Electron Power Supply

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sixxdog_uk
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Electron Power Supply

Postby sixxdog_uk » Sun Mar 06, 2016 7:29 pm

Hi All,

I have an Elk with a iffy (Ok more than iffy there is smoke) , PSU block.

Any of you kind chaps have a spare you would like to donate or sell?

PM me if you do.

Cheers.

Alex (Sixxdog_UK)

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danielj
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Re: Electron Power Supply

Postby danielj » Sun Mar 06, 2016 7:48 pm

Wall wart or internal board?

d.

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1024MAK
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Re: Electron Power Supply

Postby 1024MAK » Sun Mar 06, 2016 7:50 pm

Smoke colour?

Mark
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danielj
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Re: Electron Power Supply

Postby danielj » Sun Mar 06, 2016 7:51 pm

Really hope it wasn't purple...

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1024MAK
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Re: Electron Power Supply

Postby 1024MAK » Sun Mar 06, 2016 7:54 pm

Have you arranged for the use of BeebMaster's Fire tender?

Mark

P.S. for everything Elk, Dave H :D is your man. For anything Dave does not have, cannot help with, Mark / RetroClinic is the Acorn service guy :D I have traded with both. Both are very helpful.
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1024MAK
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Re: Electron Power Supply

Postby 1024MAK » Sun Mar 06, 2016 7:58 pm

I suppose I should say, if it is not smoke, but is intermittent operation, a very common fault with the Elks and their plug top PSUs is either a faulty cable, or dry solder joints on the low voltage DC power connector on the Elk.

I think I have had to replace or repair the cable on about 66% of my ELK plug top PSUs.

Shout out if this sounds like the problem you have.

Mark
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Re: Electron Power Supply

Postby CMcDougall » Sun Mar 06, 2016 8:06 pm

Must be internal board, as the massive plug just dies, no smoke.
IF massive plug, I just use a 12v DC 2.5 amp broadband hub adaptor, as per Retro clinic has said, and can confirm is fine on own or with lots of stuff on the plus1. Not tried with boring Plus3
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sixxdog_uk
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Re: Electron Power Supply

Postby sixxdog_uk » Sun Mar 06, 2016 8:07 pm

Hi ,

I guess you would call it a 'wall wart' . ??

The smoke came from the main PSU wall block so AFAIK the main machine is ok.

Not sure of the smoke colour , I wasn't there to witness the spectacle. Intrigued as to why you hope it wasn't purple? :?:

I've just been a fortunate benefactor of a 'Broken' Acorn Electron , but i put money on it still being ok with a decent PSU.

Ive not even got it here to look at or i'd try and find a suitable PSU in my pile of old tat.

Anyone know the polarity of the plug and the voltage / amps I'm looking for ?

Thanks for the advice and replies , will keep you posted.

Cheers.

Alex
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Elk with a smoking habit.jpg
Acorn Electron & PSU

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sixxdog_uk
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Re: Electron Power Supply

Postby sixxdog_uk » Sun Mar 06, 2016 8:08 pm

CMcDougall wrote:Must be internal board, as the massive plug just dies, no smoke.
IF massive plug, I just use a 12v DC 2.5 amp broadband hub adaptor, as per Retro clinic has said, and can confirm is fine on own or with lots of stuff on the plus1. Not tried with boring Plus3



Ahh thanks 12v DC 2.5 :)

Yep apparently this let go in style.
Wasn't there to see it thought , so may be an exaggeration on the former owners part.

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sixxdog_uk
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Re: Electron Power Supply

Postby sixxdog_uk » Sun Mar 06, 2016 8:10 pm

1024MAK wrote:I suppose I should say, if it is not smoke, but is intermittent operation, a very common fault with the Elks and their plug top PSUs is either a faulty cable, or dry solder joints on the low voltage DC power connector on the Elk.

I think I have had to replace or repair the cable on about 66% of my ELK plug top PSUs.

Shout out if this sounds like the problem you have.

Mark



Will do mate , hope to pick it up tomorrow , so can investigate more then . :)

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danielj
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Re: Electron Power Supply

Postby danielj » Sun Mar 06, 2016 8:14 pm

The purple was just being silly. As Colin says, if it's the wall adapter, you can just use something that throws out 12-21V DC, it should be fine (e.g. old laptop adapter).

d.

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sixxdog_uk
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Re: Electron Power Supply

Postby sixxdog_uk » Sun Mar 06, 2016 8:18 pm

danielj wrote:The purple was just being silly. As Colin says, if it's the wall adapter, you can just use something that throws out 12-21V DC, it should be fine (e.g. old laptop adapter).

d.



