6502 development system

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pstnotpd
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6502 development system

Postby pstnotpd » Wed Apr 06, 2011 5:41 pm

Has anybody got the ssd for this one. The book is on the bbcdocs site but I cannot find an image anywhere.

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MartinB
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Re: 6502 development system

Postby MartinB » Wed Apr 06, 2011 9:05 pm

I have the original package so if an image doesn't turn up I can make one for you. Indeed, I'm spending most of my free time sending images backwards and forwards at the moment so it's no hassle :wink:

(Although I do need to dig the package out from wherever I safely stored it... :-k)

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pstnotpd
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Re: 6502 development system

Postby pstnotpd » Thu Apr 07, 2011 7:29 am

That would be much appreciated :D

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MartinB
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Re: 6502 development system

Postby MartinB » Thu Apr 07, 2011 11:12 pm

As promised 8)
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6502_Dev.zip
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pstnotpd
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Re: 6502 development system

Postby pstnotpd » Fri Apr 08, 2011 8:29 am

Thanks!

I'm gonna give ADE a go as well now that the manual has surfaced :o)

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MartinB
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Re: 6502 development system

Postby MartinB » Fri Apr 08, 2011 8:52 am

Yeah, I would coz to be honest, the Acorn system is a bit of an odd beast and is something of a handful to get to grips with. When I returned to Beeb things many moons ago I presumed that the Acorn 6502 Dev Pack would be the dog's for low-level programming but I quickly changed my mind :roll:

Personally, for Beeb host use, I settled on the Lancaster University Assembler in conjunction with Exmon II. I've completed some serioulsy complex projects and never felt limited by those tools. If anyone would like a copy of the Lancs assembler I can post that too including the full manual.

Of course, off real-Beeb, you should be looking at Rich TW's BeebASM together with Steve O's Swift - superb stuff but it I find it all gets a bit too modern for an old-school luddite like me :wink:

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pstnotpd
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Re: 6502 development system

Postby pstnotpd » Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:12 am

Interested in anything so please post away :o)

What I'm after is a way to start 65816 development on a beeb host.

I've used swift & beebasm, but being an dinosaur I like developing on the actual machine. Hence my other project to get a c compiler to run on sprow's ARM7

And if at all possible (I know it's much to ask) a scan of the acorn master C compiler manual. I can't get it compile properly from CF drive and I think I have to do some path settings.

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mga1103
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Re: 6502 development system

Postby mga1103 » Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:19 am

MartinB wrote:... If anyone would like a copy of the Lancs assembler I can post that too including the full manual...

Please do. Wouldn't mind a peek (!). Looks like you're on a roll Martin :D .
MartinB wrote:...
Of course, off real-Beeb, you should be looking at Rich TW's BeebASM together with Steve O's Swift - superb stuff but it I find it all gets a bit too modern for an old-school luddite like me :wink:


Agreed - great tools. Nice to have the option of coding on the Beeb or PC 8)

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Re: 6502 development system

Postby MartinB » Fri Apr 08, 2011 9:25 am

Excellent, so I'm not the only dinosaur then :D

I'll post the Lancs Assembler this evening, don't have it here at work but I can thoroughly recommend it =D>

I do have a complete Acornsoft C package and I'm afraid the manual is a bit of a monster but I could possibly answer specific questions providing they're in a format that a non-C programmer can understand :wink:

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pstnotpd
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Re: 6502 development system

Postby pstnotpd » Fri Apr 08, 2011 11:09 am

Ok, I'll give it a go.

The problem I'm having is that when I'm compiling it complains it cannot find the header file. I'm assuming from your overview that I have to set the path with this:

SETPATH element [,element] Specify where C looks for header files, commands etc.

SHOWPATH Print current path


But whatever I try on the CF harddrive I can't get the compiler to find the files under the h. directory. Maybe it has to do with ADFS?

And it's not clear how to setup compiling several sourcefiles and run them through the linker.

So I'm not looking for a syntax description of C, just the parts on how to generate an executable.

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MartinB
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Re: 6502 development system

Postby MartinB » Fri Apr 08, 2011 2:57 pm

Attached is the Lancs Assembler V1.6 rom image and manual. It was written specifically for the Beeb by some very clever computer types at Lancaster University (not far from me as it happens) and is straightforward to use but has many advanced features available if you need them. As it's rom based and assembles from/to disc, memory is not an issue and even very large projects can be assembled. The manual even describes where it slightly differs from the ADE assembler.

For anyone new to external_to_Basic assemblers and tentatively wanting to advance, I've also included an example source file which is actually one of the utilities for the earlier parallel version of my PC<>Beeb disc transfer system. This only uses the basics of the assembler but shows how easy it is to produce machine-code programs using an external assembler. (The example is included only to show basic source code layout for the Lancs Assembler and not for expert nit-picking :wink:)
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Lancs Assembler.zip
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mga1103
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Re: 6502 development system

Postby mga1103 » Sat Apr 09, 2011 2:31 am

Martin, This is teriffic! I only just realised tonight that I've actually used this Lancs. Assembler before, when I got my hands on a copy of Kermit. When you first mentioned it, it rang a bell, but hadn't connected it to Columbia University's Kermit, which I used extensively in the past.

