Baildon Electronics IDE Interfaces - Replication

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daveejhitchins
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Baildon Electronics IDE Interfaces - Replication

Postby daveejhitchins » Tue Apr 26, 2016 12:35 pm

A new thread to map the progress of replication* of all the IDE Interfaces designed by Baildon Electronics or Dave Prosser (partner) who continued the design of the interface for other companies.

There are three categories of interface (1) Internal short card. (2) Internal full card (3) Internal A3000.
#s 2 & 3 were available with mounted 2.5" hard drives and had connector for external drives.

Version numbers that I'm aware of are:
Internal short card:
V5A
V6 >> Upgrade of V5A to introduce SMT and add a second 40 way connector.
V6B >> Upgrade of V6 to include a drive activity LED (the LED connector doesn't seen to have been populated, however!)
V6C >> Upgrade of V6B to a Flash memory part, replacing the standard EPROM.

Internal full card:
V2

Internal A3000:
V6B

If anyone has further information on version numbers, please let me know.

* Although I'll be, mainly, replicating, these models I will be adding suitable connectors for CF interfaces.

Dave H :D
Last edited by daveejhitchins on Mon Sep 12, 2016 9:59 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Baildon Electronics IDE Interfaces - Replication

Postby JonC » Tue Apr 26, 2016 2:29 pm

daveejhitchins wrote:A new thread to map the progress of replication* of all the IDE Interfaces designed by Baildon Electronics or Dave Prosser (partner) who continued the design of the interface for other companies.

There are three categories of interface (1) Internal short card. (2) Internal full card (3) Internal A3000.
#s 2 & 3 were available with mounted 2.5" hard drives and had connector for external drives.

Version numbers that I'm aware of are:
Internal short card:
V5A
V6C
Internal full card:
V2
Internal A3000:
V6B

If anyone has further information on version numbers, please let me know.

* Although I'll be, mainly, replicating, these models I will be adding suitable connectors for CF interfaces.

Dave H :D



Superb! :D :shock:

These will be very popular I bet! =D>

WRT Adaptors, this may be suitable for mounting in 3.5" drive bays
And this (minus the PC plate) for mounting to Podule backplates.

You could even 3d print a 3.5" mount for the first and Podule backplate for the second! [-o<
Jon
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Re: Baildon Electronics IDE Interfaces - Replication

Postby daveejhitchins » Tue Apr 26, 2016 3:06 pm

Here are some IDE Interface schematics that I've recovered from my files:
Acorn A300-A400 IDE Interface (External) 1.jpg

Acorn A300-A400-A500 IDE Interface.jpg

Internal A3000 IDE Interface.jpg

Internal A3000 IDE Interface 4.jpg


Note: These will will need checking against actual hardware, as I've no idea if they are 'latest' versions.

Dave H :D

High quality PDFs:

IDE Interface Schematics.zip
(1.85 MiB) Downloaded 55 times
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Re: Baildon Electronics IDE Interfaces - Replication

Postby danielj » Tue Apr 26, 2016 5:59 pm

:D - do you have the contents of the PAL and the contents of the ROM? (I'm assuming you do!)

d.

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Re: Baildon Electronics IDE Interfaces - Replication

Postby daveejhitchins » Tue Apr 26, 2016 6:55 pm

danielj wrote::D - do you have the contents of the PAL and the contents of the ROM? (I'm assuming you do!)
Unfortunately not! I'm going to have to 'pull' and read them . . . Assuming there're not protected!!

@JonC . . . Yes, I was thinking along those lines.

Dave H :D
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Re: Baildon Electronics IDE Interfaces - Replication

Postby Zarchos » Wed Apr 27, 2016 6:20 am

In case you make everything available, what will be the policy as far as reproduction rights are concerned ?

