My First BBC

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duikkie
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Re: My First BBC

Postby duikkie » Wed Oct 04, 2017 4:02 pm

is it disc019 and disc028 that is working ?

on beeb.mmb is it din 136,137

duikkie
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Re: My First BBC

Postby duikkie » Wed Oct 04, 2017 5:35 pm

disk019 is the files on *din 137 (din 136 is another program??)

but the problem is not the disc . yie is running fine
the problem is the SH*T program *menu from din0
it says file not found . no futher info

and i have very much problems with the data file that is made by windows access
so if someone with computer mind windows program access
can look with din and whitch file the database is looking for then we can solve this problem

duikkie wrote:is it disc019 and disc028 that is working ?

on beeb.mmb is it din 136,137

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lurkio
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Re: My First BBC

Postby lurkio » Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:07 pm

duikkie wrote:disk019 is the files on *din 137 (din 136 is another program??) but the problem is not the disc . yie is running fine
the problem is the SH*T program *menu from din0
it says file not found . no futher info and i have very much problems with the data file that is made by windows access so if someone with computer mind windows program access can look with din and whitch file the database is looking for then we can solve this problem

I think the problem is that the MENU program is trying to run $.YIE-AR (with a hyphen/minus, CHR$&2D) but the correct filename is actually $.YIE_AR (the underscore, CHR$&5F, is displayed as a dash in MODE7).

:?:

Commodore
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Re: My First BBC

Postby Commodore » Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:15 pm

Just tried *DIN 136 *EXEC !BOOT, and my Beeb really did NOT like that. It beeped, the screen went garbage briefly, and then listed two different lots of garbage and then froze. I did see reference to Kung Fu 2.

AS for doing the same with *DIN 137, I got file not found.

Disk 19 is not formatted. Disk 28 is File not Found.

duikkie
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Re: My First BBC

Postby duikkie » Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:35 pm

no no disc019 from the site allso disc028 from the side the download ssd


Commodore wrote:Just tried *DIN 136 *EXEC !BOOT, and my Beeb really did NOT like that. It beeped, the screen went garbage briefly, and then listed two different lots of garbage and then froze. I did see reference to Kung Fu 2.

AS for doing the same with *DIN 137, I got file not found.

Disk 19 is not formatted. Disk 28 is File not Found.

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lurkio
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Re: My First BBC

Postby lurkio » Wed Oct 04, 2017 7:37 pm

Commodore wrote:Just tried *DIN 136 *EXEC !BOOT, and my Beeb really did NOT like that. It beeped, the screen went garbage briefly, and then listed two different lots of garbage and then froze. I did see reference to Kung Fu 2.

Try *RUN !BOOT instead of *EXEC !BOOT

When you *CAT the disc, you should see an Option number at the top right-hand side of the catalogue. Option 2 is *RUN. Option 3 is *EXEC.

:idea:

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Re: My First BBC

Postby duikkie » Wed Oct 04, 2017 8:00 pm

on *din 137 this is the error :shock:
so
*rename YIE_AR YIE-AR
solves it for 137

part II has the same error but allso wrong din :evil: :shock: :shock:

try this
*din 2
10 *din 136
20 chain"YIE_AR"

save"YIE-AR"
thus on *din 2 you must have this program

more and more i belief i must rewrite the *menu on *din0 so we can edit all mistakes


lurkio wrote:
duikkie wrote:disk019 is the files on *din 137 (din 136 is another program??) but the problem is not the disc . yie is running fine
the problem is the SH*T program *menu from din0
it says file not found . no futher info and i have very much problems with the data file that is made by windows access so if someone with computer mind windows program access can look with din and whitch file the database is looking for then we can solve this problem

I think the problem is that the MENU program is trying to run $.YIE-AR (with a hyphen/minus, CHR$&2D) but the correct filename is actually $.YIE_AR (the underscore, CHR$&5F, is displayed as a dash in MODE7).

:?:

Commodore
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Re: My First BBC

Postby Commodore » Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:50 am

Thanks both of you. I'll be onto this later when I get back from work.

duikkie
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Re: My First BBC

Postby duikkie » Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:08 am

by then maybe all is changed again :)

if you play with old machines , is it not the time to enjoy your life , and that you have worked long and hard ?

the tittle retro is allso wrong :D , my life is not retro :) is there more then 6502 chip then ?

Commodore wrote:Thanks both of you. I'll be onto this later when I get back from work.

