Topologika Adventures

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leenew
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Topologika Adventures

Postby leenew » Tue Nov 13, 2012 11:28 pm

Hi,
Just looked in the archive for the Topologika Adventures but cannot see them.
Are they missing? or am I looking in the wrong place??

Were all of the following released for the BBC B?

Acheton
Avon
Countdown to Doom
Kingdom of Hamil
Hezarin
MURDAC
Phillospher's Quest
Return to Doom
Spy Snatcher
The Last Days of Doom

I am aware Acornsoft released some of these first, but was under the impression that the Topologika re-releases were improved, or fuller versions of the games.

Thanks.
Lee.

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flibble
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Re: Topologika Adventures

Postby flibble » Wed Nov 14, 2012 10:51 am

leenew wrote:Spy Snatcher.


My understanding is that this one, at least, was Archimedes only, not BBC.

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Arcadian
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Re: Topologika Adventures

Postby Arcadian » Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:48 pm

Spy Snatcher /was/ actually written for the BBC/Electron, but not released.

It was eventually made available via the Electron User Group - more info here: http://www.acornelectron.co.uk/eug/revs ... -spys.html
For a "Complete BBC Games Archive" visit www.bbcmicro.co.uk

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leenew
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Re: Topologika Adventures

Postby leenew » Wed Nov 14, 2012 5:18 pm

Cheers Flibble & Arcadian.
Do we know of the differences between the Acornsoft releases and the Topologika releases?
And are the Topologika releases in the archive?
If they are all exactly the same then it doesn't matter, but I was of the understanding that at least *some* of the adventures were improved or extended when re-released....
Ta!

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Arcadian
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Re: Topologika Adventures

Postby Arcadian » Wed Nov 14, 2012 6:06 pm

Pretty certain all of the Topologika versions of the Acornsoft games were expanded and/or improved.

I don't think the Topologika games are available anywhere as DFS disk images, presumably due to a) rarity and b) copy protection.

Back when I was actively preserving Beeb stuff, I remember I did try dumping them (to both SSD and FDI formats) but I couldn't produce SSD images (protection) and the FDI images didn't work (in B-Em) either.
For a "Complete BBC Games Archive" visit www.bbcmicro.co.uk

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danielj
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Re: Topologika Adventures

Postby danielj » Wed Nov 14, 2012 8:42 pm

Which reminds me...

Dave E has them all here:
http://www.acornelectron.co.uk/profs/ca ... ogika.html

d.

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Arcadian
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Re: Topologika Adventures

Postby Arcadian » Wed Nov 14, 2012 8:43 pm

Ah, completely forgot about those. I should have checked my Acorn Electron World DVD! Doh!
For a "Complete BBC Games Archive" visit www.bbcmicro.co.uk

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leenew
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Re: Topologika Adventures

Postby leenew » Wed Nov 14, 2012 8:58 pm

That's great info.
I would love the BBC B versions
If anybody has the originals maybe we have the skills around here now.... :D

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Re: Topologika Adventures

Postby danielj » Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:01 pm

leenew wrote:That's great info.
I would love the BBC B versions
If anybody has the originals maybe we have the skills around here now.... :D


The Beeb versions will be the same as the elk ones AFAIK. I think it was "one disc fits all" with those releases.

d.

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Re: Topologika Adventures

Postby leenew » Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:13 pm

For all impatient adventurers wanting to play the full versions....


http://www.ifarchive.org/indexes/if-arc ... zcode.html


for the adventures in their original Phoenix mainframe format.

And...


http://code.google.com/p/garglk/downloa ... indows.exe


for a great interactive fiction reader program.. "Gargoyle".

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Re: Topologika Adventures

Postby leenew » Wed Nov 14, 2012 11:36 pm

Blimey :shock:
Just had a quick go at Countdown to Doom.
I died about 10 times in 6 different ways in the first 2 minutes!
Boy, games are really wimpy these days...... this is HARDCORE :lol:

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Re: Topologika Adventures

Postby Pernod » Thu Nov 15, 2012 11:50 am

You'll find Acheton and Return to Doom in my adventure games thread.
- Nigel

BBC Model B, ATPL Sidewise, Acorn Speech, 2xWatford Floppy Drives, AMX Mouse, Viglen case, etc.

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leenew
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Re: Topologika Adventures

Postby leenew » Thu Nov 15, 2012 1:32 pm

Aaaah! Cheers Pernod :D

tautology
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Re: Topologika Adventures

Postby tautology » Thu Nov 15, 2012 2:04 pm

As always, the Classic Adventure Solution Archive can provide you with info and solutions to the adventures:
http://www.solutionarchive.com/list/system%2C33/

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Re: Topologika Adventures

Postby leenew » Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:23 pm

Wow, That's some archive.
The trouble is... it's just too tempting to peek at the answers :D
I always liked the triumph of figuring out some of the devlish puzzles myself.
I would rather be stuck than let someone give me the answer!