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Re: Baildon Electronics IDE Interfaces - Replication

Postby daveejhitchins » Wed Apr 27, 2016 7:54 am

Zarchos wrote:In case you make everything available, what will be the policy as far as reproduction rights are concerned ?
For all Baildon Electronics products e.g. if the PCB has (c) BE, (c) B.E. or (c) Baildon Electronics then I'll be reproducing and making them available to all. 'IF' I can find/obtain the firmware source code, that too will be made available to all, including the right to modify and distribute, however, NOT for the purpose of profit.

Any PCBs that DON'T have the above (c) symbols e.g. probably the later versions that were sold by APDL and are now held hostage :roll: However, I haven't seen one of these boards so I'm not sure who has the (c). I will still want to reverse engineer these boards but . . .

I will make all design files available, here on the forum, so that they'll be available to all for as long as they are needed.

Dave H :D

p.s. This is my hobby . . . I don't need to make money anymore - in fact I think I get poorer every time I sell something :lol: And, after all, the (c), technology and products are old, like me, now!
Parts: UM6502CE, GAL22V10D, GAL16V8D, AS6C62256A, TC514400AZ, WD1772, R6522, TMS27C512, AT28C256
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Re: Baildon Electronics IDE Interfaces - Replication

Postby Zarchos » Wed Apr 27, 2016 8:41 am

daveejhitchins wrote:
Zarchos wrote:In case you make everything available, what will be the policy as far as reproduction rights are concerned ?
For all Baildon Electronics products e.g. if the PCB has (c) BE, (c) B.E. or (c) Baildon Electronics then I'll be reproducing and making them available to all. 'IF' I can find/obtain the firmware source code, that too will be made available to all, including the right to modify and distribute, however, NOT for the purpose of profit.

Any PCBs that DON'T have the above (c) symbols e.g. probably the later versions that were sold by APDL and are now held hostage :roll: However, I haven't seen one of these boards so I'm not sure who has the (c). I will still want to reverse engineer these boards but . . .

I will make all design files available, here on the forum, so that they'll be available to all for as long as they are needed.

Dave H :D

p.s. This is my hobby . . . I don't need to make money anymore - in fact I think I get poorer every time I sell something :lol: And, after all, the (c), technology and products are old, like me, now!



What if I decide to produce batch of these (the idea is that it'll help promote usage of the Archimedes in the retro scene) but would like anyway to earn 20 or 25 GBP per board for my time and efforts (including guarantee, and the seller would be a company, so paying taxes etc) ?
If it stays as a DIY project with a non-profit policy, not many will benefit from it, only the hobbyist, I'm afraid.(Readers : I don't say I'm right, I say it's what I fear, let's discuss that but no patronising lecturers, thanks.).

Why not take example on the Spectrum DIVide ?
It's free for anybody to build, and thanks to competition prices are kept low, and there are many variants.
For sure the market for the Archie isn't as big as the Speccy's, but you get the idea.

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Re: Baildon Electronics IDE Interfaces - Replication

Postby daveejhitchins » Wed Apr 27, 2016 9:44 am

Zarchos wrote:What if I decide to produce batch of these (the idea is that it'll help promote usage of the Archimedes in the retro scene) but would like anyway to earn 20 or 25 GBP per board for my time and efforts (including guarantee, and the seller would be a company, so paying taxes etc) ?
If it stays as a DIY project with a non-profit policy, not many will benefit from it, only the hobbyist, I'm afraid.(Readers : I don't say I'm right, I say it's what I fear, let's discuss that but no patronising lecturers, thanks.).

Why not take example on the Spectrum DIVide ?
It's free for anybody to build, and thanks to competition prices are kept low, and there are many variants.
For sure the market for the Archie isn't as big as the Speccy's, but you get the idea.


Well, you could, if there were NO profit involved. But you'll be in competition with myself, e.g. virtually cost price with a guarantee for life (component cost and P&P, only, after twelve months) . . . My price, probably, wouldn't even be as high as £20!!!

