Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

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hoglet
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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Postby hoglet » Tue May 16, 2017 9:11 pm

synthored wrote:Can that emulate the whole range covered by the matchbox? I quite liked the idea of having a PDP11 at my fingertips once again!

Pi Tube Direct currently provides the following:
- 6502
- Z80
- 6809
- ARM1
- 80x86
- 32016
- Native ARM

What's currently missing (that the Matchbox provides) is:
- PDP11
- 68000

On the plus side, what's there is generally faster, and each of the cores has an integrated debugger (modelled on the debugger in B-Em).

More here:
https://github.com/hoglet67/PiTubeDirect/wiki

I expect that a PDP11 will be added in the next six months.

Dave
Last edited by hoglet on Tue May 16, 2017 9:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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sydney
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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Postby sydney » Tue May 16, 2017 9:12 pm

It would seem not but you do get the following:

Current Status

The PiTubeDirect firmware currently includes emulations of the following Beeb Co Processors:

65C102 (using 65tube - the fastest known native ARM 65C02 emulation)
65C102 (using lib6502 - written in C)
80x86 (using Fake86 - written in C)
ARM2 (using MAME's ARM 2/3/6 emulation - written in C)
32016 (using a 32016 emulation that started life in B-Em, and was resurrected earlier this year)
Z80
6809

RobC
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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Postby RobC » Fri May 19, 2017 5:57 pm

sydney wrote:It would seem not but you do get the following:

Current Status

The PiTubeDirect firmware currently includes emulations of the following Beeb Co Processors:

65C102 (using 65tube - the fastest known native ARM 65C02 emulation)
65C102 (using lib6502 - written in C)
80x86 (using Fake86 - written in C)
ARM2 (using MAME's ARM 2/3/6 emulation - written in C)
32016 (using a 32016 emulation that started life in B-Em, and was resurrected earlier this year)
Z80
6809

You also get the native 1GHz ARM copro on the Pi which will run BBC BASIC. Not sure whether anyone has tried running PDP11Tube on it though:
http://mdfs.net/Apps/Emulators/Tube/PDPTube

(In addition, an advantage over the matchbox is that the 32016 emulation has the FPU.)

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BigEd
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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Postby BigEd » Fri May 19, 2017 6:51 pm

I wonder if a remake of the Matchbox would be a good way forward - Jason, I think you offered to open up the designs, so it would need someone to be willing to do the buying and making, a bit of a thankless task... but if the net effect is bigger or faster, there might be a dozen takers for the feature set, as well as some takers who feel hardware beats emulation and who don't want to use a Pi. Also perhaps some completists, and some people who just want a nice FPGA dev platform.

Faster would mean bumping the FPGA speed grade from -2 to -3, for a modest bump in price, and/or swapping the RAM for a faster part, maybe 55ns or even 10ns, which doubles the RAM price. (Faster RAM might mean more stringent PCB design, which is another difficulty.)

Bigger would mean a different FPGA. Unfortunately, it looks like Xilinx don't do a bigger FPGA in quad flat pack, and a move to BGA is another difficulty in manufacture and of course a board redesign. As for size, the LX9 costs very roughly £13, the LX16 costs £18 and the LX25 costs £27. And those might even be plus VAT.

If an LX16 (60% bigger) is big enough for a 32016 with FPU and/or some cache, that might be a winner, but it's a new design and would be more expensive.

It's looking like faster might be feasible, but bigger is difficult.

Edit: looking at the various FPGA dev boards out there, Matchbox does stand out for having 32bit wide SRAM, and 5V interfacing, and reasonable cost (during its production runs).

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flynnjs
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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Postby flynnjs » Sat May 20, 2017 7:05 pm

I will post the pcb designs.

I have a new faster bigger better board coming out soon with an insane feature set at what should also be "a very reasonable price".

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BigEd
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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Postby BigEd » Sat May 20, 2017 8:21 pm

That sounds interesting!

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fordp
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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Postby fordp » Sat May 20, 2017 8:58 pm

flynnjs wrote:I will post the pcb designs.

I have a new faster bigger better board coming out soon with an insane feature set at what should also be "a very reasonable price".