Nice one , will do that and see how we go.

I wondered if the 'purple' smoke was a sign of something terrible about to happen like fire and melting power brick. :P

I'm half expecting to see a break in the cable or something else that caused a bit of an arc.

But even if its more than that , as you say an old laptop power brick would work well , i just expected the amps to be higher than 2.5 considering the PLUS3 used to gets its power from the Elk (or did it now , i can't remember) , hmmmm google is my friend :)

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sixxdog_uk
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Re: Electron Power Supply

Postby sixxdog_uk » Sun Mar 06, 2016 8:23 pm

sixxdog_uk wrote:
danielj wrote:The purple was just being silly. As Colin says, if it's the wall adapter, you can just use something that throws out 12-21V DC, it should be fine (e.g. old laptop adapter).

d.



Nice one , will do that and see how we go.

I wondered if the 'purple' smoke was a sign of something terrible about to happen like fire and melting power brick. :P

I'm half expecting to see a break in the cable or something else that caused a bit of an arc.

But even if its more than that , as you say an old laptop power brick would work well , i just expected the amps to be higher than 2.5 considering the PLUS3 used to gets its power from the Elk (or did it now , i can't remember) , hmmmm google is my friend :)


No , no it didn't :) lol separate psu for the plus 3

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Re: Electron Power Supply

Postby poink » Sun Mar 06, 2016 8:28 pm

sixxdog_uk wrote:Ahh thanks 12v DC 2.5 :)

This isn't the actual specification for the Elk PSU (which IIRC is just a transformer) ; which is 19V AC at just under an amp (judging from this auction). However, it's the specifications of a power supply that a) apparently works and b) is fairly convenient to get hold of.

There's a lot of power supplies that could work - it's definitely worth a rummage if you've got a drawer of power supplies. If you can find something with the right size connector, say, between 12-18V and at least an amp (preferably more, especially with addons) whether it's AC or DC, there's a good chance it'll work. (DC-wise, it doesn't matter if it's regulated or unregulated, centre positive or negative).

Amperage-wise the Elk's internal power circuitry maxes out at about 1.6A total according to the service manual.
Last edited by poink on Sun Mar 06, 2016 8:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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sixxdog_uk
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Re: Electron Power Supply

Postby sixxdog_uk » Sun Mar 06, 2016 8:30 pm

poink wrote:
sixxdog_uk wrote:Ahh thanks 12v DC 2.5 :)

This isn't the actual specification for the Elk PSU (which IIRC is just a transformer) ; which is 19V AC at just under an amp (judging from this auction). However, it's the specifications of a power supply that a) apparently works and b) is fairly convenient to get hold of.

There's a lot of power supplies that could work - it's definitely worth a rummage if you've got a drawer of power supplies. If you can find something with the right size connector, say, between 12-18V and at least an amp (preferably more, especially with addons) whether it's AC or DC, there's a good chance it'll work. (DC-wise, it doesn't matter if it's regulated or unregulated, centre positive or negative).



Great stuff , thanks the advice.

Much Appreciated

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Re: Electron Power Supply

Postby CMcDougall » Sun Mar 06, 2016 8:37 pm

sixxdog_uk wrote:Anyone know the polarity of the plug and the voltage / amps I'm looking for

just the usual, inside/middle is +, and outside is -neg, unless it's Irish.......
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danielj
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Re: Electron Power Supply

Postby danielj » Sun Mar 06, 2016 9:07 pm

Although polarity doesn't matter as it's expecting AC. It'll just rectify it the right way round....

d.

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Re: Electron Power Supply

Postby poink » Sun Mar 06, 2016 9:25 pm

CMcDougall wrote:
sixxdog_uk wrote:Anyone know the polarity of the plug and the voltage / amps I'm looking for

just the usual, inside/middle is +, and outside is -neg

It doesn't matter, the Electron was designed to use AC; so it does the necessary rectification internally (although, one should beware a somewhat common modification...)

Both polarities are pretty common; off the top of my head, centre-negative is used by the ZX Spectrum and guitar pedals.

CMcDougall wrote:unless it's Irish

[-X

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1024MAK
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Re: Electron Power Supply

Postby 1024MAK » Mon Mar 07, 2016 1:14 am

There is NO standard for the polarity of 5.5mm/2.1mm or 5.5mm/2.5mm low voltage power connectors of the "barrel" type.
They can be either polarity.

However, for devices used in cars, vans and trucks, the negative on the outside is more common.