Dave H :D
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Re: Baildon Electronics IDE Interfaces - Replication

Postby Zarchos » Wed Apr 27, 2016 10:27 am

daveejhitchins wrote:
Zarchos wrote:What if I decide to produce batch of these (the idea is that it'll help promote usage of the Archimedes in the retro scene) but would like anyway to earn 20 or 25 GBP per board for my time and efforts (including guarantee, and the seller would be a company, so paying taxes etc) ?
If it stays as a DIY project with a non-profit policy, not many will benefit from it, only the hobbyist, I'm afraid.(Readers : I don't say I'm right, I say it's what I fear, let's discuss that but no patronising lecturers, thanks.).

Why not take example on the Spectrum DIVide ?
It's free for anybody to build, and thanks to competition prices are kept low, and there are many variants.
For sure the market for the Archie isn't as big as the Speccy's, but you get the idea.


Well, you could, if there were NO profit involved. But you'll be in competition with myself, e.g. virtually cost price with a guarantee for life (component cost and P&P, only, after twelve months) . . . My price, probably, wouldn't even be as high as £20!!!

Dave H :D


Ahhh ok then it's perfect : I had not at all understood you were going to manufacture them / have them manufactured.
Issue solved then, the community will have IDE expansions again, it's all that matters.
Thanks Dave ! It's a VERY big step forward.

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Re: Baildon Electronics IDE Interfaces - Replication

Postby JonC » Wed Apr 27, 2016 11:06 am

Party at Dave's house! :lol:
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Re: Baildon Electronics IDE Interfaces - Replication

Postby daveejhitchins » Wed Apr 27, 2016 11:15 am

Zarchos wrote:Ahhh ok then it's perfect : I had not at all understood you were going to manufacture them / have them manufactured.
Issue solved then, the community will have IDE expansions again, it's all that matters.
Thanks Dave ! It's a VERY big step forward.
:mrgreen:

Dave H :D
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Re: Baildon Electronics IDE Interfaces - Replication

Postby steve3000 » Wed Apr 27, 2016 4:44 pm

This is great news! :D :D :D

As far as testing/compatibility goes, the BE ARCIN IDE interface I have seems to work with all Sd -> ide adaptors I've tried, including the more recent ones which don't work with Acorn's IDE interface. I've tried my BE interface successfully in an A5000 too, so this would also be a solution to use recent SD adaptors in later RO3.1 machines... :D

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Re: Baildon Electronics IDE Interfaces - Replication

Postby 1024MAK » Wed Apr 27, 2016 5:12 pm

steve3000 wrote:This is great news! :D :D :D

As far as testing/compatibility goes, the BE ARCIN IDE interface I have seems to work with all Sd -> ide adaptors I've tried, including the more recent ones which don't work with Acorn's IDE interface. I've tried my BE interface successfully in an A5000 too, so this would also be a solution to use recent SD adaptors in later RO3.1 machines... :D

Agreed, it would be good if these could be made again.

Now, where is that like button? :mrgreen:

Mark
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Re: Baildon Electronics IDE Interfaces - Replication

Postby daveejhitchins » Wed Apr 27, 2016 6:21 pm

steve3000 wrote:the BE ARCIN IDE interface I have seems to work with all Sd -> ide adaptors I've tried
Steve, which version of PCB and firmware do you have?

Thanks - Dave H :D
Parts: UM6502CE, GAL22V10D, GAL16V8D, AS6C62256A, TC514400AZ, WD1772, R6522, TMS27C512, AT28C256
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Re: Baildon Electronics IDE Interfaces - Replication

Postby paulv » Wed Apr 27, 2016 8:44 pm

daveejhitchins wrote:Version numbers that I'm aware of are:
Internal short card:
V5A
V6C
Internal full card:
V2
Internal A3000:
V6B


I have a ROM on a full length card marked

Code: Select all

(c)1992 ICS Ltd
1V2/3 2V03


How does that fit into the naming/numbering scheme you used?

Paul

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Re: Baildon Electronics IDE Interfaces - Replication

Postby steve3000 » Wed Apr 27, 2016 9:02 pm

daveejhitchins wrote:Steve, which version of PCB and firmware do you have?

