Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

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fordp
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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Postby fordp » Tue Sep 20, 2016 10:04 am

FordP (Simon Ellwood)
Time is an illusion. Lunchtime, doubly so!

dominicbeesley
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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Postby dominicbeesley » Tue Sep 20, 2016 2:48 pm

Thankyou, it arrived this morning, so far not had much of a chance to play with it.

D

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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Postby dominicbeesley » Tue Sep 20, 2016 2:55 pm

Another question - the dip switches don't give the same options as those listed on GitHub (I guess due to it being a different build) is there a list of which copros are on the shipped board and what software in each?

Thanks

D

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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Postby dominicbeesley » Tue Sep 20, 2016 3:31 pm

Sorry, I've now found the wiki - hopefully that will stop me asking any more stupid questions for a while...

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hoglet
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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Postby hoglet » Tue Sep 20, 2016 8:05 pm

Hi Jason,
flynnjs wrote:LX9CoProCombined_20160228_1555_dmb.zip wouldn't work for any of my boards.

I would love to get to the bottom of what's going on here.

I've just re-programmed my December 2015 board (Green PCB) with the LX9CoProCombined_20160228_1555_dmb firmware (re-downloaded from the forum) and it seems to work just fine.

Are there any differences of note with the latest batch of boards?

Were any of the Co Pro designs able to boot?

Was the BIST design able to run?

The changes between LX9CoProCombined_20151215_1004_dmb and LX9CoProCombined_20160228_1555_dmb are:
- added the SPI Co Pro
- added the ARM2 Co Pro
- added the 32016 Co Pro
- merged the Null and SPI Co Pros into a single design
- made a tube improvement to reduce flag latency from the parasite side
- updated the design numbering (used by *FX 151) to something more logical

None of these are configuration related, except the last item which is very minor.

Do you have any boards left to be able to reproduce this?

Dave

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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Postby dominicbeesley » Wed Sep 21, 2016 10:31 am

I can have a go at flashing this if you want me to run a test - I have a Xilinx platform cable, will that work? What do you guys use to connect, I was going to solder some pins to the pads on the back or do you guys use something less permanent?

Dom

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danielj
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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Postby danielj » Wed Sep 21, 2016 11:00 am

Xilinx platform is what you need. Jason uses pogo-pins, most just solder a set of header pins on - be careful as the pads can pop off under stress!
d.

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flynnjs
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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Postby flynnjs » Fri Sep 23, 2016 3:28 pm

Dave,
The PCBs were from the same packet as the last set of green boards as I
over-ordered to get the costs down (and have been carrying the debt since!)
and therefore are identical.

I tried more than one board and fiddled with switches and didn't get any joy.

I'll try again as I do have a couple of boards left. Maybe I messed up with
iMpact or something but I don't think I did.

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danielj
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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Postby danielj » Fri Sep 23, 2016 4:18 pm

Hmm, I've successfully put the latest firmware on the green boards for people...
d.

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daveejhitchins
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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Postby daveejhitchins » Sat Sep 24, 2016 11:42 am

danielj wrote:Xilinx platform is what you need. Jason uses pogo-pins, most just solder a set of header pins on - be careful as the pads can pop off under stress!
d.
Yes they can . . . I've repaired a few! I use epoxy on the pins, once soldered.

Dave H :D
Parts: UM6502CE, GAL22V10D, GAL16V8D, AS6C62256A, TC514400AZ, WD1772, R6522, TMS27C512, AT28C256
Products: ARA II, ABR, ATI, AP6, MGC, AP5 . . .
For a price list, contact me at: Retro Hardware AT dave ej hitchins DOT plus DOT com

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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Postby dominicbeesley » Sat Sep 24, 2016 5:33 pm

Noted. I'll see if I can find a surface mount connector and some hot melt or something a bit more reversible than araldite! or I might do my other trick of soldering some loops on and using test probes which tends to be more fiddly but less prone to tearing boards apart...will see if the missus will let me out of baby duties for half an hour...

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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Postby dominicbeesley » Mon Sep 26, 2016 9:04 pm

I've finally got round to soldering some pins on but I'm not (of course I am) a bit lost.