My son is the opposite!
I once bought him a game. A driving game for the playstation.
Gran Turismo.
I read the blurb on the package and thought 'wow there's some real gameplay here. Do the amateur races, earn the licences, do up the cars, race in big money races, buy bigger faster cars, get to the big time....'
Well the day after, I came home to find my some with a million quid in the bank, driving the biggest fastest cars.
The big cheat had entered a code to give him all the good stuff!!
We had a discussion about it, and he could not see at all why he should have to play through all the hard races when he can get to the best fun straight away!
Well I must say he looked like he was having fun :D
More fun than me trying to figure out what to do with a pulley and a rubber chicken :lol:

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Re: Topologika Adventures

Postby Dave_E » Mon Dec 03, 2012 7:29 pm

Yeah, that Countdown to Doom felt my wrath too:

http://www.acornelectron.co.uk/eug/revs ... -coun.html

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billcarr2005
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Re: Topologika Adventures

Postby billcarr2005 » Sun Jan 13, 2013 7:26 pm

Arcadian wrote:I don't think the Topologika games are available anywhere as DFS disk images, presumably due to a) rarity and b) copy protection.

Back when I was actively preserving Beeb stuff, I remember I did try dumping them (to both SSD and FDI formats) but I couldn't produce SSD images (protection) and the FDI images didn't work (in B-Em) either.


I've successfully imaged Return to Doom via FSD and it's playable in BeebEM.
If you've still got the disks and have an UPURS cable, i can send the program over! If not, would it be possible for me, or anybody else with an UPURS cable, to image them? :)

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Re: Topologika Adventures

Postby leenew » Sun Jan 13, 2013 8:26 pm

Hi Bill,
Keep up the good work!
I am not clear on a couple of things :D
Pernod says that he has Acheton and Return to Doom in his archive, so will these be the tape versions?
I am certainly no expert on copy protection (to say the least :D ), but am I right in saying that none of the disks you are working on have ever (to our collective knowledge) been de-protected and successfully imaged in a de-protected state?
Was 80's state of the art hacking simply not up to it because it was not possible to re-create these disk conditions with home hardware??
A dummy's guide to all the why's and wherefore's would be much appreciated!
Cheers.
Lee.

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Arcadian
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Re: Topologika Adventures

Postby Arcadian » Mon Jan 14, 2013 12:55 am

@billcarr2005

If I were to look for the FDI files I originally created, are you able to try converting them to FSD?
For a "Complete BBC Games Archive" visit www.bbcmicro.co.uk

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billcarr2005
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Re: Topologika Adventures

Postby billcarr2005 » Mon Jan 14, 2013 2:33 am

@leenew
Pernod may well have the cracked disc versions in his archive.
A lot of the discs i've FSD imaged have already been de-protected by myself, and others.
Some of the discs i've imaged haven't appeared in their native, uncracked, state.
Howard Spurr said "DISK DUPLICATOR III was last upgraded to version 3.3 at the end of 1985.Since then more use has been made of the Intel 1770 series disc controllers to produce discs which cannot be cloned using the standard 8271 based DFS."
I think this may refer to Infinity, and the latter Tynesoft games with different sized sectors on the track. Also the sector sizes can be misrepresented and have deliberate CRC errors.
As long as the main loader program can read the disc, to run the program then it would be possible to save the code off and have a perfectly workable cracked version.
When i initially set out to modify Martin Barr's UPXSSD software to read "bad" tracks, i wanted a simple program which transferred what the BBC saw. Something that was easy to use and automated, which resulted in small files. It was during this process that i noticed the wide variety of methods to keep standard copiers from working and i found the different ways interesting. It also results in a plain file which can be hex edited to see each sector easily. I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel, i just wanted to see if it was possible.
Also, with the FSD image, it gives people a chance to crack the games themselves!

@Arcadian

I can certainly try! I guess it just depends on what is preventing the FDI files from working correctly in the first place. If the data is readable, then saveable, then i can piece together the sectors to make a complete disc :)

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Re: Topologika Adventures

Postby Arcadian » Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:26 pm

Right Bill, I've now dug out the Topologika FDIs from my USB Drive ... check your PMs! :)
For a "Complete BBC Games Archive" visit www.bbcmicro.co.uk

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leenew
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Re: Topologika Adventures

Postby leenew » Fri Jan 25, 2013 2:48 pm

Fingers crossed [-o<

Here is a good old advert from Topologika.
It's in PDF format, so change the extension from ZIP to PDF

Topologika_Catalogue.zip
(517.19 KiB) Downloaded 134 times


It conveniently confirms that, at least, Countdown to Doom, Kingdom of Hamil, and Philosopher's Quest were indeed expanded.
It mentions Acheton in the same breath, but I don't think this got a previous tape release??