Thanks - Dave H :D

I've just sent you a PM, it's actually the one I bought from you 3 years ago. V5a.

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Re: Baildon Electronics IDE Interfaces - Replication

Postby daveejhitchins » Thu Apr 28, 2016 7:19 am

@paulv: Thanks Paul . . . I believe the Firmware numbering relates to the IDE and CD support - Seemingly, always kept separate.

@steve3000: Ah! Yes, I remember now. I modified it to take the larger EPROM. I had to remove the ROM skt to isolate pin 1 then connected it to A14.

I seem to remember seeing a note book, in my recovered haul, that listed PCB versions and related firmware versions . . . I need to keep an eye out for that.

Dave H :D
Parts: UM6502CE, GAL22V10D, GAL16V8D, AS6C62256A, TC514400AZ, WD1772, R6522, TMS27C512, AT28C256
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Re: Baildon Electronics IDE Interfaces - Replication

Postby Zarchos » Thu Apr 28, 2016 7:53 am

daveejhitchins wrote:@paulv: Thanks Paul . . . I believe the Firmware numbering relates to the IDE and CD support - Seemingly, always kept separate.

@steve3000: Ah! Yes, I remember now. I modified it to take the larger EPROM. I had to remove the ROM skt to isolate pin 1 then connected it to A14.

I seem to remember seeing a note book, in my recovered haul, that listed PCB versions and related firmware versions . . . I need to keep an eye out for that.

Dave H :D


Does your expansion handle removable media like Iomega ZIP 100 and ZIP 250 ?

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Re: Baildon Electronics IDE Interfaces - Replication

Postby daveejhitchins » Thu Apr 28, 2016 8:26 am

Zarchos wrote:Does your expansion handle removable media like Iomega ZIP 100 and ZIP 250 ?
Sorry, absolutely no idea! The reason for this total lack on knowledge is that I left the business in 1994. The following years saw Dave Prosser adding considerably to the features of the IDE interface. Maybe some other forum member can answer this question?

Of course, if I obtain the source code for any interface, it will be possible to add it. There are a few Forum members who have indicated they'd like to "maintain' any such find.

Dave H :D
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Re: Baildon Electronics IDE Interfaces - Replication

Postby mikecad » Mon May 02, 2016 2:17 pm

My dream is to have an 8 bit IDE/Ethernet podule. Although I have an internal IDE and an external ethernet, they won't last forever. This is a huge step indeed.

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Re: Baildon Electronics IDE Interfaces - Replication

Postby Trapper » Mon Jul 18, 2016 5:15 pm

Any updates on this project?

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Re: Baildon Electronics IDE Interfaces - Replication

Postby daveejhitchins » Mon Jul 18, 2016 6:52 pm

I've started the reverse engineering, comparing what I find with the schematics I posted above. However, Summer, building sheds and new workshop do tend to gobble up the time . . . Now Mrs H seems to want to go on holiday :? Seemingly, it's that time of year :shock:

Dave H :D
Parts: UM6502CE, GAL22V10D, GAL16V8D, AS6C62256A, TC514400AZ, WD1772, R6522, TMS27C512, AT28C256
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Re: Baildon Electronics IDE Interfaces - Replication

Postby daveejhitchins » Thu Aug 25, 2016 10:00 am

With leg elevated I've managed to get some work done on this project . . . One thing that stands out, so far, is that the addressing to the on board 29F010 has LA6 going to A16 and LA12 going to A4! I'm not sure if this is an "easy wiring" option or an attempt to stop people removing the ROM to copy it? It matters not a jot to its operation, of course, however, I'll correct this on the remake.

Dave H :D

Edit: The Data lines to the 29F010 are also scrambled - so it looks like it's "the easy layout" option. Which means that these interfaces were programmed during test.