I've got the MCS file into Impact (I'm still using ISE 14.4) but it wants to know what version of the EPROM (from the schematics its a 25XX ?? what for XX) and then it's asking for width 1 or 4 and complaining about there being no CFI file (what is a CFI file?)

I'm surprised it went that well with my recent experiences!

D

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hoglet
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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Postby hoglet » Mon Sep 26, 2016 9:16 pm

dominicbeesley wrote:I've finally got round to soldering some pins on but I'm not (of course I am) a bit lost.

I've got the MCS file into Impact (I'm still using ISE 14.4) but it wants to know what version of the EPROM (from the schematics its a 25XX ?? what for XX) and then it's asking for width 1 or 4 and complaining about there being no CFI file (what is a CFI file?)

I'm surprised it went that well with my recent experiences!

D

If you look at the signposts thread there is a link to Using iMPACT to re-flash the co-pro

Dave

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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Postby dominicbeesley » Tue Sep 27, 2016 3:26 pm

Thanks Dave,

I don't know how I managed to miss that on my searches....

Anyway I've given it a bash and the latest zip 16/2/28 file gives a dead copro, i.e. boots straight to normal host only mode.

I reflashed back to 15/12/15 and that works so Impact is working

I thought I'd give it another try this time I flashed it with all switches up, that gave a completely dead beeb.
Then I switched all down - still dead.
The I tried switches as NULL/SPI - booted to no copro state
The I tried *FX 151,230,9 and it worked.....

After that switches worked as expected (except for the confusion caused by the dipswitches being numbered 1234 on the board the opposite way to the wiki!).

I'm not sure what conclusions to draw from this but it seems to be working ok now. My guess is that it is something to do with bad data in the bootloader thingy causing it to not fire up? (I've not had a delve in the VHDL to see how that cleverness works yet).

Hope this is useful

D

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hoglet
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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Postby hoglet » Tue Sep 27, 2016 3:45 pm

dominicbeesley wrote:I thought I'd give it another try this time I flashed it with all switches up, that gave a completely dead beeb.
Then I switched all down - still dead.
The I tried switches as NULL/SPI - booted to no copro state
The I tried *FX 151,230,9 and it worked.....

Very interesting.... And I think very relevant to the issue Jason and I are trying to track down, where he found the latest batch of boards didn't work with the latest firmware.

Lots of questions: :D

Are you suggesting the position of the DIP switches when programming made and difference? (This would be a surprise)

Did the "dead beeb" respond to a Ctrl-Break?

Was the "dead beeb" still beeping, or was it a blank screen with a flashing cursor at the top?

Was this a Master or a Model B?

When approximately did you get your matchbox board? Is it from the latest batch?

I'll have a think about this.
dominicbeesley wrote:After that switches worked as expected (except for the confusion caused by the dipswitches being numbered 1234 on the board the opposite way to the wiki!).

Could you post a photo so I can see which way the switch is mounted please?

Dave
Last edited by hoglet on Tue Sep 27, 2016 3:54 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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lazarusr
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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Postby lazarusr » Tue Sep 27, 2016 3:51 pm

Nothing very useful to add, other than to point out that my board was updated to the latest firmware in Halifax and works just fine.

If we call the first batch the Jason made available via the forum as 'Batch One', the second batch that he made available (this time through xeropage.co.uk) as 'Batch Two' and the batch that he has just shipped out (via xeropage.co.uk) in the last couple of weeks as 'Batch Three", then mine is from Batch Two.

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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Postby dominicbeesley » Tue Sep 27, 2016 4:36 pm

Hi Dave

I'm not suggesting anything really, just recording what I (think I) did. I wasn't 100% concentrating just randomly trying things whilst waiting for a big deployment to finish at work.

I've got to go out now so no time to investigate, I'm not sure if it was the position of the switches when programming that fixed things, or starting up in the NULL/SPI mode that got it working.

The dead beeb didn't respond to CTRL-BREAK
No idea if there was a beeb I had headphones on, I think there was a cursor as I remember thinking that it was in MO.7
Model B
Latest batch, received last Monday

I'll get a photo in the AM - got to go and pick the baby up from nursery now...