The Elk, of course, as others have said, does not care. The size used is 5.5mm/2.1mm. 5.5mm/2.5mm will fit, but may give an intermittent contact.

And yes, the wall-wart / plug top PSU is just a 240V to 19V AC transformer. I posted a picture somewhere on the forum. Ah! It's in this thread :mrgreen:

This may do http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/1A-1000MA-18V-AC-AC-OUTPUT-MAINS-POWER-ADAPTOR-SUPPLY-CHARGER-TRANSFORMER-/121769876873

Mark
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Re: Electron Power Supply

Postby daveejhitchins » Mon Mar 07, 2016 9:11 am

Might be worth getting hold of a few of those for others that have PSU problems. I reckon any smoke was caused by broken twisted wires shorting - I'm not sure if these transformers have thermal fuses in them - I do have some thermal fuses, however, it depends how they are fitted and the style of core they've used e.g. secondary over primary or side by side style.

I've still to see or hear of a none working Electron switcher . . .

Dave H :D
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1024MAK
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Re: Electron Power Supply

Postby 1024MAK » Tue Mar 08, 2016 12:57 am

Sinclair ZX Spectrum "9V" DC power supplies have thermal fuses, so I would expect these to also have a thermal fuse. However, it may be under the insulation of the winding and so well hidden (also making it a pain, i.e. not practical to replace).

Mark
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Re: Electron Power Supply

Postby CMcDougall » Tue Mar 08, 2016 5:19 pm

^yip, hence why I have 4 on the naughty step :lol:
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MartinB
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Re: Electron Power Supply

Postby MartinB » Tue Mar 08, 2016 6:46 pm

As I said the last time this was discussed, keep an eye on car boot sales etc. for one of the below. Perfect for Elks right up to fully expanded and unlike the Acorn high-power original, runs silently and cool.... =D>

Elk big PSU 1.png

Elk big PSU 2.png

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sixxdog_uk
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Re: Electron Power Supply

Postby sixxdog_uk » Tue Mar 08, 2016 9:21 pm

daveejhitchins wrote:
Might be worth getting hold of a few of those for others that have PSU problems. I reckon any smoke was caused by broken twisted wires shorting - I'm not sure if these transformers have thermal fuses in them - I do have some thermal fuses, however, it depends how they are fitted and the style of core they've used e.g. secondary over primary or side by side style.

I've still to see or hear of a none working Electron switcher . . .

Dave H :D



Nice one Dave :D

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sixxdog_uk
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Re: Electron Power Supply

Postby sixxdog_uk » Tue Mar 08, 2016 11:59 pm

Turns out the supply wasn't the problem , I had only half the information , turns out there was no power to the board.

PSU was fine.

No idea where the smoke came into it , unless something arced inside , but no sign.

But I did find THIS!

Spot the problem

You have 5 seconds :-)
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paulv
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Re: Electron Power Supply

Postby paulv » Wed Mar 09, 2016 12:03 am

power connector from the PSU to the main board is disconnected...

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1024MAK
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Re: Electron Power Supply

Postby 1024MAK » Wed Mar 09, 2016 12:19 am

That, there is known as a OCD fault :lol:

Mark
























Open Circit & Disconnected :roll:

I myself have gone to all the trouble of closing up a case of an electrical item, then switching on to test it and ... NOTHING! :shock: :?
Then when opened up again, staring me in the eye is a plug/socket that got left unconnected #-o

So plug it in and try it :wink:. You never know, it may work :P
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Re: Electron Power Supply

Postby daveejhitchins » Wed Mar 09, 2016 10:49 pm

1024MAK wrote:I myself have gone to all the trouble of closing up a case of an electrical item, then switching on to test it and ... NOTHING! :shock: :?
Then when opened up again, staring me in the eye is a plug/socket that got left unconnected #-o
Oooo! Not don't done that, yet . . . :^o :roll:

Dave H :D
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sixxdog_uk
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Re: Electron Power Supply

Postby sixxdog_uk » Thu Mar 10, 2016 9:22 pm

paulv wrote:power connector from the PSU to the main board is disconnected...




Correct :)

Weird or What?

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RetroMike
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Re: Electron Power Supply

Postby RetroMike » Sat Apr 09, 2016 2:38 pm

Dredging this one back up again again, but am I correct in the inference that the Elk can accept an 18v DC supply as well as AC? Someone made a comment about it rectifying it. I have a couple of old laptop PSUs knocking about, which I think are DC out, and could do without the expense of a new PSU off eBay (about £15) or the components, once I've found a suitable transformer of course. :)
Not quite all there...


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