I actually used this to assemble a copy of Kermit source code, which served me well over the years!

Certainly looks good & powerful, and well documented! (And there was me thinkin' it would be hard to beat ADE as a native assembly environment for the Beeb! I feel a showdown is on between ADE and Lancs.ASM (after all these years #-o ). I'm not a betting man, but even if I was, I don't think I'd be taking bets on the outcome... :roll:

Thanks for sharing =D> .
-Martin.

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MartinB
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Re: 6502 development system

Postby MartinB » Sat Apr 09, 2011 1:09 pm

other Martin wrote:...but hadn't connected it to Columbia University's Kermit
Funny you should mention this - by coincidence it's where I eventually tracked down the Lancs ASM :D. I had a copy way back when but then on my return to the faith in more recent times, I couldn't find it or the manual anywhere. However, after some web searching a few years ago I somehow ended up on CU's FTP site and found a slightly earlier version than I remembered amongst all the Kermit archives. I since found v1.60 but I'm not sure where from... :-k

Anyway, don't know if you've seen CU's Kermit Archives but if you do a 'Find on this Page' and search for BBC you'll see there's quite a few Beeb-related files available.

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paulv
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Re: 6502 development system

Postby paulv » Fri Nov 04, 2011 2:09 am

Anyway, don't know if you've seen CU's Kermit Archives but if you do a 'Find on this Page' and search for BBC you'll see there's quite a few Beeb-related files available.


I've just been taking a look and although there are files listed, they're all 0 byte and it seems have a modified datestamp of 8/8/11 so at some point between April and August, the files were lost :(

Paul

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mga1103
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Re: 6502 development system

Postby mga1103 » Fri Nov 04, 2011 2:33 am

I've got a copy of the Beeb Kermit stuff, so if you want it let me know and I'll email it to you... :wink:

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Re: 6502 development system

Postby thedark » Fri Nov 04, 2011 5:42 pm

if whe are trowing software..

is there someone who has poseidon, a teletext bbs software
i wanted it so badly on an immage.
-------------------------------------------------------------
-=[[ Music 5000 Stil Rulez On The Acorn Scene. ]]=-
-------------------------------------------------------------

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jgharston
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Re: 6502 development system

Postby jgharston » Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:49 pm

mga1103 wrote:I've got a copy of the Beeb Kermit stuff, so if you want it let me know and I'll email it to you... :wink:
And the most up to date version (v1.46) here.

Code: Select all

$ bbcbasic
PDP11 BBC BASIC IV Version 0.25
(C) Copyright J.G.Harston 1989,2005-2015
>_

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mga1103
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Re: 6502 development system

Postby mga1103 » Thu Nov 17, 2011 8:26 pm

Just for reference, that link refers to V1.50 of the Lancs Assembler. V1.60 is available from this post, fyi.

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Elminster
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Re: 6502 development system

Postby Elminster » Thu Apr 23, 2015 9:26 am

Sorry to dig up an old thread but as I have have been playing with Assembly on the Beeb I was looking at was was beyond BASIC Assembler.

One of the Beeb I have came with an original copy of ADE which looked quite good. Then I stumbled across this topic among others.

So discounting Acorn's offer give Lancs Assembler (now downloaded) and ADE. But got slightly confused with ADE. I have version one. But there appear to also be version 2 and Plus. At first I thought v2 and Plus were the same. But am I right in thinking it went v1 then v2 then the 2P Plus version? i.e 3 versions in total?

For a noob moving to a package is any of them particularly easier to learn, or it is a case of try both and see what you like?

Thanks.

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Re: 6502 development system

Postby sweh » Fri Apr 24, 2015 2:30 am

Back in the day I actually bought ADE (memory says it was at a Micro User show at Earl's Court), the assembler component without the debugger/editor. It was a lot cheaper :-) Later, at Uni, I came across the lancs assembler and found it slightly superior, so burned that to EPROM and used that instead.

To speed things up I would create a 100Kb RAMDISK, copy my files to that and assemble from RAM. Sped things up, amazingly. Had to remember to COMPACT the disk first, otherwise the openout/write routines in the asembler would abort :-)

Today I use beebasm ( http://www.retrosoftware.co.uk/wiki/index.php/BeebAsm ). I can compile stuff in a fraction of the time (1s vs minutes, even with a Ramdisk). Unless you want the full retro experience of assembling on the Beeb itself, I'd recommend beebasm.
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Stephen

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Elminster
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Re: 6502 development system

Postby Elminster » Fri Apr 24, 2015 8:23 am

Yes i have beebasm, I came across it on one of you other posts. But not done more than install it so far.