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Re: My First BBC

Postby Commodore » Thu Oct 05, 2017 12:21 pm

lurkio wrote:
Commodore wrote:Just tried *DIN 136 *EXEC !BOOT, and my Beeb really did NOT like that. It beeped, the screen went garbage briefly, and then listed two different lots of garbage and then froze. I did see reference to Kung Fu 2.

Try *RUN !BOOT instead of *EXEC !BOOT

When you *CAT the disc, you should see an Option number at the top right-hand side of the catalogue. Option 2 is *RUN. Option 3 is *EXEC.

:idea:

This is interesting Lurkio. Is *Exec and *Run the difference between a BASIC program and one in machine code? I only ask as a on the Dragon 32, if it is a BASIC program we type CLOAD"", and then RUN, when loaded, but for M/C it would be CLOADM and then EXEC at the prompt. I wondered if something similar was going on here with the BEEB.

Your point is noted for future reference though. These are exactly the kind of hints and tips I love to pick up about different micros.

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Re: My First BBC

Postby Commodore » Thu Oct 05, 2017 12:27 pm

duikkie wrote:on *din 137 this is the error :shock:
so
*rename YIE_AR YIE-AR
solves it for 137


So fo this I must:

*DIN137
*rename YIE_AR YIE-AR
and then it should work?

part II has the same error but allso wrong din :evil: :shock: :shock:

try this
*din 2
10 *din 136
20 chain"YIE_AR"

save"YIE-AR"
thus on *din 2 you must have this program

more and more i belief i must rewrite the *menu on *din0 so we can edit all mistakes


You have been lots of help to me, so happy to help where I can. Even if it is just to try something on a real BBC Computer.

I'll report back on my results with this soon hopefully.

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Re: My First BBC

Postby Commodore » Thu Oct 05, 2017 12:28 pm

duikkie wrote:by then maybe all is changed again :)

if you play with old machines , is it not the time to enjoy your life , and that you have worked long and hard ?

the tittle retro is allso wrong :D , my life is not retro :) is there more then 6502 chip then ?

Commodore wrote:Thanks both of you. I'll be onto this later when I get back from work.



Well it's a bit of harmless fun and quite interesting. 6502 was the boss back then for sure.

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lurkio
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Re: My First BBC

Postby lurkio » Thu Oct 05, 2017 1:21 pm

Commodore wrote:
lurkio wrote:... When you *CAT the disc, you should see an Option number at the top right-hand side of the catalogue. Option 2 is *RUN. Option 3 is *EXEC.

This is interesting Lurkio. Is *Exec and *Run the difference between a BASIC program and one in machine code?

To load a BASIC program from tape/disc, type LOAD "FILNAME" (or alternatively just LOAD "" from tape only).
To load a BASIC program from tape/disc and automatically run it, type CHAIN "FILNAME" (or alternatively just CHAIN "" from tape only).

To load a machine code program from tape/disc, type *LOAD FILNAME (or alternatively just *LOAD from tape only).
To load a machine code program from tape/disc and automatically run it, type *RUN FILNAME (or alternatively just *RUN from tape only).

To execute a series of BASIC commands in a plain-text file, known as an "EXEC file" (similar to a DOS batch file), on tape/disc, type *EXEC FILNAME

To get a list of the files on a tape/disc, type *CAT or its abbreviated form *. (star dot).

There's much more of this essential stuff in the BBC Micro User Guide:


See also the DFS (Disc Filing System) user guides. (Your SmartSPI system is based on DFS, and uses some of the same commands.)

:idea:

Commodore
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Re: My First BBC

Postby Commodore » Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:16 pm

Thanks Lurkio, I'll look at that.

137 is sorted, thank you Duikkie

I tried the little program for 136, and it worked, so how to do this and make it work from the menu?

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Re: My First BBC

Postby lurkio » Thu Oct 05, 2017 4:59 pm

Commodore wrote:I tried the little program for 136, and it worked, so how to do this and make it work from the menu?

As duikkie indicated, the little program has to be saved onto disc number 2, with the filename YIE-AR

:idea:
Last edited by lurkio on Fri Oct 06, 2017 12:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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lurkio
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Re: My First BBC

Postby lurkio » Fri Oct 06, 2017 12:20 am

duikkie wrote:part II has the same error but allso wrong din :evil: :shock: :shock:
try this
*din 2
10 *din 136
20 chain"YIE_AR"

duikkie, I don't think that is correct.

I just did this:

    Code: Select all

    *DUNLOCK 136
    *DIN 136
    *RENAME YIE_AR YIE-AR

And now the menu works! (I'm using BeebEm to test, with mmbeeb.dll and DFSMMB.ROM and this BEEB.MMB file.)