Put me down for three ;)
FordP (Simon Ellwood)
Time is an illusion. Lunchtime, doubly so!

austindan
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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Postby austindan » Sat May 20, 2017 10:16 pm

Hi,
Is the matchbox Co Pro still available for purchase?
Thanks,
Dan.

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eelco
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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Postby eelco » Mon May 22, 2017 9:53 am

flynnjs wrote:I have a new faster bigger better board coming out soon with an insane feature set at what should also be "a very reasonable price".

Yes, please. Can I pre-order one?
My Acorn related files are located at:
https://acorn.huininga.nl/

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sirmorris
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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Postby sirmorris » Mon May 22, 2017 11:27 am

flynnjs wrote:I have a new faster bigger better board coming out soon with an insane feature set


Built-in ICE-T??!! [-o< please please please

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hoglet
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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Postby hoglet » Mon May 22, 2017 2:09 pm

sirmorris wrote:Built-in ICE-T??!! [-o< please please please

PiTubeDirect Cobra has that ;-)

synthored
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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Postby synthored » Tue May 23, 2017 9:44 pm

I ordered one each of the Pi Tube Direct variants in the end. Looking forward to a play when they arrive. Would definitely be interested in a next gen matchbox though!

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flynnjs
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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Postby flynnjs » Fri Jun 02, 2017 4:21 pm

I've made a few more of these available on the webshop.
These will be made to order using the remaining PCBs I have.

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BigEd
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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Postby BigEd » Fri Jun 02, 2017 4:27 pm

Great! (There's a link to the online shop in the Matchbox Signposts thread)

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flynnjs
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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Postby flynnjs » Tue Jun 06, 2017 6:19 pm

A bit surprised that people were nagging for more of these and when I
do so there is little interest.

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danielj
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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Postby danielj » Tue Jun 06, 2017 6:22 pm

I think they don't pay any attention to the board... Can always flag on Facebook group, I suspect they'll evaporate rapidly if you do that?

d.

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Elminster
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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Postby Elminster » Tue Jun 06, 2017 7:11 pm

Just waiting for my 40way ribbon cable (thought I had some but turned out to be 34 way) to arrive and then I shall have a PiTudeDirect. Reading Hoglet's post above unless I want pdp11 or 68k there is no advantage in my getting a FPGA? (Probably good if there isnt as already running low on Retro funds this month and only just got paid!).

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DutchAcorn
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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Postby DutchAcorn » Wed Jun 07, 2017 11:16 am

It would be very nice to have an adapter board so that these could be fitted internally in a Master (or has that been discussed before :? )?

Ofcourse the market for one of those would be even considerably smaller than the total of matchbox copro's sold unless it has the flexibility to also host (and power) the Pi direct solution.
Paul

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flynnjs
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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Postby flynnjs » Thu Jul 06, 2017 6:38 am

Last couple of these available on the webshop now. Once these have gone then
there won't be another batch, even hand built.

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hoglet
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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Postby hoglet » Thu Jul 06, 2017 8:11 am

flynnjs wrote:Last couple of these available on the webshop now. Once these have gone then
there won't be another batch, even hand built.

Here's a direct link to the Webshop:
http://www.xeropage.co.uk/shop/index.ph ... er=product

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jgharston
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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Postby jgharston » Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:56 pm

There's a bug in the current v0.25 PDP-11 Tube Client.

* If you run a program from disk, Soft Break re-enters it, but another Soft Break drops to the supervisor.
* If you run a program from ROM, Soft Break attempts to re-run the startup code and hangs waiting for a Startup Acknowledgement.

I'm going to have a look at this.

I've also discovered that the ROM-based *GO command on the Master jumps to an I/O address, not to a CoPro address. I thought that the whole point of the Master having a seperate *GOIO command and a *GO command was that *GOIO would always jump to an I/O address - viz the command name - and *GO would jump to a CoPro address if a CoPro was present, as per the principle of least surprise. As the PDP11 Client doesn't have a *GO command itself, you have to use a disk based */GO command to enter PDP11 code as on the Tube Utilities disk.

I've a feeling that there won't be space to fit a *GO command into the Client, the &800 bytes are almost full already.