I noticed that ADE Plus says debugger and advanced editor not installed. I assume these were another 2 ROMs? I didnt come across those on the Net. Might be on the floppy I suppose not look that much at it yet.

Thanks

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Elminster
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Re: 6502 development system

Postby Elminster » Sun Apr 26, 2015 11:10 am

Beebasm has templates for notepad++ and textpad but nothing MAC like.

As I use Textwrangler (free version of BBedit) I found a 6502 language file for it and updated it slightly for Beeb ASM. (You also have to change colour of comments in preference from default grey to something else).

Language file for BBEDIT/TextWrangler attached

65C02_Beebasm.plist.zip
(1.69 KiB) Downloaded 65 times

BBC Basic.plist.zip
(1.79 KiB) Downloaded 63 times


Edit:
For those who might want to use it copy to

~/Library/Application Support/TextWrangler/Language Modules
and/or
~/Library/Application Support/BBEDIT/Language Modules

File extension is .6502 (.asm already used by 68k assembly). Should then be able to see it in the Lanugauges section in the applications preferences

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Re: 6502 development system

Postby mschmalenbach » Sun Dec 25, 2016 1:47 pm

Wonderful stuff everybody - and Merry Christmas to you all!

I'm new to the Beeb world - I never had one back in the days of the 80s - I couldn't afford it.

I now have 3 BBC Master 128s - one is a near mint condition fully refurbed unit recently acquired through ebay from Mark over at RetroClinic.com. The other 2 are in need of refurbs etc - something for the winter months, such as they are here - I'm a Brit now living in mostly sunny Arizona, having come here from the UK with my employer, Microchip Technology.

I originally got myself a Beeb as I wanted to use it as the 'host' environment for some messing around with my employer's fairly extensive range of microcontrollers (now even more extensive since we bought Atmel back in April this year).

I've been messing around with writing simple-ish compilers for the last few years, inspired by Jack Crenshaw's excellent series of articles called "Let's Build A Compiler" - I'm currently porting all of this over to the Beeb now that I have a fully working one...

Anyway, I wanted to build a reasonably competent, modern compiled language aimed at microcontrollers, and perhaps later at the 6502 and 65816, seeing as the original designer of the 6502 and 65816 is still going strong and lives not too far from my office!

My compilers all generate assembly language source code - so I need to find a reasonable assembler environment - I know Beeb Basic has one built in - I worry that the generated code from the compiler just might be too big for the built-in assembler etc...

So, any advice/tips & hints on what is an appropriate 6502 assembler environment that others would have easy access to and so could also play around with my compilers, would be useful!

Also, pointers/recommendations on compiling/assembling from/to disk or ramdisk would be appreciated - are there any standards, defacto or otherwise, among the Beeb user communities, for ramdisks - e.g using standard s/w OS calls, or standard Beeb BASIC commands/keywords?

Lots of questions, I know, and so far this feels too much like a "give me give me give me" email - apologies. In terms of me giving back, I'll happily share the sources of my simple compilers etc - perhaps some of you out there will get as much fun & learning out of playing with them as I have - it's given me a useful appreciation of why certain computer languages are the way they are - sometimes it is to make compiler writing easier... and insights too in to why some processor architectures are the way they are (MIPS & ARM come to mind, and Microchip has both of these cores and several other 32 bit ones I'd never heard of before!)

Many thanks,

Martin
==================================================
Martin 'Harry' Schmalenbach
BBC Master 128, DataCenter, and some real grey hair!
A Brit living in Arizona, because...

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tricky
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Re: 6502 development system

Postby tricky » Sun Dec 25, 2016 2:24 pm

Beebasm is probably the most commonly used and I would definitely recommend it. It supports include and disc templates.

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sweh
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Re: 6502 development system

Postby sweh » Sun Dec 25, 2016 2:27 pm

If you're looking to do "native" compilation on a Beeb, then I prefer the Lancs 65C02 assembler ROM (there's a copy at viewtopic.php?p=46331#p46331 and probably elsewhere around this site). It's a 6502 assembler ROM that will take source files and assemble them and so doesn't have the limitations of the built in BASIC assembler.

If you don't object to cross-assembly then BeebASM ( http://www.retrosoftware.co.uk/wiki/ind ... le=BeebAsm ) runs on Linux/Mac/Windows. It's my assembler of choice for creating Beeb programs, and a number of us here are active in support/enhancements. The latest proposed updates can be found at http://www.stardot.org.uk/forums/viewto ... sm#p156494
Rgds
Stephen

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Re: 6502 development system

Postby Kecske Bak » Fri Dec 30, 2016 9:21 pm

MartinB wrote:Attached is the Lancs Assembler V1.6 rom image and manual.

I was delighted to see the name Peter Vince in the manual. He's the very clever BBC Engineer who helped design the hardware and software for the test-card, amongst other things.


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