I didn't have to use your little program, and I didn't have to save it on *DIN 2.

:idea:

Commodore
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Re: My First BBC

Postby Commodore » Fri Oct 06, 2017 2:51 am

Sounds good. Again, I'll be trying it later.
I'll let you know how I get on!
Many thanks.

duikkie
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Re: My First BBC

Postby duikkie » Fri Oct 06, 2017 6:14 am

check ckeck and dubble check . mine d.games files wants the file YIE-AR for part 2 on *din 2
if i only *rename YIE_AR YIE-AR on din 136 , still with *menu from *din file not found

so there must be more then one version of d.games file ?? / maybe someone changed it ???


o life was so easy back then , no computers , no errors :)

lurkio wrote:
duikkie wrote:part II has the same error but allso wrong din :evil: :shock: :shock:
try this
*din 2
10 *din 136
20 chain"YIE_AR"

duikkie, I don't think that is correct.

I just did this:

    Code: Select all

    *DUNLOCK 136
    *DIN 136
    *RENAME YIE_AR YIE-AR

And now the menu works! (I'm using BeebEm to test, with mmbeeb.dll and DFSMMB.ROM and this BEEB.MMB file.)

I didn't have to use your little program, and I didn't have to save it on *DIN 2.

:idea:

Commodore
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Re: My First BBC

Postby Commodore » Fri Oct 06, 2017 2:35 pm

All working now, after trying Lurkio's idea.
Many thanks both of you.

Now, if I wanted to do a 100 best games disk of my own, on a new SD card, how could I go about making a bootable menu like the one on STH?
Or is that seriously advanced BBC engineer status stuff?

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Re: My First BBC

Postby lurkio » Fri Oct 06, 2017 3:05 pm

Commodore wrote:Now, if I wanted to do a 100 best games disk of my own, on a new SD card, how could I go about making a bootable menu like the one on STH? Or is that seriously advanced BBC engineer status stuff?

Here's the "official" way to do it. But it seems quite convoluted to me, and I've never done it myself:


I'd suggest that you keep the existing BEEB.MMB file and try programming up a much simpler menu system for it, in BASIC. It'd be a good learning exercise. All that your program would need to do is present users with the 100 options and ask them to choose. And then it would *DIN the correct disc number and then *EXEC (or *RUN) the !BOOT file on the chosen disc.

:idea:
Last edited by lurkio on Fri Oct 06, 2017 3:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.

duikkie
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Re: My First BBC

Postby duikkie » Fri Oct 06, 2017 3:16 pm

it is not easy to chance the d.games file, i tryed it but got only faults. but i am not a windows man , more 6502.

a simple basic program , is a start it will not be fast but it would be simple to change
use DATA to READ.

if you want more then there is 6502, not that hard if you use JSR calls,
.start
jsr screen1
jsr ask
jsr screen2
jsr ask
and a lot more :mrgreen:


lurkio wrote:
Commodore wrote:Now, if I wanted to do a 100 best games disk of my own, on a new SD card, how could I go about making a bootable menu like the one on STH? Or is that seriously advanced BBC engineer status stuff?

Here's the "official" way to do it. But it seems quite convoluted to me, and I've never done it myself:


I'd suggest that you try programming up a much simpler menu system in BASIC. It'd be a good learning exercise. All that your program would need to do is present users with the 100 options and ask them to choose. And then it would *DIN the correct disc number and then *EXEC (or *RUN) the !BOOT file on the chosen disc.

:idea:

Commodore
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Re: My First BBC

Postby Commodore » Fri Oct 06, 2017 5:31 pm

OK, thank you both of you. That is certainly a good start. I think I will probably try both your suggestions Lurkio, they would both be good learning curves. First I will need to choose the 100 though!
Duikkie, I think 6502 may be beyond me yet awhile, but I'd have ago soon.

This really has been a very useful thread for me, so thank you everybody for you assistance and kind welcome.

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Re: My First BBC

Postby lurkio » Sun Oct 08, 2017 6:36 pm

Commodore wrote:We're in business! I formatted the SD Card and tried Shift Break/Break again. Menu came up, I then selected various titles and they all worked, so that is absolutely fantastic

What format did you use, out of interest (re this)?

Was it FAT? Or FAT32? (Or something else?!)