D

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hoglet
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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Postby hoglet » Tue Sep 27, 2016 4:53 pm

Hi Dominic,
dominicbeesley wrote:The dead beeb didn't respond to CTRL-BREAK
No idea if there was a beeb I had headphones on, I think there was a cursor as I remember thinking that it was in MO.7
Model B
Latest batch, received last Monday

Thanks for this info.
dominicbeesley wrote:I'll get a photo in the AM - got to go and pick the baby up from nursery now...

I found a photo TopBananna posted earlier:
http://www.stardot.org.uk/forums/viewto ... 20#p149640
And the DIP switches are numbered the other way from my Batch 2 board. I'm not sure if this is consistent across within a batches though.

Dave

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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Postby dominicbeesley » Tue Sep 27, 2016 6:01 pm

Yes, I think that's how mine are arranged. Will double check tomorrow, might be worth a note on the wiki page to that effect as it had me going round in circles for a while!

D

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flynnjs
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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Postby flynnjs » Tue Sep 27, 2016 7:44 pm

Yes, sorry, the switches came in a bag, loose, and I loaded them all into the
machine but had no reference of which way they were oriented on previous
batches. Being switches it's doesn't really matter as long as you use the "ON"
marking on the switch rather than "towards FPGA" or "away from FPGA" etc.

Sounds like Dom has experienced exactly the same thing. The only thing I can
think of is a slightly different silicon revision in either the Flash of the LX9
giving an initialisation timing issue. Doing this for fun, I admit I've not
followed tracking silicon batch numbers like one might have done in the office.

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hoglet
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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Postby hoglet » Wed Sep 28, 2016 8:21 am

flynnjs wrote:Sounds like Dom has experienced exactly the same thing. The only thing I can
think of is a slightly different silicon revision in either the Flash of the LX9
giving an initialisation timing issue. Doing this for fun, I admit I've not
followed tracking silicon batch numbers like one might have done in the office.

I'd love to get to the bottom of this, but at the moment I'm unable to reproduce it on either of the boards that I have (an early prototype and a batch 2).

Dave

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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Postby dominicbeesley » Wed Sep 28, 2016 11:07 am

Hi,

Where's the best place to ask / look for questions regarding the sources. For example I'm looking for the source code for the bootrom.dat (PIC?) code, trying to work out how the initial boot works

D

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hoglet
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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Postby hoglet » Wed Sep 28, 2016 11:45 am

dominicbeesley wrote:Hi,

Where's the best place to ask / look for questions regarding the sources. For example I'm looking for the source code for the bootrom.dat (PIC?) code, trying to work out how the initial boot works

D

Probably over in the development thread:
http://www.stardot.org.uk/forums/viewto ... =44&t=8852

I'll respond over there....

Dave

DarrenW
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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Postby DarrenW » Fri Oct 28, 2016 4:54 pm

Apologies everyone, I'm coming to this party rather late having only just joined up with *.

Are there any plans to produce more of these boards? I've always been keen to be able to run CP/M on my master, along with some other items.

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danielj
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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Postby danielj » Fri Oct 28, 2016 5:21 pm

I can't answer for Jason, but the Raspberry Pi el-cheapo option does a z80:
https://github.com/hoglet67/PiTubeDirect/wiki

d.

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flynnjs
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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Postby flynnjs » Sat Oct 29, 2016 7:54 am

To be viable I would need at least 5 orders.

DarrenW
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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Postby DarrenW » Sun Oct 30, 2016 7:58 pm

Thanks both, I'll definitely look at the PI option as I have one to spare.

markrwj
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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Postby markrwj » Tue Nov 01, 2016 5:53 pm

I would order 1 unit if still available.

Mark

torne
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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Postby torne » Thu Nov 03, 2016 1:03 pm

I'd be interested in ordering one as well.

bsdnazz
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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Postby bsdnazz » Mon Nov 07, 2016 11:29 pm

flynnjs wrote:To be viable I would need at least 5 orders.


I'd love to order one too.

Earlier this evening I managed to fire up my original BBC 32016 co-processor and would love to have an emulator for it. Not least so I can get all the Panos software running without clocking up undue hours on the original!


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