable? [-o<

- if it'll take more time to type than me to meter my way across the cable, don't worry :D

d.

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danielj
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Re: So, here's a thing...

Postby danielj » Sun Jul 13, 2014 6:53 pm

For reference, the 9-pin lead from RS (hopefully constant):

Code: Select all

1 Ya (green)
2 Adjust (brown)
3 Yb (grey)
4 Menu (red)
5 0V (yellow)
6 Xb (purple)
7 +5V (blue)
8 Xa (black)
9 Select (white)
Shield heatshrinked...

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danielj
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Re: So, here's a thing...

Postby danielj » Wed Feb 03, 2016 8:10 pm

Hello, just bought one of these:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/361279315310

Which contains one of these:
http://www.alldatasheet.com/datasheet-p ... I-204.html

And hence is suitable for making one of these:
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=6869

d.

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sydney
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Re: So, here's a thing...

Postby sydney » Wed Feb 03, 2016 8:32 pm

I bought 2 of the ps2 ones when you first posted this, I use one on my pc! Not got round to converting the other one as my user ports were full of mmbeebs but now I've moved the master's mmbeeb to the modem connector I think this could be my next hardware project.

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Re: So, here's a thing...

Postby steve3000 » Wed Feb 03, 2016 9:35 pm

Great little mice (mouses!) - I have them on my machines :)

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lazarusr
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Re: So, here's a thing...

Postby lazarusr » Sun Jun 19, 2016 3:47 pm

The link to the blueyonder website with the instructions doesn't seem to work anymore. Is anyone able to re-post what was on that website?

Thanks

P.S. the mouse that everyone appears to be using is available here.

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sydney
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Re: So, here's a thing...

Postby sydney » Sun Jun 19, 2016 3:53 pm

It's on the wayback machine but I think a couple of the large images are missing.

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sydney
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Re: So, here's a thing...

Postby sydney » Sun Jun 19, 2016 3:57 pm

Rather than have a big joint like Daniel had, Jason and I built a little board which we soldered the wires from the mouse to and had a 20 pin idc connector on it so you can use a standard user port connector. I'm going to buy a little project box to protect the board. I'll take a couple of photo's and add them to this post.

20160619_165839.jpg


20160619_165814.jpg

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danielj
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Re: So, here's a thing...

Postby danielj » Sun Jun 19, 2016 4:02 pm

The web archive is your friend:
https://web.archive.org/web/20150501030 ... .uk/mouse/

I don't think there's anything else on that website that you need over and above what's posted here - essentially the idea is to wire up the relevant wires to the quadrature outputs of the IC in the mouse, then pullup resistors to 5v for each of the buttons, and then the wires to the button pads.

d.

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sydney
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Re: So, here's a thing...

Postby sydney » Sun Jun 19, 2016 4:19 pm

It took Jason and I ages to wire up the first mouse but the second took much less time. If you wire it up exactly as Daniel has it'll work. We did the following:
  • Desolder ps2 cable.
  • Solder 5v and gnd where ps2 cable was removed.
  • Soldered wires to pins 12,14,15 and 17 for the x and y axes - make a note of which colour goes where.
  • Cut 3 tracks in the same location Daniel cut them.
  • Soldered the 3 resistors in place.
  • Soldered the 2 bridge wires for the buttons.
  • Soldered 3 wires to the topmost pins of each resistor to join to the cable going to the user port - this bit wasn't obvious but we got there in the end.
  • Soldered the 3 wires above to the main cable.
  • Put mouse back together. You'll need to cut the case a bit here to make it fit. If you use the 9-core cable from Maplin it is very thick and my right button is hard to click so I'm going to try to remove some(all?) of the outer sleeve.
  • Connect the cable up to the stripboard.

Any questions don't hesitate to ask.

Phill (Prime) mentioned at Halifax he either had some ps2 to user port convertor boards or the designs for one which uses a microcontroller for the conversion.

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YuT666
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Re: So, here's a thing...

Postby YuT666 » Sat Apr 22, 2017 10:14 am

Only one question ...

The E Cheetah M04 with the PS2 connector is only available from Ballicom now, so i'm looking for a similar quadrature mouse with 3 buttons.

Any suggestions? Thanks.
Libera Te Ex Inferis ...

Zarchos
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Re: So, here's a thing...

Postby Zarchos » Sat Apr 22, 2017 10:39 am

This discussion there
https://youtu.be/NF_9McTFR20
I had with a nice chap (Antony T Curtis) in the comments, suggests the Leaguer bus mouse LG-BM-3816 is a great find !


Hope this helps.

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YuT666
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Re: So, here's a thing...

Postby YuT666 » Sat Apr 22, 2017 10:46 am

Yes, but this one is more rarely available than the Cheetah (and more expensive too).
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