One piece of good news is that I've had a reply from Dave Prosser. As well as the PLD equations, for the ARCIN V6C board there is also some information for the Omega - I'll start a new thread for that. He is also continuing to "look" for any further information :D Oh! It seems that I may have the PCAD files for this board . . . Need to have a good search for them ASAP

Included in the letter is information about the (c) of the IDE source (which Dave is trying to locate) - a quote from the letter:
I have no idea what changes, if any, that APDL made to the IDE system. I gave Dave Holden a copy of the IDE source code, and permission to make changes to that source code for support purposes, and to apply his own branding for sales purposes. However, I did not give or sell him any rights in the copyright to the original designs.

There's a similar quote regarding Micro Digital.
Last edited by daveejhitchins on Thu Aug 25, 2016 4:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Parts: UM6502CE, GAL22V10D, GAL16V8D, AS6C62256A, TC514400AZ, WD1772, R6522, TMS27C512, AT28C256
Products: ARA II, ABR, ATI, AP6, MGC, AP5 . . .
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Re: Baildon Electronics IDE Interfaces - Replication

Postby daveejhitchins » Thu Aug 25, 2016 4:00 pm

See Edit, above . . .

Dave H :D
Parts: UM6502CE, GAL22V10D, GAL16V8D, AS6C62256A, TC514400AZ, WD1772, R6522, TMS27C512, AT28C256
Products: ARA II, ABR, ATI, AP6, MGC, AP5 . . .
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Re: Baildon Electronics IDE Interfaces - Replication

Postby daveejhitchins » Sat Aug 27, 2016 11:08 am

On checking the IDE schematic, I have, against the Service Manual (300/400/500 series) My drawing 'varies' a little. I'd like to double check that all signals used have the correct name, however, I'm struggling for consistency . . . Is there a definitive document detailing the Archimedes Expansion Connector in detail?

Thanks - Dave H :D
Parts: UM6502CE, GAL22V10D, GAL16V8D, AS6C62256A, TC514400AZ, WD1772, R6522, TMS27C512, AT28C256
Products: ARA II, ABR, ATI, AP6, MGC, AP5 . . .
For a price list, contact me at: Retro Hardware AT dave ej hitchins DOT plus DOT com

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Re: Baildon Electronics IDE Interfaces - Replication

Postby hubersn » Sat Aug 27, 2016 12:45 pm

I think the official Acorn doc is what should be considered "definitive":

http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~theo ... xpspec.pdf

Contains everything related to standard podule (but no info on the coprocessor interface), mini podule and the DEBI/EASI extensions.

Have fun
hubersn

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Re: Baildon Electronics IDE Interfaces - Replication

Postby daveejhitchins » Sat Aug 27, 2016 1:55 pm

hubersn wrote:http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~theom/riscos/docs/expspec.pdf
Many thanks . . .

Dave H :D
Parts: UM6502CE, GAL22V10D, GAL16V8D, AS6C62256A, TC514400AZ, WD1772, R6522, TMS27C512, AT28C256
Products: ARA II, ABR, ATI, AP6, MGC, AP5 . . .
For a price list, contact me at: Retro Hardware AT dave ej hitchins DOT plus DOT com

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Re: Baildon Electronics IDE Interfaces - Replication

Postby danielj » Sat Aug 27, 2016 4:02 pm

daveejhitchins wrote:
I have no idea what changes, if any, that APDL made to the IDE system. I gave Dave Holden a copy of the IDE source code, and permission to make changes to that source code for support purposes, and to apply his own branding for sales purposes. However, I did not give or sell him any rights in the copyright to the original designs.

There's a similar quote regarding Micro Digital.


Brilliant - have you let Chris Evans know? :D

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Re: Baildon Electronics IDE Interfaces - Replication

Postby hubersn » Sat Aug 27, 2016 4:47 pm

daveejhitchins wrote:
hubersn wrote:http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~theom/riscos/docs/expspec.pdf
Many thanks . . .


I have some hardware waiting for a low-cost IDE solution...A310, A3000, A5000 and several Risc PCs.

Hurry up :D

hubersn


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