:?:

duikkie
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Re: My First BBC

Postby duikkie » Mon Oct 09, 2017 4:56 am

fat=fat16 or fat12 :)
fat32= for longer filenames :)

it is the way dos stores the filename like in bbc sector 0,1 helps ?

google FAT or FAT16 or FAT32 and you can read :)


lurkio wrote:
Commodore wrote:We're in business! I formatted the SD Card and tried Shift Break/Break again. Menu came up, I then selected various titles and they all worked, so that is absolutely fantastic

What format did you use, out of interest (re this)?

Was it FAT? Or FAT32? (Or something else?!)

:?:

Commodore
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Re: My First BBC

Postby Commodore » Mon Oct 09, 2017 2:28 pm

lurkio wrote:
Commodore wrote:We're in business! I formatted the SD Card and tried Shift Break/Break again. Menu came up, I then selected various titles and they all worked, so that is absolutely fantastic

What format did you use, out of interest (re this)?

Was it FAT? Or FAT32? (Or something else?!)

:?:


Hi Lurkio, sorry for the delay in my reply.

I didn't remember, so I reinserted the SD card into the PC and had a look a Properties. It says the file system is FAT.

The SD card that I have is 128Mb, which is pretty small. I know BBC Files don't take much space, but is the Smart SPI device limited in any way, or could I put a slightly bigger card in, or a spare one from my camera (if that's all that's at hand)?

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Re: My First BBC

Postby lurkio » Mon Oct 09, 2017 2:49 pm

Commodore wrote:
lurkio wrote:What format did you use, out of interest (re this)?
Was it FAT? Or FAT32? (Or something else?!)

I didn't remember, so I reinserted the SD card into the PC and had a look a Properties. It says the file system is FAT.

That's probably why my solution to the Yie-Ar Pt. 2 problem worked for you -- because I think duikkie is saying that what causes problems with the menu is the use of FAT32.


Commodore wrote:The SD card that I have is 128Mb, which is pretty small. I know BBC Files don't take much space, but is the Smart SPI device limited in any way, or could I put a slightly bigger card in, or a spare one from my camera (if that's all that's at hand)?

I think you can use an SD card of any capacity with SmartSPI. I think you can even have multiple different BEEB.MMB files on the same card, but I don't know the details of how to do that. I've never used SmartSPI myself.

:idea:

Commodore
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Re: My First BBC

Postby Commodore » Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:29 pm

OK, thanks Lurkio. Logic was telling me that I could use 64Gb, if I really wanted to (i only would if a spare from my camera was the only thing available), but I didn't know if it would have any adverse effect on the venerable old Beeb.
I'll probably get a 2 or 4 Gb one then, and use that as my main card, and keep my 128 Mb card as for back ups etc.

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Re: My First BBC

Postby Commodore » Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:31 pm

lurkio wrote:
Commodore wrote:
lurkio wrote:What format did you use, out of interest (re this)?
Was it FAT? Or FAT32? (Or something else?!)

I didn't remember, so I reinserted the SD card into the PC and had a look a Properties. It says the file system is FAT.

That's probably why my solution to the Yie-Ar Pt. 2 problem worked for you -- because I think duikkie is saying that what causes problems with the menu is the use of FAT32.


Commodore wrote:The SD card that I have is 128Mb, which is pretty small. I know BBC Files don't take much space, but is the Smart SPI device limited in any way, or could I put a slightly bigger card in, or a spare one from my camera (if that's all that's at hand)?

I think you can use an SD card of any capacity with SmartSPI. I think you can even have multiple different BEEB.MMB files on the same card, but I don't know the details of how to do that. I've never used SmartSPI myself.

:idea:

Ah, OK. Makes sense, I think. I didn't actually choose FAT, I just right clicked the disk from the directory and then clicked Format. I think it just did it after that, so lucky it was FAT. Maybe it chose FAT because it had previously been formatted that way.

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Re: My First BBC

Postby Commodore » Mon Oct 09, 2017 3:32 pm

I may have some BBC time tomorrow, with a little luck.

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Re: My First BBC

Postby duikkie » Mon Oct 09, 2017 5:03 pm

why do you think it is called SMART #-o , :)

it has no limit in card bytes up to xxx gb
it has no limit of pblines all other roms use only pb0,pb1 with smart you can use others
there is a limit of 511 files called beebxxx.mmb
so 512*511 disks can be stored on 1 sd card
you can use inoutmen file for reading/writing direct from bbc memory &2000--&6000 : mostly for rom uploading and downloading , but any file from pc can be transfered to bbc memory ( dput/dget)

it checks fat,fat32 maybe more.

or you can wait for USER rom , which can load every ssd file direct in bbc from sdcard dos/window directorie

or use SMART-usb, maybe if i have time left i rewrite the well know *menu


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