Also, my Matchbox has a PDP-11 Tube Client that claims to be version 0.50, but it is binary identical to version 0.25 except for the version string. I'm not sure how that came about.

Code: Select all

$ bbcbasic
PDP11 BBC BASIC IV Version 0.25
(C) Copyright J.G.Harston 1989,2005-2015
>_

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hoglet
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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Postby hoglet » Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:01 pm

jgharston wrote:Also, my Matchbox has a PDP-11 Tube Client that claims to be version 0.50, but it is binary identical to version 0.25 except for the version string. I'm not sure how that came about.

It came from here I thought, where you refer to it as 0.50:
viewtopic.php?p=124931#p124931

Dave

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jgharston
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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Postby jgharston » Sat Jul 15, 2017 3:30 am

hoglet wrote:It came from here I thought, where you refer to it as 0.50:
viewtopic.php?p=124931#p124931

Wierd, I've just checked my backup disks which go Jun-2015 to Dec-2015 and in Dec-2015 the source says:
VERSION: EQU &0025
; v0.25 01-Nov-2015 JGH: Rolled over to version 0.25.
and is date stamped 18-Nov-2015, and in my most recent backup Feb-2017 it's also date stamped 18-Nov-2015, and I've been trying to keep the Client version number close to the BASIC version number, which was 0.24 back then, and became 0.26b yesterday.

Code: Select all

$ bbcbasic
PDP11 BBC BASIC IV Version 0.25
(C) Copyright J.G.Harston 1989,2005-2015
>_

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hoglet
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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Postby hoglet » Sat Jul 15, 2017 6:00 am

jgharston wrote:
hoglet wrote:It came from here I thought, where you refer to it as 0.50:
viewtopic.php?p=124931#p124931

Wierd, I've just checked my backup disks which go Jun-2015 to Dec-2015 and in Dec-2015 the source says:
VERSION: EQU &0025
; v0.25 01-Nov-2015 JGH: Rolled over to version 0.25.
and is date stamped 18-Nov-2015, and in my most recent backup Feb-2017 it's also date stamped 18-Nov-2015, and I've been trying to keep the Client version number close to the BASIC version number, which was 0.24 back then, and became 0.26b yesterday.

The copy I have was committed on 18:11 15-Nov-2015 :
https://github.com/hoglet67/CoPro6502/c ... _pdp11.vhd

This made it into the LX9CoProCombined_20151115_1858_dmb release which was very short lived and replaced by LX9CoProCombined_20151215_1004_dmb release which is what Jason shipped in the second batch of board.

Dave

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jgharston
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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Postby jgharston » Sat Jul 15, 2017 4:37 pm

Hmm. Checking my work diary, I was doing Cerco work at that time, which meant working from a hotel. I wonder if I did a cosmetic change and uploaded it from my laptop, and when I got home that never migrated to my main code on my MDFS, so the next time I did a zip-changed-files-and-upload-them from the MDFS the online copy was replaced with the unchanged v0.25.

Checking the upload dates on the site gives 19/11/2015... but there's also a file 'Client11.pro' with an upload date of 16-11-2015 (and a 'Serial11.pro') which looks I did an upload without setting the filetype correctly and the 10-character 'Client11.p' name became 'Client11.pro' - which is doubly odd as I don't have a mapping to '.pro' in my extensions file.

Code: Select all

$ bbcbasic
PDP11 BBC BASIC IV Version 0.25
(C) Copyright J.G.Harston 1989,2005-2015
>_

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jgharston
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Re: Offered: Matchbox sized 6502 / Z80 / 6809 Co Pro

Postby jgharston » Mon Jul 17, 2017 10:11 am

I think I've fixed the Soft-Break-re-entry problem in the PDP11 Client. It seems to be two different bugs interacting with each other. Test build at:
http://mdfs.net/Software/Tube/PDP11/updates.htm

As the PDP11 Client is configured as ROM I haven't been able to test it in my Matchbox, and it's difficult to test with the emulator as that doesn't use the NMI system for data transfers.

Code: Select all

$ bbcbasic
PDP11 BBC BASIC IV Version 0.25
(C) Copyright J.G.Harston 1989,2005-2015
>_


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