Lee.

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Re: Topologika Adventures

Postby Pernod » Fri Jan 25, 2013 4:52 pm

leenew wrote:Pernod says that he has Acheton and Return to Doom in his archive, so will these be the tape versions?
I am certainly no expert on copy protection (to say the least :D ), but am I right in saying that none of the disks you are working on have ever (to our collective knowledge) been de-protected and successfully imaged in a de-protected state?

As far as I remember these are deprotected disc versions. I seem to remember them being difficult to copy with protection intact but relatively easy to deprotect.
- Nigel

BBC Model B, ATPL Sidewise, Acorn Speech, 2xWatford Floppy Drives, AMX Mouse, Viglen case, etc.

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leenew
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Re: Topologika Adventures

Postby leenew » Fri Jan 25, 2013 4:59 pm

Cheers Pernod,
I haven't got round to inserting your disks into my excel list yet.
Mick Brown's are taking me an age to test and catalogue :D
You don't happen to have a list of your stuff to make it easier for me to insert do you??

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billcarr2005
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Re: Topologika Adventures

Postby billcarr2005 » Tue Jan 29, 2013 1:39 am

Arcadian wrote:Right Bill, I've now dug out the Topologika FDIs from my USB Drive ... check your PMs! :)


Converted Acheton, Philosopher's Quest, Countdown to Doom and Last Days of Doom.
Return to Doom i'd already imaged from the original floppy.
Avon and MURDAC were Master compatible only :(
Didn't have an FDI for Hezarin.
Attachments
FSDBeebEM.zip
Further modified, hopefully i've not broken something else in the process!
(528.02 KiB) Downloaded 90 times
Topologika.zip
Acheton
Philosopher's Quest
Countdown to Doom
Last Days of Doom
(380.59 KiB) Downloaded 105 times

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leenew
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Re: Topologika Adventures

Postby leenew » Tue Jan 29, 2013 7:36 pm

Excellent effort =D>
Well done.

2 questions :D

1: Why do I have to load the disk, then *run !boot instead of running disk from the menu? which gives me a disk fault??

2: What needs to be done now to make these into .DSD's?

I hope these aren't too ignorant a pair of questions :lol:

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Re: Topologika Adventures

Postby billcarr2005 » Tue Jan 29, 2013 11:34 pm

leenew wrote:Excellent effort =D>
Well done.

2 questions :D

1: Why do I have to load the disk, then *run !boot instead of running disk from the menu? which gives me a disk fault??


My butchering of disc8271.cpp hasn't altered the code required for running the disk, so i think it's loading the FSD in the incorrect way! If you Load Disc 0, you should be able to SHIFT-BREAK to auto run the !boot though :)

leenew wrote:2: What needs to be done now to make these into .DSD's?


They just need to be cracked :P
It's probably fairly relatively simple, but i've been concentrating on ironing out the errors that certain disc images can expose. For example, the Topologika discs were tripping up the track selection code, choosing the logical sector &31, at physical sector &36, instead of the physical sector &31. :(
I'm sure now that enough data is transferred when the disks are imaged, it's just how to interpret the data when emulating the disk! :?

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leenew
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Re: Topologika Adventures

Postby leenew » Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:15 pm

Anyone up for the challenge of cracking these? :D would love to see them in the 'normal' archive. And if anyone has a source for kingdom of Hamil and the other Doom game from Topologika, that would be spiffing :D

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danielj
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Re: Topologika Adventures

Postby danielj » Thu Jan 31, 2013 12:51 pm

BTW, as part of my kryoflux meanderings I'm also going to be able to do FM dumps. Initially it'll pull out the entire track as a bitstream but post processing can be incorporated subsequently.

If you want me to image anything as raw fluxes for later fiddling drop me a PM and we can work it out.

d.

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Re: Topologika Adventures

Postby billcarr2005 » Thu Jan 31, 2013 8:48 pm

leenew wrote:And if anyone has a source for ... the other Doom game from Topologika, that would be spiffing :D


Thought i'd posted this on the emulation request thread! I hadn't :P Have posted it here instead :)

danielj wrote:BTW, as part of my kryoflux meanderings I'm also going to be able to do FM dumps. Initially it'll pull out the entire track as a bitstream but post processing can be incorporated subsequently.


I've got a kryoflux too. When last i had it hooked up, the software was only capable of doing tracks with 10 x 256 sectors, which results in an SSD file. Also, there didn't seem to be so much support for a more simple approach, every dump needs to be analysed properly, which takes time. It's one reason why i decided to try transferring via FSD, which gives instant results ( subject to the actual emulation of the disk images being fixed :D )
Attachments
Topologika Return to Doom.zip
Return to Doom
(98.47 KiB) Downloaded 81 times


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